Astrological Sign vs Astronomical Sign

[Guest]

Astrologists... have split the year up into 30 day (30 degree) increments and boxed 12 zodiac signs into those splits

Astronomers... have used the star charts that were started over 2000 years ago to give us what the zodiac signs should be through scientific charting of the stars

So.... What is your REAL sign?

TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL DATES
Constellation Date Span
Aries 21 Mar - 19 Apr
# of Days 30
Taurus 20 Apr - 20 May
# of Days 31
Gemini 21 May - 20 Jun
# of Days 31
Cancer 21 Jun - 22 Jul
# of Days 32
Leo 23 Jul - 22 Aug
# of Days 31
Virgo 23 Aug - 22 Sep
# of Days 31
Libra 23 Sep - 22 Oct
# of Days 30
Scorpio 23 Oct - 21 Nov
# of Days 30
Sagittarius 22 Nov - 21 Dec
# of Days 30
Capricorn 22 Dec - 19 Jan
# of Days 29
Aquarius 20 Jan - 18 Feb
# of Days 30
Pisces 19 Feb - 20 Mar
# of Days 30-31


ACTUAL ASTRONOMICAL DATES TODAY (c. 2000 C.E.)
Constellation Date Span
Aries 19 Apr - 13 May
# of Days 25
Taurus 14 May - 19 Jun
# of Days 37
Gemini 20 Jun - 20 Jul
# of Days 31
Cancer 21 Jul - 9 Aug
# of Days 20
Leo 10 Aug - 15 Sep
# of Days 37
Virgo 16 Sep - 30 Oct
# of Days 45
Libra 31 Oct - 22 Nov
# of Days 23
Scorpius 23 Nov - 29 Nov
# of Days 7
Ophiuchus 30 Nov - 17 Dec
# of Days 18
Sagittarius 18 Dec - 18 Jan
# of Days 32
Capricornus 19 Jan - 15 Feb
# of Days 28
Aquarius 16 Feb - 11 Mar
# of Days 24-25
Pisces 12 Mar - 18 Apr
# of Days 38

 

[entitled]

Astonomically, it says i'm a Sagittarius. Just don't see it.

 

[Guest]

Astrologically I am a Capricorn...
Astronomically I am a Sagittarius...

Now as to what Ent said...
what if we have been programmed like so many other things to believe that we are truly ONLY those qualities of the 'sign' that was apparently US

Capricorn
(December 22 - January 19)
Capricorn has a cautious though ambitious nature, a drive towards the practical expression of duty, and a conscious aim involved with being useful and dependable. Gemstones: Onyx, Apache Tear, Hematite, Garnet.

Sagittarius
(November 23 - December 21)
Sagittarius has a dignified, restless nature, a drive towards the exploration of ideas, and a conscious aim involved with the attainment of wisdom through experience. Gemstones: Amethyst, Sugalite, Zircon


(this is Ent and I since our birthdays land us in the same signs)

..... reading those.... is it possible... that we are actually Sag's that have been trapped in Cap boxes?

 

[entitled]

Astrologically I am a Capricorn...
Astronomically I am a Sagittarius...

Now as to what Ent said...
what if we have been programmed like so many other things to believe that we are truly ONLY those qualities of the 'sign' that was apparently US

Capricorn
(December 22 - January 19)
Capricorn has a cautious though ambitious nature, a drive towards the practical expression of duty, and a conscious aim involved with being useful and dependable. Gemstones: Onyx, Apache Tear, Hematite, Garnet.

Sagittarius
(November 23 - December 21)
Sagittarius has a dignified, restless nature, a drive towards the exploration of ideas, and a conscious aim involved with the attainment of wisdom through experience. Gemstones: Amethyst, Sugalite, Zircon


(this is Ent and I since our birthdays land us in the same signs)

..... reading those.... is it possible... that we are actually Sag's that have been trapped in Cap boxes?

Possible...

Now toss in the eastern astrological signs (fire snake for me) and tell me what you get.

 

[maggot420]

i think i was born under the sign of maggot...at least thats what Im gonna believe

 

[cloudy]

One says I'm a Cancer, the other says Gemini......um, no. I'm actually closer to a Leo than a Gemini.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[cantdog]

I'm so old, there's been precession of the equinoxes, so I'm back one.

 

[Guest]

I've gone from Aquarius back one to Capricorn.

(And who are you calling old???)

 

[BlackShanglan]

I particularly enjoyed James Randi's discussion of one astrologer's reaction to the recent (2004) discovery of Sedna, a tiny, remote bit of rock that circles the Sun about three times as far out as Pluto. The astrologer was ranting on excitedly about the major implications of this new object to astrological practice, particularly given its alignment with the sea as per the Inuit sea goddess for which it was named. The logic of this, I have to agree, is simply staggering. Let's check some assumptions:

(1) The object, which has certainly been existence for longer than the human race has, evidently only began affecting people's astrological charts once we noticed it was there.

