At Odds With Great Lines

[pelegrino]

I have read and admired some great lines in famous poems, but I have a feeling that my soul is still at odds with them. And I am writing some short answers which I call "Contrasts". If you have any similar feelings about such lines, please post them together with your answers. I am interested in collecting them and learn what other people think of such lines.

Here is one example:

Arthur Rimbaud: A SEASON IN HELL => BAD BLOOD

From my ancestors the Gauls I have pale blue eyes, a narrow brain, and awkwardness in competition.

From my Dorian ancestors,
I have inherited,
My endearing faults,
And my dexterity in battle.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I have read and admired some great lines in famous poems, but I have a feeling that my soul is still at odds with them.

That's a super-topic! And, of course, some great lines are great-great, and some are not-so-great.

And I am writing some short answers which I call "Contrasts". If you have any similar feelings about such lines, please post them together with your answers. I am interested in collecting them and learn what other people think of such lines.

Here is one example:

Arthur Rimbaud: A SEASON IN HELL => BAD BLOOD

From my ancestors the Gauls I have pale blue eyes, a narrow brain, and awkwardness in competition.

From my Dorian ancestors,
I have inherited,
My endearing faults,
And my dexterity in battle.

I don't understand it. ("From ... competition" is from Rimbaud. Are the next lines: "From...battle" your own variation, to counter the original?).

Also, Rimbaud smooth lines are kind of pretty but I would not call them great lines.

 

[pelegrino]

That's a super-topic! And, of course, some great lines are great-great, and some are not-so-great.


I don't understand it. ("From ... competition" is from Rimbaud. Are the next lines: "From...battle" your own variation, to counter the original?).

Also, Rimbaud smooth lines are kind of pretty but I would not call them great lines.

Sorry, SJ, I did not present it well. I should have put quotes is Rimbaud's line thus:

"From my ancestors the Gauls I have pale blue eyes, a narrow brain, and awkwardness in competition. "

I don’t know if the word "competition" is correctly translated from French, I just had this translation.
The rest of it is my creation, trying to clarify how I feel in contrast (at odds) with Rimbaud's line. I don’t want to counter the original so much, although by been at odds with it I do.
How anybody feels about his ancestors is his business.
Rimbaud's line here gives me the incentive to express how I feel about my own. And that puts me in contrast. I feel at odds reading it, although I still admire it.
This thread is for everybody if they want to quote a line (not necessarily great), or a short poem, or a complete idea making a point, and then provide their own counterpoint.
I hope I've explained it better this time
I agree with you that not all his poetry is great, but that's a matter of taste for any one and others may disagree.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I don’t know if the word "competition" is correctly translated from French, I just had this translation.

Just by looking at the translation which you, pelegrino, have provided, and nowhere else, I would guess that the ending of the phrase (which I give whole) should be:

From my ancestors the Gauls I have pale blue eyes, a narrow brain, and am a mean fighter.​

How anybody feels about his ancestors is his business.
Rimbaud's line here gives me the incentive to express how I feel about my own. And that puts me in contrast.

Let me look at the two phrases from the artistic point of view. On one hand Rimbaud is more direct when he says: I have pale blue eyes, [...], while writing: I have inherited.... On the other hand word awkwardness is negative hence your text is prettier, smoother. But then, mean fighter is not negative artistically (only morally), which would mean that Rimbaud would be ok .

I hope I've explained it better this time

Yes, thank you.

I agree with you that not all his poetry is great, but that's a matter of taste for any one and others may disagree.

Hm, I didn't say anything about Rimbaud's poetry. I only said something banal that (in general!) sometimes great lines are great-great, and sometimes they are not-so-great.

Best regards,

 

[pelegrino]

From my ancestors the Gauls I have pale blue eyes, a narrow brain, and am a mean fighter.​

Thank you, SJ, for the comments. In any case all comments are welcome on any text, but I mean this thread to be a comparison of contrasting feelings rather than artistry in expression. But of course comments on it would also be welcome and natural. I have read many years ago "A SEASON IN HELL", in Greek and the word "competition" was not there. The word "battle" was used instead as in my contrast. To me the word "awkwardness" is more lamentable from the moral point of view.

The English translation of the poem that I had is here:

http://rimbaud.150m.com/badblood.html

 

[pelegrino]

Having a historical conscience 200 years older, I have re-considered my opinion about fanaticism and barbarism and I find myself at odds with this phrase of Diderot:

Denis Diderot: ESSAI SUR LE MERITE ET LA VERTU (an adaptation of Shaftesbury's original work)

"From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step."

CONTRAST 2

From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step … backwards.

