bdsm and meditation

[curiousjen]

I hope I don't hijack your thread, AS but this seemed the right place to pose a few of my questions about meditation. Its not really a D/s question, I was just curious!

Through the years I have on and off practiced "meditation" or at least my version of it. When I was a child I read an article in readers digest of all places about someone (I think Hindu) who used to, i don't know how to really describe it, like put their consciousness in different parts of my body.

So, I did what all kids do and copied them, in the earnest childlike fashion I had back then. I used to start at my toes and work up my body and i don't know if you're supposed to do it like this but I used to imagine I *was* a toe, or a kneecap and doing that kind of thing really did some trippy stuff to my head, made me feel like I was flying or it made me feel really really tiny or really huge. Sometimes I would feel like I was swaying in the breeze, like I was in a hammock, when in readlity I was laying on my firm bed. That kind of perception changing stuff. It was really fun, and it was one of the only things that would relax me enough to let me sleep. I was too young (maybe 9 or 10) or immature at least to gain any profound insights from it, but it calmed me down when few things would.

Anyway, I did this for years (when I couldn't sleep mostly) but then one day, I thought "i really want to learn about this shit properly" and went to a meditation class. It was a disaster. They were talking us through some breathing exercises and I had my eyes closed. I don't know what happened exactly or if there's a name for it, but I became hyper aware of my body and my mortality and huge waves of panic paralyzed my body and I had to open my eyes and stop. I basically felt like I was on top of a big cliff and was going to plummet. It was the opposite of the nice stuff I felt in my bedroom.
I left the room in tears and was shook up for days afterwards.

Incidentally, Owen went to this same meditation class and loved it and it switched him onto meditation and now he does it regularly. So I don't think the teacher was doing anything wrong, I think it was a me thing. But now O has forbidden me to do meditation because of the profound negative experience i had. He says my mind is too fragile to fuck with it and I should stay well alone.

So now I don't do it at all, and there is like, a gap there that I miss sometimes.

I'm really not trying to undermine Owen here, at all, but I was just wondering a few things if you guys who meditate don't mind helping me out with your opinion. Sorry if these questions are really basic but I haven't been able to find a book that gives me satifcatory answers, so if you can't be bothered to type out a long thing but know a book that could help me, that would be excellent too!

a) Were my mediative experiences (the flying cosmic feeling and ability to think myself a toe etc) normal in the first place? Is there a name for them?

b) Was my negative reaction in the class a common thing, or at least something you have heard of? I have flicked through many meditation books and non of them mention anything like happened to me. Am I majorly abnormal?

c) Do you think O is right in his assessment that meditation can be dangerous for "fragile" minds? If you don't know already, I am bipolar although I don't know whether this bears any relation or not to what happened.

d) Are there any measures we could take to let me do it safely?

Thanks guys, sorry for being so demanding but this has been bugging me for years and now I get to hang out with people who actually meditate and so I just had to ask!

Thank you

 

[Leolover711]

I hope I don't hijack your thread, AS but this seemed the right place to pose a few of my questions about meditation. Its not really a D/s question, I was just curious!

Through the years I have on and off practiced "meditation" or at least my version of it. When I was a child I read an article in readers digest of all places about someone (I think Hindu) who used to, i don't know how to really describe it, like put their consciousness in different parts of my body.

So, I did what all kids do and copied them, in the earnest childlike fashion I had back then. I used to start at my toes and work up my body and i don't know if you're supposed to do it like this but I used to imagine I *was* a toe, or a kneecap and doing that kind of thing really did some trippy stuff to my head, made me feel like I was flying or it made me feel really really tiny or really huge. Sometimes I would feel like I was swaying in the breeze, like I was in a hammock, when in readlity I was laying on my firm bed. That kind of perception changing stuff. It was really fun, and it was one of the only things that would relax me enough to let me sleep. I was too young (maybe 9 or 10) or immature at least to gain any profound insights from it, but it calmed me down when few things would.

Anyway, I did this for years (when I couldn't sleep mostly) but then one day, I thought "i really want to learn about this shit properly" and went to a meditation class. It was a disaster. They were talking us through some breathing exercises and I had my eyes closed. I don't know what happened exactly or if there's a name for it, but I became hyper aware of my body and my mortality and huge waves of panic paralyzed my body and I had to open my eyes and stop. I basically felt like I was on top of a big cliff and was going to plummet. It was the opposite of the nice stuff I felt in my bedroom.
I left the room in tears and was shook up for days afterwards.

Incidentally, Owen went to this same meditation class and loved it and it switched him onto meditation and now he does it regularly. So I don't think the teacher was doing anything wrong, I think it was a me thing. But now O has forbidden me to do meditation because of the profound negative experience i had. He says my mind is too fragile to fuck with it and I should stay well alone.

So now I don't do it at all, and there is like, a gap there that I miss sometimes.

