Awakening Eden -- Feedback pls.

[269Thalia]

Heya - Posted Ch 1 of a new F/d incest piece, Awakening Eden, which I try to center on character development while keeping the conflicted feelings of father and daughter in focus. (As in, it can't stay exciting if it stops being taboo.) The first of 6 chapters, I'd like to know what you guys think.

http://www.literotica.com/s/awakening-eden-ch-01

Thanks,

Thalia

 

[PacoFear]

A nice leisurely narrative

Hi Thalia,

I read your chapter and thought it was entertaining. Your kink is outside of my wheelhouse, but I thought your take on it was interesting.

For what it's worth, it looked like solid work to me. You give us rich characters, each with their own perspective and you set a good scene. I did crave a little more dialogue at points, if only to hear them voice their own perspectives, but that's minor and a personal preference.

As far as feedback goes, two quirks stuck out to me and I'll flag them for you if only to let you know they did stick out:

(1) Repeating sentence structure: on my read, you're using a lot of introductory clauses, particularly on the first page. Nearly half the paragraphs lead off that way.

(2) Genital jargon: "dork" and "hole/girl-hole." These word choices seemed out of step with the rest of the story, by which I mean both your other diction and the pains you took to sketch out the educated, cultured characters.

All in all, solid work. I'd read the next chapter and that's what counts, right?

Cheers,

PacoFear

 

[269Thalia]

Ahhh... thank you Paco

Hey I appreciate your thoughtful observations... considering the solid and entertaining writer you are this is encouragement indeed.

A note on the gutter lingo - the more intense the sex gets, the more it gets grotty, more animal, a desperate longing for the most basic connection possible. The language becomes less articulate, as do the sounds the characters make. That's what I'm trying to achieve with the dork and girl-hole refs. Is there another way I could do that?

Thanks so much for your thoughtful read, Paco.

Yours, Thal

 

[PacoFear]

Flattery will get you everywhere. So says my wife, anyway.

A note on the gutter lingo - the more intense the sex gets, the more it gets grotty, more animal, a desperate longing for the most basic connection possible. The language becomes less articulate, as do the sounds the characters make. That's what I'm trying to achieve with the dork and girl-hole refs. Is there another way I could do that?

I think this is more true when the narration is from first person or if the language is being presented as dialogue. Still, I agree with your instinct to drop to more basic language if only for the erotic value. If you'd adhered to the diction from the rest of the story, I'd expect you to have used terms like "manhood", "priapus", or "quivering mound." None would be especially erotic. It might be a regional dialect thing, but "dork" struck me as childish, the sort of word I used to sling around with my friends in my tween years, like "dingus" or "salami." "Girl-hole" had the same effect.

It's your story, but when I'm in doubt I come back to the tried and true "cock." For the daughter, based on your scene, I'd skip over reference to her genitals at some points and simply describe, graphically, the way he thrusts "into her." A vagina is a vagina; for the readers of this genre, it's the fact that the woman beneath him is his daughter that's tantalizing.

Pick what's good to your ear, though. I don't pretend to be delivering the gospel on naughty parts.

-PF

 

[269Thalia]

Great guidance, Paco

No kidding that was very helpful. I de-dorked chapter 1 and submitted it as an edit. After your notes I'm thinking to be specific about sex parts at the beginning of the passage, and more general as the heat builds up. You are right, readers already know there's a wet pussy and hard cock in the picture, so general refs are sufficient and less wordy.

Exactly the kind of observation I am lookng for.

Thanks,

Thal

~~ Hope they will let me stay a "Virgin" ~~

 

[PacoFear]

Awww shucks, thanks

Awww shucks, thanks.

 

[sad_molly]

Heya - Posted Ch 1 of a new F/d incest piece, Awakening Eden, which I try to center on character development while keeping the conflicted feelings of father and daughter in focus. (As in, it can't stay exciting if it stops being taboo.) The first of 6 chapters, I'd like to know what you guys think.

http://www.literotica.com/s/awakening-eden-ch-01

Thanks,

Thalia

I like it; as well as the handcuffs in the photo!!