(2) The object is capable of affecting human behavior and actions despite being so distant that it takes over 10,000 years to orbit the Sun and so small that it took us thousands of year to locate.

(3) The object is evidently aligned with the sea based on the fact that a couple of humans located roughly eight billion miles away decided within the last two years of its millions of years of existence to name it after a sea goddess.

Well, I'm convinced.

Shanglan

 

[Xelebes]

Tike to Wiki-whack this word: Ophiuchus.

 

[Guest]

guess i fall totally under the sign of Leo.
some of it i believe...others not so much.

 

[minsue]

Gemini either way.

 

[Xelebes]

Oh, and I am a bull-twin or a twin-bull.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[Pure]

signs and constellations

elizabeth,

I'm not sure that irregular divisions by constellation were ever used, since the dividing lines are arbitrary.

There is a case to be made for ancient sidereal astrology, taking Spica as 29 Virgo, and making equal divisions from that reference point, which places Aldebaran at about 15 Taurus (the Bull's eye).

However the signs are defined now and for hundreds of years by the equinoxes and solsticies, 0 Aries marking the Spring Equinox. IOW, given the increasing discrepancy caused by precession, the decision of western astrologers, mostly, was to stick to the seasonal markers.

Further if you consider Greek astrology, the sign qualities are not so much based the constellation picture as upon the elements and qualities.

---
Let's look at the objections reported by Black and seconded by Owl:

BS(1) The object, which has certainly been existence for longer than the human race has, evidently only began affecting people's astrological charts once we noticed it was there.

O: Seeing as how astrologers never compare their predictions with what actually happens, we're not surprised they never noticed unexplained effects caused by a yet undiscovered body.

P:Response: While the claim is, in the main, absurd, there is no evidence that astrologer ever made it, indeed it's labeled as 'assumption,' i.e., what Randi thinks the astrologer is assuming.

The presumption has to be against an astrologer wanting to make such a claim, since astrologers commonly look at charts of, for example, Kings living before the discovery of Neptune and Pluto, and include these two, even though the persons of the time were unaware of them.

Quote:
BS(2) The object is capable of affecting human behavior and actions despite being so distant that it takes over 10,000 years to orbit the Sun and so small that it took us thousands of year to locate.

O: Why does this remind me of the last time I lost my keys? Is that where they went?

P: There is no reason for an astrologer to claim 'influence' (as opposed to correlation) any more than for a modern physicist to talk in terms of the ether, or the pointed little atomlike things that some Greeks thought composed fire. Think of how we infer distant events from the position of the hands on a clock. I.e., my clock's hands pointiing to 12 predicts my wife on the other side of town starting to eat lunch.

Quote:
BS(3) The object is evidently aligned with the sea based on the fact that a couple of humans located roughly eight billion miles away decided within the last two years of its millions of years of existence to name it after a sea goddess.

O: What I'm really hoping is that the temporary names given to a couple of the new objects stick. Xena and Buffy. What would the astrologers do with those?

P: It's unclear what the point here is: that because of distance, the name chosen has no particular significance. Is the person ready to concede that the name for closer objects, like Mars, have obviously greater significance?
---

Randi on astrology is like Pat Robertson on Islam. He's making trivial points against a 'straw man' target. His approach is unscientific in not referring to rigorously gathered evidence, but simply to invented caricature and common intuition; it's sort of like saying, "Yeah, this crazy Einstein--thought rays of light could be bent--how silly to bend light; light rays are obviously straight, ask any fifth grader."

 

[BlackShanglan]

I might as well have spent my time studying the Easter Bunny. At least with that course, you get chocolate.

Now they tell me! Damn. I would have gone in for Lapinological Omenology from the first if they'd told me about the chocolate.

Why does this remind me of the last time I lost my keys? Is that where they went?

Blast. One more place I will have to check while searching the house in the morning.

Shanglan

ETA: Oooh, here's Cainer on Sedna. He's much more funny than the Easter Bunny. I particularly like the bit about new planets only revealing themselves in times of crucial change, as if they'd been coyly cloaking themselves in dust clouds and harem veils awaiting the proper moment. I also like the second brief answers to letters, in which he quails in the face of the "shouldn't it always have been affecting us?" question.

http://malleable.hosted-at.thebunker.net/2005/
http://www.cainer.com/thoughts/2004/marw5.html

 

[matriarch]

Astrologically - Libra (and it really, really fits)
Astronomically - Virgo. Hmmmm. Not sure about that.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[TheEarl]

Still Leo. Extroverted drama-queen who always needs an audience and likes to be the centre of attention to prop up what is actually quite a fragile ego. I think that's kinda fair.