I'm really not trying to undermine Owen here, at all, but I was just wondering a few things if you guys who meditate don't mind helping me out with your opinion. Sorry if these questions are really basic but I haven't been able to find a book that gives me satifcatory answers, so if you can't be bothered to type out a long thing but know a book that could help me, that would be excellent too!

a) Were my mediative experiences (the flying cosmic feeling and ability to think myself a toe etc) normal in the first place? Is there a name for them?
Your experiences are normal. Many are drawn to this type of expereince early in life, (Myself for one). Call it a continuation form a past life if that helps or maybe just your awareness of what it is you were created to work on in this life. It doesn't matter, its all OK>
b) Was my negative reaction in the class a common thing, or at least something you have heard of? I have flicked through many meditation books and non of them mention anything like happened to me. Am I majorly abnormal? your reaction wasn't negative, it was the natural result of having prepared yourself, albiet unknowingly thorugh your self taught meditative practices, to expereience a "higher" level of awareness. The next step in your development was through controlled breathing which is a very well understood and practiced meditative technique. WHat you expereinced many practive for years to achieve and some never do. You just happened to be a vessel that was ready and it is no fault of the teacher or mediitavie technique, no one would have expected you to be so ready. The type of expereince you had would have been a wonderful and remarkable enlightening event if you were prepared, but not being so it was naturally very frightening. When we are confronted with a "new" reality such as you were, it feels very much as if we are at a precipice or a cliff, stepping into that new reality is like leaving the safety of the solid ground we know. All of which is a long way of saying, you are fine.
c) Do you think O is right in his assessment that meditation can be dangerous for "fragile" minds? If you don't know already, I am bipolar although I don't know whether this bears any relation or not to what happened. No disrespect intended and I do not know Owen or you at all and do not want to create a riff, but certainly, meditation can NEVER be harmful. Have you actually been diagnosed with bipolar disorder? Are you on any medication for your bipolar disorder? or under a doctor's care? if so, then I highly recommned you consult your doctor. Otherwise do not worry, meditation itself causes no harm
d) Are there any measures we could take to let me do it safely? Go slow, be aware of where you are going, and if you feel that precipice coming again stop and consider what it is and represents. Make certain you are well grounded, and go forward with clear intent, or decide to stay where you are, or take a different route. But that doesn't mean you stop mediating, you just have a different goal. About being grounded, this is a very important concept. I recommend reading The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by S. Vishnudevananda. There are any number of other good books availalbe. Another is the Psychic Healing Book. Finally, find a person well practiced in mediation to be your guide.Thanks guys, sorry for being so demanding but this has been bugging me for years and now I get to hang out with people who actually meditate and so I just had to ask!

Thank you

And finally, have a pure heart and you will be well!

 

[curiousjen]

Your experiences are normal. Many are drawn to this type of expereince early in life, (Myself for one). Call it a continuation form a past life if that helps or maybe just your awareness of what it is you were created to work on in this life. It doesn't matter, its all OK

Well, thats a relief to know I guess I never thought to talk to other people in my class about this kind of thing....I guess I thought of it as something me and the Hindu guy in readers digest did, and thats about all lol

your reaction wasn't negative, it was the natural result of having prepared yourself, albiet unknowingly thorugh your self taught meditative practices, to expereience a "higher" level of awareness. The next step in your development was through controlled breathing which is a very well understood and practiced meditative technique. WHat you expereinced many practive for years to achieve and some never do. You just happened to be a vessel that was ready and it is no fault of the teacher or mediitavie technique, no one would have expected you to be so ready. The type of expereince you had would have been a wonderful and remarkable enlightening event if you were prepared, but not being so it was naturally very frightening. When we are confronted with a "new" reality such as you were, it feels very much as if we are at a precipice or a cliff, stepping into that new reality is like leaving the safety of the solid ground we know. All of which is a long way of saying, you are fine.

This is not the answer I was expecting by any means, Leolover and its taken me rather by surprise. I will have to go away and think about the implications of this some more before I give you a more thought out response, and after I have (hopefully) heard other peoples opinions as well, to get a rounded view.

No disrespect intended and I do not know Owen or you at all and do not want to create a riff, but certainly, meditation can NEVER be harmful. Have you actually been diagnosed with bipolar disorder? Are you on any medication for your bipolar disorder? or under a doctor's care? if so, then I highly recommend you consult your doctor. Otherwise do not worry, meditation itself causes no harm

With respect, Meditation can be somewhat harmful, in the sense that i was unable to function properly for a few days after my bad experience. I think we both just want to avoid something like that happening again. I am a properly diagnosed and medicated bipolar person and under the doctors care, thank you for your concern

Go slow, be aware of where you are going, and if you feel that precipice coming again stop and consider what it is and represents. Make certain you are well grounded, and go forward with clear intent, or decide to stay where you are, or take a different route. But that doesn't mean you stop mediating, you just have a different goal. About being grounded, this is a very important concept. I recommend reading The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by S. Vishnudevananda. There are any number of other good books available. Another is the Psychic Healing Book. Finally, find a person well practiced in mediation to be your guide

Thank you for such a thorough answer to all my questions, you answered clearly and concisely and at the very least have given me food for thought, at the most you have given me a seed of potent possibility

no, not that sort of seed

Thank you for your time and concern

Jen

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've got a great one that helps me when I think my head is going to explode. I've been doing this one a lot and it has pretty much taken place of older more structured chi gung-style meditations.

