Battle of Britain Day - and oh look no fucking yanks!
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hobbit.
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excellent point.
Rightguide
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Plenty of Yanks were harmed saving you from the jaw torturing experience of learning to speak German.
ShagTimes
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Plenty of Yanks were harmed saving you from the jaw torturing experience of learning to speak German.
Had Britain fallen in the battle of Britain both Britain and America would have been speaking German. With Britain out of the war Germany would have had more resources to throw at America and they would have been fucked.
Saintdragonslayer
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Plenty of Yanks were harmed saving you from the jaw torturing experience of learning to speak German.
And all decent Brits are thankful for their sacrifice.
The point is: Britain falls in 1940 = No D Day in 1944 = Germany potentially opening up a second front on the U.S. armed with jet fighter aircraft and the Atomic bomb.
Think about it...
Rightguide
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Please, if it wasn't for FDR's Lend-Lease program in 1940 Britain wouldn't have survived. You were flat broke and couldn't afford to pay, so threading the needle of American law, the Neutrality Act, American public, and political opinion to the contrary, FDR decided on the Lend Lease Program to help Great Britain. You wouldn't have got much further without it.
Sean
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And we paid back every penny.
The Battle of Britain was Hitler's first defeat and stopped the immediate prospect of invasion, especially after the bombing of the German invasion barges lined up ready.
Lease-Lend helped Britain to survive particularly with the Atlantic convoys. However the USA was firmly neutral militarily.
Hitler then turned his attention to Russia, which had always been his primary objective. The UK was a sideshow to him. His army reached Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad by the time Japan attacked Pearl Harbour.
Hitler declared war on the USA to show support for Japan in a move that is still inexplicable. If it hadn't been for that act of suicide America may well have fought a limited war against Japan and left Germany to defeat Russia and then return to the UK.
All Brits that I know acknowledge that the position would have been desperate without the support of the USA.
Lease-Lend helped Britain to survive particularly with the Atlantic convoys. However the USA was firmly neutral militarily.
Hitler then turned his attention to Russia, which had always been his primary objective. The UK was a sideshow to him. His army reached Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad by the time Japan attacked Pearl Harbour.
Hitler declared war on the USA to show support for Japan in a move that is still inexplicable. If it hadn't been for that act of suicide America may well have fought a limited war against Japan and left Germany to defeat Russia and then return to the UK.
All Brits that I know acknowledge that the position would have been desperate without the support of the USA.
Rightguide
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An unlikely scenario. They declared war on us in 1941, four days after Pearl harbor. Those were grim times for all.
Without US involvement early on Europe would have been lost to Germany, but it would be a hell of a long stretch for them to develop the logistical ability to attack the American mainland, for the same reasons the Japanese came to that conclusion.
Without the military and logistical drain of the war in Europe we would have crushed the Japanese in two years. In 6 months we had re-floated the majority of the fleet and in with a year had begun the largest ship aircraft building capability in history. We went from 790 ships in December 1941 to 6,768 ships by August 1945. In 1939, total aircraft production for the US military was less than 3,000 planes. By the end of the war, America produced 300,000 planes and before it was over we had twelve million men under arms the biggest amphibious force and fleets in the world and an industrial capability dwarfing anything in Europe or beyond. WWII was an industrial war without historical precedent. We would have smothered the Germans as well.
oggbashan
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Sorry, Hobbit. Some of the few were American volunteers (11) amd 1 died:
http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co.uk/nationalities/nationalities.htm
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/resear...-battle-of-britain/battle-of-the-nations.aspx
Paul_Chance
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Thanks Ogg. I was going to point that out. Additionally, some of the Canadian pilots were also American's along with ground personnel - it was easier for Americans to cross the border to Canada and volunteer there.
None of which lessens in any way the men whose courage we can only imagine, regardless of nationality.
oggbashan
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Thanks. And we owe a lot to the Poles and the Czechs.
The Poles particularly were fucking mad - trying to avenge their country. Their main tactic, not recommended by the RAF, was to attack German planes head-on in a game of chicken.
Rightguide
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That's not what I'm saying, or even desire for that matter. It was a battle against evil that had to be confronted. Not referring to you but there is a lot of anti-Americanism these days diminishing America's contribution to the outcome of the war in Europe that needs to be confronted as well. If we hadn't entered the war Europe would be a much different place today and if Britain hadn't got involved in war with the Germans, even after the Battle of Britain, the British Empire would have existed on through the 20th Century. After all Hitler never had an amphibious force of the kind needed to invade and conquer Britain.
DeYaKen
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Plenty of Yanks were harmed saving you from the jaw torturing experience of learning to speak German.
The battle of Britain started on 10th July 1940 and ended 31st of October 1940. The USA didn't join the war until December 1941 Log after the Battle of Britain was already won. Operation Sealion ( the planned invasion of Britain) was scrapped at the end of September 1940. The tide of the war shifted when Germany turned on their ally Russia in June 1941.
US involvement most definitely shortened the war and I'm sure everyone is grateful for that, but the idea that they saved Britain from being overun is historically inaccurate.
oggbashan
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Maybe, but 11 Americans fought in the Battle of Britain.
Rightguide
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I don't recall saying anything much different. My point was Britain needed the lend lease program, before America entered the war. Britain was pretty much flat broke in 1941 the British Expeditionary Force lost 68,000 men during the French campaign, it abandoned much of its military hardware after the debacle at Dunkirk, and was pretty much unable to continue its war effort.
stickygirl
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But hey - we're all friends now, we have assholes in charge, both nations have intelligence sharing networks that both assholes completely ignore. Just like the good old days.
ETA here's the American pilot, Billy Fiske but he wasn't the only one
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Pilot_Officer_Billy_Fiske.jpg
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colddiesel
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The America/UK argument misses the fundamental point - that our great and glorious allies the USSR won WWII - everything else was a sideshow in comparison.
America on the other hand very clearly won the peace, the whole of Europe plus Japan was in hock up to their eyebrows. The US$ established a world hegemony which has lasted for 75years. That is starting to break down slowly and as this economic empire crumbles we are in for some interesting times.
America on the other hand very clearly won the peace, the whole of Europe plus Japan was in hock up to their eyebrows. The US$ established a world hegemony which has lasted for 75years. That is starting to break down slowly and as this economic empire crumbles we are in for some interesting times.
Rightguide
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No they didn't, but they couldn't have done what they did without the very same American Lend Lease program (11.3 billion. 194.5 billion in today's Dollars) that armed them against the Nazis.
Rightguide
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The Germans as a nation and as a people were utterly destroyed as was much of Europe in WWII. It destroyed much of Britain and it's economy as well. It was a human disaster on a scale never before seen in history.
DeYaKen
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So did a whole lot of Poles, West Indians and Canadians and we have rewarded them by shutting their descendants out of the country.
DeYaKen
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Which the UK paid back in full The last payment was made in 1998. The Brittish endured food rationing right up to 1954 so that Britain could maintain it's repayments.
Lease lend was not enacted until March 1941. Six months after the Battle of Britain had been won so in fact it had no effect on the result. It did have some effect in maintaining food and fuel supplies by providing ships for the North Atlantic convoys.
Churchill said we owed the success to "The Few" that wasn't true. The Pilots were the glamorous end of a system which worked extremely well. If we hadn't had RADAR the RAF would not have had early warning to enable them to be ready and waiting for the enemy planes. If women pilots hadn't ferried planes to the airbases we wouldn't have had enough combat pilots. Probably most important, if the factories (mainly staffed by women) had not been able to replace a Spitfire within three days when it took six weeks to replace an Me 109. we would have lost and would have resorted to fighting them on the beaches.
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