Come back, barbarians,
All is forgiven,
The race of Aryans,
Cannot get even.
You did not start world wars,
And holocausts,
Or what would be still worse:
Nuclear blasts.

 

[Angeline]

I dunno, guys. Me rewriting a line of poetry that I consider great seems like a fool's errand. Maybe some other victims...er poets...will try, too.


My pick for greatness.

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

from The Second Coming, WB Yeats

My recapitulation decided it wanted to be an American Sentence.

Slouching to Somewhere

I am mother and child. There is no context but my consciousness,

 

[pelegrino]

I dunno, guys. Me rewriting a line of poetry that I consider great seems like a fool's errand. Maybe some other victims...er poets...will try, too.


My pick for greatness.

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

from The Second Coming, WB Yeats

My recapitulation decided it wanted to be an American Sentence.

Slouching to Somewhere

I am mother and child. There is no context but my consciousness,

As I said, Angeline, the line does not have to be great, it has to have something that still is bothering to you, an uncertainty of feeling, and by providing your own lines you try to clarify that uncertainty and you give ground for comparison of the feelings expressed. Artistry of expression is not important to me in this thread. Comparison of feelings is. That's the whole exercise.


Anyway, I think your contribution is very valuable. It takes me to another, new direction, and I get the contrast of feeling that I am after. Thanks.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Hard to translate

I can't bring myself to play a game of being at odds with great lines (may be one day). But at least I wanted to provide pelegrino with some to choose from and to test them. Thus I looked at an incredible poem Ode to Youth by Adam Mickiewicz. It has 75 lines and almost all of them are great lines! - incredible. Except that it's very hard or impossible to translate them. I see a translation on Internet but it's horrible (and I don't want to do it myself--too much stress). Thus I looked at some lines from a few of my own Polish poems. The same story. Good lines resist translation!

 

[pelegrino]

I can't bring myself to play a game of being at odds with great lines (may be one day). But at least I wanted to provide pelegrino with some to choose from and to test them. Thus I looked at an incredible poem Ode to Youth by Adam Mickiewicz. It has 75 lines and almost of them are great lines! - incredible. Except that it's very hard or impossible to translate them. I see a translation on Internet but it's horrible (and I don't want to do it myself--too much stress). Thus I looked at some lines from a few of my own Polish poems. The same story. Good lines resist translation!

I agree, but that's life.
Anyway, I don’t want to play a game either. I am after sincerity of a contrasting feeling in some lines (great or otherwise, poetry or not), as I have already explained in my previous posts.

I have not read at all Adam Mickiewicz. Is there anything in English of him? If you know, I would appreciate if you post me a link.
Thanks.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Adam Mickiewicz in translations

Is there anything in English of him? If you know, I would appreciate if you post me a link.

Adam Mickiewicz (1798-1855):

• Uncertainity
• A selection by AM tr. into English
• Selected by poemhunter
• Translations by Jarosław Zawadzki (just some from A.M.)

You may actually buy Mickiewicz's poetic novel

Pan Tadeusz​

double Polish-English text translated by Kenneth R. Mackenzie, for under US $20. Indeed, this seems to me a very good one (while I have doubts about J.Z.).

 

[twelveoone]

"From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step."

CONTRAST 2

From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step … backwards.

the direction is implied in the first but not stated, hence, probably more poetic than the second.

 

[twelveoone]

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

PA, yowsuh, babe
and I've been called much worse

 

[pelegrino]

the direction is implied in the first but not stated, hence, probably more poetic than the second.

I disagree. Not about which has more poetical value, as the quotation is not from a poem but from an essay, but about the qualitative difference in direction implied. Diderot here implies a step in the worst direction, the only thing he allows you to think is that this step would be a retrogression in historical terms.
My contrast (I repeat, of feeling and not of poetic merit) is that I welcome barbarians as a better solution to 20th century fanaticism, therefore my use of the word "backwards" is my call to go forward from 20th century barbarism, even if it takes to be an old barbarian again.

 

[twelveoone]

I disagree. Not about which has more poetical value, as the quotation is not from a poem but from an essay, but about the qualitative difference in direction implied. Diderot here implies a step in the worst direction, the only thing he allows you to think is that this step would be a retrogression in historical terms.
My contrast (I repeat, of feeling and not of poetic merit) is that I welcome barbarians as a better solution to 20th century fanaticism, therefore my use of the word "backwards" is my call to go forward from 20th century barbarism, even if it takes to be an old barbarian again.

In the 10,000 things, context is king, at least for me. I defer.

 

[pelegrino]

Thank you very much, Senna Jawa, for the links you sent. I've bookmarked them for for further reading and investigation.