All I do is, with eyes wide open, become deeply aware of my bodily core. No special attention to breathing, breath counting or anything like that; I've found that to be a dead end.

Whatever emotion-state I am in will begin to manifest strongly in my body-mind unit as I hold attention on my core. Without stressing about "stopping thoughts"; I allow the emotion to overtake me, experienceing it fully but keeping all attention on the body-level manifestations, not the inevitable thought-loops.

This has never once failed to bring peace from the raging storms of psychoness that overtake me at bedtime.

 

[grace9]

Hi Jen!
This is really interesting for several reasons. First because when I was a kid maybe ten(?) and I was afraid of the dark I read or saw something about that slow meditation you talk about. I don't recall where I saw it but when I was in my room and feeling afraid I would relax my body beginning from my toes toward the top of my head to relax. It worked for years and I never made it to the top of my head. I'd fall asleep before I made it there! I had to do it less and less until one day I didn't need to anymore and would fall off to sleep on my own.

Secondly your post caught my eye because I love to meditate and was very sad to hear that you had such a negative experience. I sincerely hope you can find a way to do it that helps rather than harms.

As for your q's...I'll do my best to help from what my experience has been.

a) Were my mediative experiences (the flying cosmic feeling and ability to think myself a toe etc) normal in the first place? Is there a name for them?

I don't know if it has a name but from what I know and others I know who meditate....the flying cosmic experience is possible and many times sought.

b) Was my negative reaction in the class a common thing, or at least something you have heard of? I have flicked through many meditation books and non of them mention anything like happened to me. Am I majorly abnormal?

You are NOT abnormal no matter what your experience was. Now let me preface this with "this is only my opinion and I do not expect it to be true for all". That said, my view on meditation is that it is a SOUL experience WITHIN a body and not the other way around. This can be VERY unsettling because we identify ourselves as our bodies and when that is challenged during meditation and we find we are SO much more we can be thrown off our axis.
It is a face to face with the essence of the universe *no metaphysical babble intended here, honest*

For me it has been a vehicle to allow me to silence the body's din and allow the soul, my soul, to take over. When this happens there is an unspooling of the bodily hold on the mind. That uncoiling releases your spirit to "explore". Within that state you may cease to "see" the world and all becomes purely experiential in a multisensory way (beyond the five we normally touch our surroundings through). A "spinning out" of sorts may have occurred because this is a state you were not ready for/accustomed to nor were you actively seeking it. You are not a nut. You are human and being so, what is unfamiliar is often times scary when we find ourselves immersed in something that immense.

Another thing is if you at some point desire to go back to meditating or seek that deep a state again I highly recommend you do a lot of journaling. Find out EVERYTHING that is going on inside you. I don't think meditation is bad at all but because it is so powerful a medium of connection to spirit it helps to really "clean house" emotionally. Whatever flows through the deepest waters of yourself will come out there. Don't get me wrong...it can be very healing if you bring those things to it with awareness but if you don't what you carry inside may be unsettling to be confronted with. Your soul is the purest part of the triad of mind, body and soul. When you let your soul takeover (as in meditation) and reach for a purified state of being, it works like a cosmic house cleaner of sorts. It lifts the carpets, pulls back the stove, vacuums under the bed and pulls all the dirt out to be cleansed. Now if you are not conscious of what it may uncover it can be startling, enlightening, fearful or a relief. But it does cleanse all the muck out. I personally look forward to those times. I like having my "junk drawers emptied"...hahaha....but maybe that's just me.

So journal, journal, journal. Know yourself inside and out as well as you can. The more you know about you....(not necessarily meditation) is what will help determine your experience. I've never read a meditation book, gone to a medi class (but have meditated informally with others and done yoga and Pilates) or studied up on it in depth. All I have learned about it has been from within it. I've never felt that what my mind lacked my soul couldn't tell me.

c) Do you think O is right in his assessment that meditation can be dangerous for "fragile" minds? If you don't know already, I am bipolar although I don't know whether this bears any relation or not to what happened.

Hmmmm....I think I answered this in the above q also but I'll add...I don't think you have a fragile mind (no offense to you or Owen), I think you have a strong soul that your mind did not expect to encounter. I also don't believe IMHO that anything that affects the mind or body has a bearing on the soul's ability to express or encounter itself. You may just need to be aware of what your triggers emotionally might be and have an awareness of them should they come up when you meditate.

d) Are there any measures we could take to let me do it safely?

How about going back to the way you did it happily before? That seemed to work fine. Also, in group atmospheres...there seems to be a heightened intensity because of the shared experience. I had some very frightened states in D/s after because I went so deep with my partner it threw me. I would be a mess within minutes or days after some of our times together.
But I did get over it....it took a bit...but I did.
*Please see my previous post on this thread to shy_slave about deep meditation and the presence of another in D/s*

I hope some of this helps you, Jen. I also hope it makes sense because sometimes I can go on and feel like I'm sharing something deep....and it only sounds like my ass sprouted a mouth, LOL.

Good luck,
Gracie~