Babies Bounce

[slyc_willie]

Am I wrong?

Okay, so I listen to Dennis Miller's syndicated AM talk show every night. It's an interesting show, full of his usual wit and commentary. I didn't know Miller was as conservative as he is, though he does seem to have some liberal views.

Anyway, right now, Miller has the author of "Fifty Rules Your Child Never Learned In School." One of the main themese of the book, apparently, is that parents coddle their kids too much, protecting them from things that will ultimately help them. Such as letting the tykes expose themselves to germs, playground ridicule, and the like.

I gotta say, the man makes sense. So, what do you think? Do modern parents protect their children too much?

 

[lisa123414]

Willie - that is such a hard question!!! As parents, we protect our kids from much, from many things which our parents did not think we needed protection. Who is to say, for a particular kid, how much is too much? This is not a discussion that has anything like an absolute. You may protect your daughter from something which I am unable, or unwilling, to protect my son. They may both be fine. Or not.

The above sounds crazy, I know....what can I say I have four, incredibly individual children. Good luck with your quest, I will be interested in hearing the other parents chime in.

 

[starrkers]

Yes.
This obsession with cleanliness and no germs (all these cleaning products that promise a germ free home...) is BS.
Dirty faces, skinned knees, tree climbing (oh, but they might fall and hurt themselves!) is all part of childhood, or it should be. No dirt and no bark missing, means no exercise in my mind, and that's awful.

Kids occasionally get sick. It's part of life. The more you shield them from little bugs, the more likely a big one will carry them off. The way I figure it, the little bugs are exercise for the immune system - teaches it how to fight. Then, when a big bug comes along, the immune system knows what it's doing.
(OK, that's seriously oversimplistic, but you get my drift - I hope).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Am I wrong?

Okay, so I listen to Dennis Miller's syndicated AM talk show every night. It's an interesting show, full of his usual wit and commentary. I didn't know Miller was as conservative as he is, though he does seem to have some liberal views.

Anyway, right now, Miller has the author of "Fifty Rules Your Child Never Learned In School." One of the main themese of the book, apparently, is that parents coddle their kids too much, protecting them from things that will ultimately help them. Such as letting the tykes expose themselves to germs, playground ridicule, and the like.

I gotta say, the man makes sense. So, what do you think? Do modern parents protect their children too much?

Yes.

My fellow parents kept spotless kitchens, taught their children to never, ever share cups, washed hands with antibacterial soaps, threw out leftovers that were more than three days old-- I never used antibacterial soaps, kept a clean but not antiseptic kitchen, let my kids share food, let them get dirty, let them eat old food-- within reason) Three times during their elementary years, salmonella hit the cafeteria. My kids are, apparently, extremely resistant to salmonella.

Another one-- My son was born in Chiago. I wrapped him up reasonably well, but you could always see his shape-- face and legs and arms. He was exposed to cool air. He is a "warm" person now-- higher proportion of "brown fat cells" which can only be gained by exposure to cold in early childhood.

There are other areas were I can see that I coddled them more than perhaps I should have-- but time will tell. They are pretty resilient young people.

 

[tickledkitty]

I saw a TV show a while back about how bad it is that we disinfect everything now. It said that our kids' bodies aren't building up antibodies to germs because of it, and it's also causing an increase in autoimmune diseases.

 

[slyc_willie]

Yes.
This obsession with cleanliness and no germs (all these cleaning products that promise a germ free home...) is BS.
Dirty faces, skinned knees, tree climbing (oh, but they might fall and hurt themselves!) is all part of childhood, or it should be. No dirt and no bark missing, means no exercise in my mind, and that's awful.

Kids occasionally get sick. It's part of life. The more you shield them from little bugs, the more likely a big one will carry them off. The way I figure it, the little bugs are exercise for the immune system - teaches it how to fight. Then, when a big bug comes along, the immune system knows what it's doing.
(OK, that's seriously oversimplistic, but you get my drift - I hope).

