Bad news for us free-porn hounds, kiddies

KillerMuffin

Seraphically Disinclined
Joined
Jul 29, 2000
Posts
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http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=952266

What this means to us, I don't know.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Monday that a federal law that makes it a crime to put on the Internet sexually explicit material that can be viewed by minors was not unconstitutional just because it relied on community standards.

By an 8-1 vote, the justices said a U.S. appeals court was wrong in barring enforcement of the law on constitutional free-speech grounds because it relied on community standards to identify online pictures and writings harmful to minors.

Justice Clarence Thomas wrote for the majority that reliance on community standards to identify material harmful to minors does not by itself render the law too broad under the First Amendment.

The decision involved a closely watched case that pitted free-speech rights against efforts by Congress to regulate in cyberspace by keeping minors away from online pornography.

Still, Thomas said the government remained barred from enforcing the law as a lower court now should consider whether it was unconstitutionally vague, too broad for other reasons or fails to survive strict scrutiny.

The Child Online Protection Act, adopted by Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton in 1998, requires commercial Web site operators to use credit cards or adult access systems before allowing Internet users to view material deemed harmful to minors.

The law calls for maximum criminal penalties of six months in jail and $50,000 in fines for first-time offenders, and additional fines for repeat violators.

The law has never been enforced. It immediately was challenged on First Amendment grounds by the American Civil Liberties Union and 17 groups and business, including online magazine publishers and booksellers.

Congress came up with the law in a new effort to shield minors from Internet pornography after the Supreme Court in 1997 struck down the Communications Decency Act that had been adopted the previous year.

A federal judge issued a preliminary injunction blocking enforcement of the 1998 law, saying Web site operators had no effective way of screening out minors.

The appeals court upheld the injunction. It specifically objected to how the law defined harmful as based on the average person in applying "contemporary community standards" and said it would effectively force all speakers on the Web to abide by the "most puritan" standards.

Thomas said use of community standards passes constitutional muster, saying the law defines harmful material in a way similar to the definition of obscenity. He said the law applies to "significantly less material" that the 1996 law.

Thomas said the scope of the ruling was "quite limited."

In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens said community standards would not work in cyberspace. He said "the community that wishes to live without certain material not only rids itself, but the entire Internet of the offending speech."

He said speech is effectively prohibited whenever the least tolerant communities find it harmful to minors.

Stevens expressed concern the law could cover advertisements, online magazines, bulletin boards, chat rooms, stock photo galleries, Web diaries and a variety of illustrations encompassing a vast number of messages.

*emphasis added
 
DannyBoyUK said:
Roll on the increase in off-shore sites !


Yep. A lot of stuff on the internet at present will just be moved to Web Hosting companies in other countries.

I know mine will.

ppman
 
What most of us criminal-defence lawyers make on legal aid (the UK equivalent of public defender) is outweighed by subscriptions to sites such as those that are now being outlawed

<s>
 
DannyBoyUK said:
What most of us criminal-defence lawyers make on legal aid (the UK equivalent of public defender) is outweighed by subscriptions to sites such as those that are now being outlawed

<s>

Legal aid? The cost of that rockets every year, you must be raking it in:D
 
The thing about this law I don't understand is...

putting restrictions on the sites doesn't stop anyone viewing them. Especially if they originate outside of the US.

So what's the next step in the 'land of the free' a check by law enforcement agencies on what you all view?

Now that's scary...

Scary and dangerous...

ppman
 
In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens said community standards would not work in cyberspace. He said "the community that wishes to live without certain material not only rids itself, but the entire Internet of the offending speech."

He said speech is effectively prohibited whenever the least tolerant communities find it harmful to minors.

Stevens expressed concern the law could cover advertisements, online magazines, bulletin boards, chat rooms, stock photo galleries, Web diaries and a variety of illustrations encompassing a vast number of messages.


Interesting that the oldest member of the Court is the only one who seems to have the faintest idea of how the Internet works.
 
You guys are missing the bigger picture here. One state on the east coast - New Jersey, maybe? - already has a law that requires ISPs to block certain types of material to all surfers one they're notified of that material.