The Earl

 

[neonlyte]

My personal leaning is toward Anatomical signs - but that could just be an age issue.


Cancer > Gemini

But I'm a Cancerian through and through - not that I believe a word of it, except the bits that are true.

 

[Liar]

Went from Pisces to Aquarius.

Still don't really care.

 

[Guest]

Guys are always asking me Whats your Sign and stuff like its some kinda great way to pick up girls and stuff so I think I want a astronomical size sign and put it across the street from the club and stuff so when guys asked me Whats Your Sign I could just shove them out the door and point to it and say THAT ONE and stuff and Id want it to say I Dont Put Out For Dorks Like You.


Debbie

 

[impressive]

*ahem* I am a astronomical Pisces identifying as an astrological Aries. As with all of these things, you can pick & choose what suits. But ... you decide:

The spring equinox, March 21, is the beginning of the new zodiacal year and Aries, the first sign, is therefore that of new beginnings. The young ram is adventurous, ambitious, impulsive, enthusiastic and full of energy. The Arian is a pioneer both in thought and action, very open to new ideas and a lover of freedom. They welcome challenges and will not be diverted from their purpose except by their own impatience, which will surface if they don't get quick results.

Aries subjects are courageous leaders with a genuine concern for those they command, being responsible people, it is rare that they will use their subordinates to obtain their own objectives as leaders, but occasionally it does happen. They do not make very good followers because they are too "take charge". They may be unwilling to obey or submit to directions for which they can see no reason, or with which they disagree. They are much concerned with self, both positively and negatively - self-reliant but also self centered (sometimes) and concerned with their own personal advancement and physical satisfaction. Their immense energy makes them aggressive and restless, argumentative occasionally, headstrong, quick tempered, easily offended and capable of holding grudges if they feel themselves affronted.

As the first sign in the zodiac, you, as an Arian (as you are referred to), is to simply "get something started and lead the way". The Sun in this zodiac position gives your will free rein to express itself. You could be doing this in the form of some leadership role, or by forcing others to look at themselves in a new way. You can accomplish this by knowingly carrying out a deliberate act in the name of some cause that moves you. A negative effect of this sun sign is that you could sometimes unknowingly make it hard for others to relate to you, as you really are.

In your personal relationships Arians are frank, direct and candid, and make enthusiastic and generous friends. You are liable to have a high sex drive and make passionate but fastidious lovers. There is, however, a negative side to your associations with other people. You can easily be irritated by slowness or moderation in your companions and, though yourselves sensitive, ride roughshod over the sensitivities of others. The intensity of your sexual urges can drive you to promiscuity and a Don Juan-like counting of conquests of the opposite sex. It can also trick you into early unwise marriage which may end disastrously. Arians are highly devoted to their children, even to the point of laying down their own lives, so that they might live. You will not find a more defensive and loving parent in all the zodiac.

It is preferable to be aware of your pioneering spirit and not disregard it. For in acknowledging it you not only enjoy life more, but you avoid being pushed around by others. Your nature is usually push or be pushed, with little middle ground. This can at times be objectionable to others, but you must have the freedom to act, rather then just thinking about it, getting pent-up in the process. At all costs you need to avoid negative emotions such as resentment, regret and self-pity, for they would deny you what is essential to your nature: straightforwardness.

Mentally Arians are intellectual and objective, but can be in rare situations bigoted and extremist in religion and politics. They are good champions of lost causes and last-ditch resistance. They are quick-witted but sometimes foolhardy and over optimistic, lacking thoroughness and the ability to evaluate difficulties in the undertakings into which they often rush impulsively. The great need of Aries natives is to exercise an iron self-control, to discipline the qualities and tendencies of their character to the advantage, not the detriment, of the society in which they move.

As an Arian, you like a challenge that will stir you to action. This challenge may just be frustration; or at a more controlled level, you may have clear direction and know what or whom you're fighting for. If your direction is not clear, then ask yourself and listen to your inner voice. You will come up with an answer. An Arian without a direction in which to go, or a without a cause to fight for, would be against your nature and make you more a "sheep" than a ram!

Arian, do not be afraid to be forceful, for this is the very core of your nature. If you feel fear in your heart, then look for a history of negative events in you personal history, such as violence or abuse from others. Being fearful may also indicate a household in childhood that negated independence and personal initiative in you. This could have inhibited your natural urge to go forward into life as the leader and champion you were born to be. Conversely, such bad influences could also have led you to be overly forceful, or to be unsympathetic to your own need and sensitivity.