Actually, that's exactly what I was thinking. As a kid, I got hurt all the damn time. I got sick now and then. It was never a big deal. Sure, if I contracted a serious illness, my parents would take me to the ER. But I never did. And I think a big part of that was being exposed to the normal range of viruses that filter through the air on a daily basis.

 

[Liar]

I saw a TV show a while back about how bad it is that we disinfect everything now. It said that our kids' bodies aren't building up antibodies to germs because of it, and it's also causing an increase in autoimmune diseases.

When I was 8-ish, I started to develop some asthma-related allergies. My parents took me to the doctor who listened to my lungs and took a blood sample. A week later he met with my parents again and told them to stop cleaning my room so damn often. And especially not change my bedsheets every other day. Apparently I was missing out on all kinds of cozy dust particles and dead mites that I needed to get used to while I slept at night.

So they stopped being so god damn tidy, and a year later, my problems were gone.

 

[glynndah]

My husband's family was in the military as he was growing up and they got shots (antibiotics, I presume) for everything. I, on the other hand, grew up in a family where I never, ever saw the doctor. He now catches every little big that goes around and is usually quite sick. I never catch anything and rarely get sick.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

My gramma used to say, "You have to eat a peck of dirt before you can die." A bit ambiguous, but I think the sense was what Slyc described in the OP. Charles Sykes had a pretty slick column on this in the Journal last week:

Adult Supervision
By CHARLES SYKES
November 8, 2007

One of the classic books on college pranks is memorably titled, "If At All Possible, Involve a Cow." These days we probably need to add, "And Bring a Lawyer."

The Christian Science Monitor reports that colleges across the country now require permits or permission slips for undergraduate pranks. This was perhaps inevitable: First they came for dodgeball. Then tag. How long could something as spontaneous and fun as the prank escape?

Educational administrators justify the new prank rules by invoking 9/11, though most college pranks have as much to do with terrorism as a greased pig in the hallway has to do with the invasion of Poland. But the war on spontaneity continues.

In Cincinnati, the nannies who run the Little League have decided to ban chatter on the diamond. The league president explained: "If you're saying, 'Swing, batter,' and this poor little kid is swinging at everything, he feels bad and maybe he turns to the catcher and gets mad. Honest to gosh, I didn't have any trouble doing this."

A Colorado Springs elementary school is one of the latest to ban tag on its playground. Running will still be allowed as long as there is no chasing. The ban wasn't the idea of overprotective educrats -- it was the result rather of children and their parents who "complained that they'd been chased or harassed against their will." Other schools have already banned swings, merry-go-rounds, teeter-totters, crawl tubes, sandboxes and even hugs.

At Mascoutah Middle School in Illinois, 13-year-old Megan Coulter was recently given detention for hugging two friends goodbye before the weekend -- a violation of the school's ban on "public displays of affection." One California school district worried about "bullying, violence, self-esteem and lawsuits" also banned tag, cops and robbers, touch football and every other activity that involved "bodily contact."

In some schools free play has been replaced by organized relay races and adult-supervised activities, in order to protect children from spontaneous outbreaks of creativity. This makes sense to the sort of person who thinks children must at all costs be protected from the scrapes of life and insulated from the prospect of having to deal with social interactions or disappointment.

Childhood -- or at least the fun part -- is falling victim to a potent stew of psychobabble, litigation and over-wrought over protectiveness. In North Carolina principals in at least eight schools, worried about how school children will cope with scorching summer heat, want to raise thousands of dollars to erect large canopies and shelters over playgrounds."

If that's not enough reason to keep kids inside, ABC News recently reported that there are actually germs in playgrounds where (God help us) . . . children play. Out of 60 playgrounds tests, ABC's exposé discovered, "59.had evidence of bacteria or mold that could make children sick, tests showed."

News flash for ABC: Check out your own lunch room; or any place kids play. Where there are children, there are germs. That's why our moms made us wash our hands before dinner.

But if we are already setting up canopies on playgrounds and swabbing jungle-gyms for bacteria, can actual bubble-wrap be far behind?