Molly

 

[kuellar]

Hi Thalia,

I had a look at this chapter - I think you've generally done a good job with the writing, and with the focus on the characters. You've got some really beautiful descriptions, and you're often able to set a scene with just a few words, which is an admirable talent

There are some slight oddities that stood out for me, however:
- Some of the descriptions don't quite seem to fit with the tone of the scene - for example, Elaine's coming home for the summer, to a house that she grew up in but that her stepmother is a moving out of; it's an emotional time, and then there's a description of the "nearly-naked feeling" of her leggings with stretchy fabric that "outlines her bottom". Or, "Half an hour ago Elaine and stepmom Ronnie were hugging" - that sounds a bit like a news headline, "stepmom Ronnie".
- There are some unnecessary (to my mind) elaborations here and there, eg. "Would he smell her there?" in the first paragraph; and "There is no getting down until dad says so!" - they're fairly obvious observations and don't really add anything.

But the main difficulty I had was the sex scene. I think the sex between Elaine and her father comes a little too suddenly. I think you did a good job partially setting the scene - describing Elaine's mimicking of her mother's sexual pleas, her predilection for similar behaviour in her own sex life... but it just doesn't seem like enough to me. I'm curious whether you deliberately intended this to be a bit of a surprise - the problem is, this is such a big step I strongly feel we need that "missing link": we need to see the moment when she justifies this decision to herself. Is it ultimately a selfish motivation - is she sexually attracted to her father? When she says "I still mean it Dad! You miss Mom! I love you. I want to you to be with her!" - that seems to indicate she's making the offer out of love, out of a desire to help her father; but why does she think having sex with him will help him? Why does she think replacing her mother in his mind will be healthy for him?

With her father I suppose the situation is different - his decision to penetrate her is more primal and instinctive, but it still seems a little unfounded. Why would the idea that Elaine is "a piece of meat that men pass around", inspire him to join that group of men? Perhaps it's a twisted desire to protect her by making her his alone? But that doesn't seem to come across in the text of this scene; instead he sees her as his wife Meg (although he very quickly thinks that "his own daughter is smaller...", and starts to call her "June Bug" again?). Still, given that he's enraged and not thinking clearly, his actions make a little more "sense" (as it were) than Elaine's inital offer of sex. Except for the fact that he doesn't seem to react afterwards, when the anger/lust has faded. I dunno, maybe I'm trying to understand something that can't or shouldn't be understood...

Ultimately, though, this is just my opinion. And I suppose it's a little early to pass judgement, since there are 5 more chapters to come! This sex scene just felt a little off to me, and I wonder if a more robustly developed lead-up to it wouldn't be better.

On the whole, I think you've got a beautifully written story with strong characters and, my difficulty with the sex scene aside - good luck and happy writing for the next bit

 

[269Thalia]

Good stuff, kuellar

Hey K thanks for putting your finger right on a couple of the weak spots for me. I am still thinking about those and will ponder your suggestion. Her justifying the first sexual encounter to herself could help. I might re-post that if I work up a suitable idea, it won't be the first refresh...

I posted Chapter 2, please see if it makes more sense... http://www.literotica.com/s/awakening-eden-ch-02

Thanks again,

Thali

 

[kuellar]

Okay, I loved the second chapter.

Right from the beginning things got interesting - Stone's desire for vengeance lends a sinister aspect to the story and sets him up as as basically a classic bad guy, which is interesting; although I wonder if you'll keep him as a mostly one-dimensional character, or flesh him out more later. But it gives everything an urgency and really moves the story forward. The characters in general feel a lot more fleshed out now: now that there's more of a story, the characters have somewhere to fit, which makes them seem more real - if that makes sense. I also really like the dredging up of memories, the journey into the past to find clues to the present - personally I think that's a very powerful story-telling device, and it always gets to me. It's obvious you've planned this out and from what I can see you've planned it out very well indeed!

Cathi's also a very interesting character - the scene with her was brilliantly drawn I thought, with lots of little details to emphasise the distance now between them. And drawing the parallel between Cathi and Elaine really adds a lot to the characters, casting Elaine's relationship with her father in a new light. (I can't help wondering why Elaine doesn't say anything to her dad about what Cathi revealed to her, though!)

But, there's one point in the scene where I was a little confused. At first Cathi is adamant that she "nuked" the video, but then when Elaine asks how there can still be a copy, Cathi says "I can tell you some of what happened". Did she know all along how her father got the video? Or did she only figure out how it must have happened just at that point in her conversation with Elaine on the porch? I wasn't sure, and I thought maybe it made Cathi's character a little too ambiguous.​

Also, Cathi says, "We found the poems" - I assume that "we" is Cathi and her dad, Sheriff Stone. Since Cathi moved out some time ago, Sheriff Stone must have known about the poems for some time - has he been blaming Elaine for Buddy's death all along? If so, why did he not say something? Or was this idea that Elaine was responsible only sparked when he found the DVD while finally clearing out Buddy's room? (Or was the "we" Cathi and her mom, rather than Cathi and her dad? In the opening paragraph where it says Stone "had also found a crumpled school notebook" - that could have been at the same time when he found the DVD, or years before that. I guess if Cathi and her mom found the notebooks first, and her dad only found them at the same time he found the DVD, that would make more sense... but it was slightly ambiguous for me.)​