If this holds up, it is only a matter of time before there is a law that requires all US ISPs to block access to "illegal" websites. Some states are already working on the laws, and I'm sure the Federal government isn't far behind.

When your ISP blocks access to any site Ashcroft thinks is offensive, it doesn't matter where it's hosted - the US or abroad. It's still blocked.

It's early for me, so I still haven't read the full court decision. I'd like to know how many of the Supreme Court justices have ever even used the Internet. The idea that kids in some small Utah town being offended by a website can cause that website operator to go to jail is fucking ridiculous.

More later.
 
And now a musical moment from Tom Lehrer:

Smut!

Give me smut and nothing but!
A dirty novel I can't shut
If it's uncut
or unsubt(le)

I never quibbled
if it was ribald
I would devour
where others merely nibbled

As the judge the remarked the day he acquitted my Aunt Hortance,
To be smut it must be utt-erly without redeeming social importance

Ooooooor
The graphic pictures I adoooore...
Indecent magazines galoooore
I like them more
if they're hardcooooore

Bring on the obscene movies
posters
murals
neckties
samplers
stain glass windows
anything...

More more I'm still not satisfied

Stories of totures used by debauchers wicked, liscentious and vile
Make me smile :)
Novels that pander
to my taste for candor
give me a pleasure sublime
(Let's face it I love slime)

Oh books can be indecent books though recent books are bolder,
for filth I'm glad to say is in the mind of the beholder
when correctly viewed
everything is lewd
I could tell you things about Peter Pan
and the Wizard of Oz- There's a dirty old man!

I thrill
to any book like Fanny Hill
and I suppose I always will
if it is swill
and really fil-thy.

Who needs a hobby,
like tennis or filatery?
I've got a hobby- rereading Lady Chatterly

But now they try to take it all away from us so make take a stand and hand in hand fight for freedom of the press in other words-
smut. (I love it)
Ah the adventures of a slut
oh I'm a market they can't glut
I don't know what
compares with smut
hip hip hooray (Let's hear it for the Supreme Court)
Don't let them take it Awaaaaay...
 
Wrong Element said:
Interesting that the oldest member of the Court is the only one who seems to have the faintest idea of how the Internet works.

And that may well have a lot to do with unworkable laws like this being passed.

:)
 
This is bullshit. They will never make this stick. Trust me. And I will put every last effort into making sure it doesn't. Doesn't congress have more pressing issues than to worry about children looking at dirty pictures?

Don't nobody better take away my porn.
 
I wanted to say something intelligent on this thread, but realized I have no real capacity.
 
I wonder how long it will be before we have lost the right to go to the bathroom without our government's permission.

I also wonder how long it's going to take people to figure out that you're never going to be able to make this sort of stupid shit work.
 
Currently the injunction against enforcement is still in place, if I'm reading it right, and they case is going back to the lower court to see if they can find something else wrong with it for the justices to rule against.

Years of wondering what the fuck still in the future.

*sigh*
 
Big Brother

It never ceases to amaze me how federal government through legislation, court rulings and executive orders continues to erode all of our constitutional rights. It is a sad day when the US, the most free country in history, starts walking down the path of big brother.
 
There is some hope. The Justices are basically saying that, while they couldn't shoot the law down on this ground, they will give the lower courts the ability to resubmit it. I think. I'm not sure about the complete legalese, but I think they're basically saying that they want to, but there isn't sufficent ground on this argument.
 
KillerMuffin said:
Currently the injunction against enforcement is still in place, if I'm reading it right, and they case is going back to the lower court to see if they can find something else wrong with it for the justices to rule against.

Years of wondering what the fuck still in the future.

*sigh*

That's pretty much how I understood the court's action from the reports I've heard so far. Basically, as NPR put it, the court punted. It seems like they would just like the issue to go away, so they dumped it back on the lower court, This issue creates a real quandary for the majority of the justices, who are stuck between their belief in a puritanical personal morality and their ideology of limted government.
 
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