We're already paying the price for the epidemic of overprotectiveness. Congress has appropriated more than $600 million to encourage kids to walk or bike to school. An entire generation of kids now rides in minivans to schools where they aren't allowed to chase one another, swing on swings or play dodgeball. And we wonder why we have an obesity problem.

The Duke of Wellington once said (perhaps apocryphally) that "the Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton" -- reflecting his view that competitive sports shape a nation's character. At this point we had better hope that's not true about America, unless we plan on going to war against an enemy who also values non-competitive, risk-free, self-esteem-building play activities for its young.

Mr. Sykes is the author, most recently, of "50 Rules Kids Won't Learn in School" (St. Martins, 2007).

 

[iceburg1]

definitely

I certainly think that our kids living in a way to clean society. With the average cleaning cupboard full of domestic napalm it is now wonder that we are starting to see the emergence of 'superbugs'. Can't wait for these bugs to actually get bigger as well ala Startroopers !!

 

[slyc_willie]

So where's the middle ground? How much should parents clean, and to what lengths should they let kids get dirty?

there was a time in which I was expecting a child to come into this world, and my head was full of conflicting ideas regarding how to care for him. How often to bathe? How often to change the down in the crib?

At work, I see a lot of little kids, many of whom have a pacifier in their mouth. Often, the pacifier pops out, hits the ground, and my first instinct is to take the damn thing to the back and wash it off. What I've found interesting is that the Mexicans (the rich ones who come here for shopping) don't bother with cleaning the pacifier. They just wipe it with their fingers and pop it back in. It's the locals who insist on having it washed.

I see more sick local kids than I do Mexicans.

 

[slyc_willie]

Thanks for the name, Roxy, I lost it during the interview and subsequent chatting.

I agree that America has become way too protective in certain things. One of the joys of childhood lies within the joyless aspects: getting hurt, getting sick, etc. I think too many parents get freaked out when Junior starts bawling that they feel a need to block him from every litle thing that might cause him harm.

Spraying Lysol on every surface. Forbidding the sharing of drinks and food with other kids. No touching. No hitting. No kissing or hugging.

Yes, sterilize everything in a child's environment. Just don't be surprised when they grow up frail and sickly and afraid of personal contact.

 

[starrkers]

How the hell did humanity survive before disinfectant?

Baby's gear needs to be washed when it's dirty - crib sheets don't usually last too long before they get weeed/crapped or thrown up on anyway!

 

[slyc_willie]

How the hell did humanity survive before disinfectant?

Baby's gear needs to be washed when it's dirty - crib sheets don't usually last too long before they get weeed/crapped or thrown up on anyway!

Lol. Good point, Starr.

Ten thousand years ago, we were being born in caves and crappy little huts, and we still made it this far.

It's only Capitlaism that makes many of us think we simply need to keep everything pristine. All those commercials, with their compelling images . . . .

 

[amicus]

Good god will wonders never cease? A thread where everyone pretty much agrees and I do too, gotta bookmark this.

I was raised a farm boy, our own cow, drank raw, unpasteurized milk, grew our own vegetables, raised and butchered our own meat and drank well water straight from the earth.

Had no call to visit a doctor for over fifty years.

Amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

Good god will wonders never cease? A thread where everyone pretty much agrees and I do too, gotta bookmark this.

I was raised a farm boy, our own cow, drank raw, unpasteurized milk, grew our own vegetables, raised and butchered our own meat and drank well water straight from the earth.

Had no call to visit a doctor for over fifty years.

Amicus...

You know, buddy, I was thinking the same thing.

Funny what topics become universal equalizers, huh?

 

[tickledkitty]

The worst thing is that hand sanitizer stuff. It kills everything, even the good bacteria on your skin. I've also heard that antibacterial soap is not good for the same reason and that any type of regular soap cleans your hands sufficiently.

 

[iceburg1]

The worst thing is that hand sanitizer stuff. It kills everything, even the good bacteria on your skin. I've also heard that antibacterial soap is not good for the same reason and that any type of regular soap cleans your hands sufficiently.