As to the question of whether the sex scene in the first chapter now makes more sense... Elaine's reaction in the morning I thought was good - it felt authentic, had the ring of truth to it: she's not utterly wracked with guilt, she feels it, but also tries to rationalise it, tries to analyse it somewhat, think practically. I also appreciated the scene towards the end where Elaine and her father discuss the events of the previous night. It did help things make more sense, what Taft says about them going through so much together, acknowledging an attraction that has always been there under the surface; and Elaine's insistence that what they did was wrong. And their sex later that night feels a little more natural (although initially I thought maybe Elaine was dreaming!), given their discussion and what they're going through. But there's still the fact that Elaine's actions the previous night were very deliberate - and so as much as she tries to understand it now, I can't shake the question of what led her to that deliberate action in the first place, if that makes sense.

That said, this issue is less prominent in this chapter, both because it's now in the past and because there's now much more going on. This is shaping up to be a dark, richly complex story filled with fascinating and compelling characters. I guess that initial step is the hardest to justify (and maybe there just isn't a good way to really justify it? - at least, not in a way that wouldn't spoil the rest of the story), but after that I think the rest of the story is progressing brilliantly, and I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

In short, I'm hooked!

 

[269Thalia]

You totally get it, K!

Yes you do. Damn I should just get your viewpoint first.

Thanks for again pointing out the weaknesses in the turn of plot. Your assumptions about what I mean to put across are entirely accurate, altho the fact that other motivations seem possible is something I have to fix.

Glad you find the overall effect interesting. I totally melt at your props dude. Thank you.

Ch 3 in the works...

Thali

 

[kuellar]

Glad I could help!

 

[269Thalia]

Chapter 3 in Approval

Ch 3 of Awakening Eden is The Father-Daughter Love Club. Any need for clarification? lol.

Thali

 

[kuellar]

Okay, I liked the third chapter.

I like the description of Taft's and Elaine's inner struggles. Adds tension and conflict which is great for the story. I really like the interplay between them, Taft discovering Elaine's sexuality and feeling the effect of her seeming lack of limits; second-guessing himself and his desires. Some nice pacing here, as they find an island of themselves in the midst of all the crazy goings-on. I think that does a good job of grounding the characters through the events of the story, and you've got some strong character development here.

The dream scene on the first page I did find a little confusing. It's not immediately obvious what's going on, and while that can sometimes be a good thing, in this case I think surprise works against you. Maybe this sequence could be handled a bit better. If you make it more visceral, for example - as it is it's a bit hollow; there's nothing really to distinguish it from the rest of the narrative so the revelation that it's a dream doesn't have quite the impact that it should, if you see what I mean. Just my opinion, though!

Also, I'm curious to see where you take this "sex club" idea. I did think that scene in the restaurant was maybe a little rushed. How were Rachel and Todd so sure that Taft and Elaine were "people like them"? Why don't Taft and Elaine seem the least bit surprised that there are other father-daughter couples out there, given their own internal struggles with what they're doing? It's a stark shift in tone, from comtemplative, self-reflective, somewhat melancholy - to suddenly being invited to a sex club. (Especially since right before she met Rachel, Elaine was in the bathroom crying about something that we're not told much about!) My first instinct is to say it's too much: it confuses the main plot line too much, dilutes the urgency of the Sheriff's diabolical plans. But you've shown so far a strong facility with plot and character, and I don't want to get ahead of myself! I'll wait and see where it all leads

(P.S. "The restraint Taft chooses is long way from home" - should that be "restaurant"? I wasn't sure if it was some sort of intentional pun... in the dream scene you have "There are over sexty thousand", which I thought was intentional, but this one I wasn't sure!)

 

[269Thalia]

Once again I am being (re) submissive...

Ok I re-submitted Ch 2 last week (it's out now) and Ch 3 today. As you observed, Kuellar, I way over-skimped on a major plot point (which I won't go into yet as it's a spoiler for everyone else).

Nobody really needs to re-read Ch2 unless a certain typo really bugged them. Ch 3 WILL be worth re-reading so iffya haven't hold off a few days.

I'll bug ya when Ch 3 is refreshed.

Love your observations, dude.

Thali