You make good athletes and climbers, doctors, explorers (of new ideas as well as uncharted territory, the latter in these days including adventuring into outer space), soldiers, sailors and airmen, and leaders, though awkward subordinates, in industry and politics.

Much as you are the Ram, there is still the little lamb in you, which means that at times you would attain your goals more easily by gently giving in without resistance to the demands of a given social situation, rather than getting your horns entangled in something larger and more powerful than yourself. This is a talent akin to knowing the difference between what you can change, and what you cannot. This of course takes patience, the acquiring of which is definitely your greatest achievement, along with your sense of your own inner softness.

Pisceans possess a gentle, patient, malleable nature. They have many generous qualities and are friendly, good natured, kind and compassionate, sensitive to the feelings of those around them, and respond with the utmost sympathy and tact to any suffering they encounter. They are deservedly popular with all kinds of people, partly because their easygoing, affectionate, submissive natures offer no threat or challenge to stronger and more exuberant characters. They accept the people around them and the circumstances in which they find themselves rather than trying to adapt them to suit themselves, and they patiently wait for problems to sort themselves out rather than take the initiative in solving them. They are more readily concerned with the problems of others than with their own.

Their natures tend to be too otherworldly for the practical purposes of living in this world as it is. They sometimes exist emotionally rather than rationally, instinctively more than intellectually (depending on how they are aspected). They long to be recognized as greatly creative. They also dislike discipline and confinement. The nine-to-five life is not for them. Any rebellion they make against convention is personal, however, as they often times do not have the energy or motivation to battle against the Establishment.

Pisceans tend to withdraw into a dream world where their qualities can bring mental satisfaction and sometimes, fame and financial reward for they are extremely gifted artistically. They are also versatile and intuitive, have quick understanding, observe and listen well, and are receptive to new ideas and atmospheres. All these factors can combine to produce remarkable creativity in literature, music and art. They may count among their gifts mediumistic qualities which can give them a feeling that their best work comes from outside themselves, "Whispered beyond the misted curtains, screening this world from that." Even when they cannot express themselves creatively they have a greater than average instinct for, and love of, beauty in art and nature, a catlike appreciation of luxury and pleasure, and a yearning for new sensations and travel to remote, exotic places.

They are never egotistical in their personal relationships and give more than they ask from their friends. They are sexually delicate, in the extreme almost asexual, and most Pisceans would want a relationship in which the partner's mind and spirit rather than the body resonated with their own. Unfortunately they can be easily misled by a lover who courts them delicately and in marriage makes them unhappy by a coarser sexuality than they expected. They are nevertheless intensely loyal and home-loving and will remain faithful.

In their employment they are better working either by themselves or in subordinate positions. Their talents are individual in a commercial business or similar undertaking. They would be afraid to manage more than a small department, worrying always that they would fail in a crisis. They can make fair secretaries and bookkeepers.

Their sympathy equips them for work in charities catering for the needy, as nurses looking after the sick and as veterinary surgeons caring for animals. As librarians or astronomers they can satisfy their mental wanderlust, and their fondness for "faraway places with strange-sounding names" may turn them into sailors or travellers. Many architects and lawyers are Pisceans, and when the creative abilities are combined with gifts of imitation and the ability to enter into the feelings of others, Pisceans find their fulfillment on the stage. Their psychic and spiritual qualities can lead them into careers in the church or as mediums and mystics. They may find an outlet for their creativity as caterers, and are said to make good detectives because they can imagine themselves in the place of criminals and understand how their minds would work. In technical occupations they are well employed in dealing with anaesthetics, fluids, gases and plastics. Because of their lively versatility and inability to concentrate overmuch on any one project, Pisceans often simultaneously follow more than one occupation.

 

[Aurora Black]

Astrologically, I'm a Taurus. Astronomically, I'm an Aries. Doesn't really matter in the long run, since I was born on the Aries-Taurus cusp anyway.

Aries is the first Sign of the Zodiac. It represents birth and the first realisation of self. Taurus, the second Sign of the Zodiac, moves beyond what is represented by Aries and begins to explore the world physically. Aries tend to display strong leadership; their extroverted and assertive nature lets them eagerly lead the new cycle of the Zodiac. Taureans tend to be richly sensual, enjoying the good things in life and the physical pleasures that come with them. Together, these two Signs conspire to denote an active and dynamic pioneer who responds to the world by examining the worth of each possible response. Those born on this Cusp enjoy the ability to follow through and complete projects that others may have abandoned due to boredom or because it was too difficult. This promises a tremendous amount of fulfilling adventure and achievement for those born on the Aries/Taurus Cusp.

To Be Continued...