Exactly what I tried to say before !! indiscriminate killing of all bacteria is a bad thing !!

 

[Weird Harold]

By CHARLES SYKES
...
Childhood -- or at least the fun part -- is falling victim to a potent stew of psychobabble, litigation and over-wrought over protectiveness. In North Carolina principals in at least eight schools, worried about how school children will cope with scorching summer heat, want to raise thousands of dollars to erect large canopies and shelters over playgrounds."
...

I agree with the basic principle that children are over-protected, but Playground Safety improvements over the fifty years or so since I started going to playgrounds are for the most part good changes that needed to happen -- although I do regret the decline of the "merry-go-round" over that time span.

Rubber playgrounds (to prevent scrapes with gravel embedded in them and broken bones,) with sunshades (to prevent third degree burns from sun-heated metal components,) don't protect children from potentially immune boosting exposures, they protect them from preventable disfiguration and scarring.

Other than minimizing the risks of permanent damage, children should be Playground (environment) proofed instead of trying to child-proof the playground (environment.)

For best results, move parents and children to national forest or other primitive campgrounds two or three days out of every seven so that hiking nature trails and swimming in natural bodies of water can offset some of the effects of video games and television and expose their immune systems to the occasional antibody-building challenge.

 

[slyc_willie]

The worst thing is that hand sanitizer stuff. It kills everything, even the good bacteria on your skin. I've also heard that antibacterial soap is not good for the same reason and that any type of regular soap cleans your hands sufficiently.

We have the alcohol-based stuff at work. I never use it, and tell other people not to. A few seconds of hot water and some soap, and that's it. Intuitively, the idea of washing your hands for thirty seconds seems counter-productive. There are germas and bugs we are meant to carry around.

 

[fifty5]

I'm with everyone else here - literally eating shit (not washing hands after having a dump and wiping off) ain't a good idea - and in the operating theatre maximum cleanliness is too - but outside those extremes, "eating a peck of dirt" seems, according to what I've read, not bad at all.

 

[Weird Harold]

but outside those extremes, "eating a peck of dirt" seems, according to what I've read, not bad at all.

I was in first or second grade when I first heard that bit of trivia and decided that I'd get that peck of dirt down early in life and not have to worry about it when I got old...

My parents were not amused when I explained why I was eating small dirt clods and sucking on dirty pebbles all the time.

 

[slyc_willie]

I was in first or second grade when I first heard that bit of trivia and decided that I'd get that peck of dirt down early in life and not have to worry about it when I got old...

My parents were not amused when I explained why I was eating small dirt clods and sucking on dirty pebbles all the time.

And, how many times have you been sick?

 

[Weird Harold]

And, how many times have you been sick?

Really sick or just thought I was sick?

I've been too sick to go to work about a dozen times in fifty eight and a half years. I've twice had fevers of over 105F (only once as an adult) and been hospitialized three days for a blocked artery to my left arm just last April.

I certainly didn't get sick from eating dirt as a child, but I can't say that I was any less sickly than my peers because of it either.

PS: I think My Uncle letting me read my comic book and ride on the back step of the manure spreader did more for my immune system than eating dirt did. My mom and aunt certainly contibuted to my education in "bad words" over that incident.

 

[slyc_willie]

Really sick or just thought I was sick?

I've been too sick to go to work about a dozen times in fifty eight and a half years. I've twice had fevers of over 105F (only once as an adult) and been hospitialized three days for a blocked artery to my left arm just last April.

I certainly didn't get sick from eating dirt as a child, but I can't say that I was any less sickly than my peers because of it either.

PS: I think My Uncle letting me read my comic book and ride on the back step of the manure spreader did more for my immune system than eating dirt did. My mom and aunt certainly contibuted to my education in "bad words" over that incident.

I was always a helthy kid growing up. Hell, no matter what I was exposed, until my thirties, I always came away unscathed. And then, I suppose, it all caught up with me.

Maybe there's a point at which uprbringing fails before the natural decomposition of age.