Asleep at the Wheel.

[Spinaroonie]

We've probably heard the story in the news. The driver (usually a teen) feel asleep while driving a car and killed somebody. No criminal charges are filed and usually the driver isn't even sued.

Asleep at the wheel deaths are increasing. Heck, I even knew a guy who killed his best friend doing this (even worse is at the beginning of the year, I told him that he could get away with murder scot-free by telling him that he just needed to fall asleep at the wheel. I'm pretty sure that he didn't do it on purpose.)

Should there be stiffer penalities (Read: ANY criminal penalties) for people who fall asleep while driving? These people are usally more dangerous than drunk drivers (Who can react some)

Edit:
Yes, I will admit to being very tired at the wheel, but I've never gone to sleep. Yes, Caffeine willl only last you so long. But sometimes you just have to go to a restuauraunt, eat (Full drivers are 2/3 more responsive than hungry drivers) and then take a plastic fork and keep jabbing it into your hand or thigh to keep yourself awake. Or, if all else fails, find a parking lot and sleep.

 

[Gamelover221]

I'm not as bad as I used to be, but there was one time I was driving home to Austin...

It's normally about a 3 hour drive, but that day the weather and traffic were bad so it was more like 4. I was following my parents who were hauling most of my "stuff". About an hour into the drive I was really getting sleepy. The sky was black and there was a lot of wind and rain. I had the radio on full blast but that didn't help. The window was down so I was getting wet and wind blown...still no good. I was pinching and slapping myself but I would get sleepy again as soon as the pain wore off. The only way I made it home was having my mom call me every few minutes on the cell phone to make sure I was awake, and I chewed up some caffine pills as well (very bad tasting!)

I'd had a good night's sleep and I'm not a careless driver, but sometimes people just get sleepy in cars. I don't think there's anything more I could have done to prepare myself to stay awake. Maybe my situation doesn't apply to most sleepy drivers, but I cannot see any reason to condemn me had I failed to stay awake. Cars have always made me sleepy, that was how my parents got me to sleep as a baby. It's as natural a reaction as getting hungry when you smell a food you like.

*For the record I've never fallen asleep for more than a split-second*

 

[TWB]

It is no better than driving drunk. The family members of the person a sleeping driver kills are not going to care whether it was alcohol or lack of sleep.

 

[hatara]

I have dozed and awoke fast at the wheel a couple of times while driving the 3 hours it takes to get home from my parents. I tried food, caffiene and did stop and just sleep for a while. It turned out that what I had was something like mono that made me literally fall asleep. I certainly didn't get behind a wheel again until I was well and will just refuse to drive if I have the other symptoms associated with it that come first.

Generalizations are the problem. If someone falls asleep because they just think they have to get there and refuse to sleep and fall asleep at the wheel they are certainly at fault. Although I did not even go off the road or have an accident technically I fell asleep at the wheel maybe only for a few seconds but I did. What do you say about someone that doesn't know they have an illness but that illness makes them literally fall asleep or pass out behind the wheel?

 

[TWB]

If you have no awareness you are tired? Even with Mono, I think you would have some awareness that you were tired enough to be a risk on the road.

The only way a disease would make any difference in my mind would be if it was a very sudden onset, like an accident caused by a heart attack or stroke.

If a person has warning that they are very tired, due to illness or otherwise, they should get off of the road. Cars are implements of destruction and death when in the wrong hands.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

It is no better than driving drunk. The family members of the person a sleeping driver kills are not going to care whether it was alcohol or lack of sleep.

I voted other because there is a difference; people can get into a car sober, awake and refreshed, not tired at all, and after 3 hours on the super-slab, going 55 MPH because "it saves lives" and because they will get a ticket if the go 65 MPH, they become tired without realizing it and nod off.

How many times have you awoken after you have inadvertantly fell asleep in your easy chair while trying to stay awake to watch some TV show - and you didn't even have a clue you were falling asleep so you could get up and splash your face with water? Driving a car is almost exactly like it, except the TV show is a whole lot more boring.

Now for the difference; when you get drunk, you know you are drunk, at least most people do, or at the very least you know you have been drinking. You just should not be driving, and I never drive drunk - but then I haven't been drunk in over 20 years and I rarely drink (last month was the first time I had a drink in about 20 years, and I wasn't driving).

Yes I've have fallen asleep at the wheel. I am somewhat sensitive to light, and when the sun goes down my body says go to sleep. For that reason I do not drive at night if it is going to take me much more than 1.5 hours to get somewhere on the superslab. When coming home from Oregon I try to time it so I have no more than an hour in the dark before I get home. I have gotten to the point where I can recognize the signs of my drowsiness and I take steps to wake up, such as stopping and taking a break or a nap.

Even so, I have found myself getting very drowsy in the middle of the day when on a long trip - it is just spectacularly boring. Not tiring, boring. I do not fall asleep on my motorcycle - I can do 10 hours on it, even on the superslab - although riding a motorcycle is a lot more tiring.

 

[Mountain Man]

Having fallen asleep at the wheen once in my life.....i think there should be tougher penalties.....

I was 18 and driving back to college from NYC (a 5 hour drive)..hadn't slept much that weekend .....i made it 4 1/2 hours and was almost there...to dumb to pull over and sleep...hell i was only 25 miles away.....Radio Blasting.....window open and 4 no Doz in the last hour......was jolted awake when my car hit a reflector in the median and i jerked the wheel to pull back onto the road....went across the higway and into the ditch off the shoulder...

I was fine....Adrennalin wakes you up quick...a brused ankle a cut on my neck from the seatbelt...and $300 damage to my car...

I was extremely lucky.....no one else was around (it was 11:30 at night)...and no one was injured.... But i took my life in my hands as well as everyone else on the road that night...

I can no longer sleep in a car.....when I get tired...i have my wife drive or i pull off the road....

This is just another example of people not taking responsibility for their actions....If you kill or injure some one while driving there should be penalties..We have become a society of...."it's not my fault...don't blame me for "xyz"....


Watching TV and driving a car are two completely different things...you won't kill anyone watching TV..

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

This is just another example of people not taking responsibility for their actions....If you kill or injure some one while driving there should be penalties..We have become a society of...."it's not my fault...don't blame me for "xyz"....

I didn't say that there shouldn't be penalties - what I said was that falling asleep is different from driving while intoxicated. Getting into a car and driving after drinking is highly negligent on its face, getting into a car sober, awake and properly rested is not negligent in the least.

Watching TV and driving a car are two completely different things...you won't kill anyone watching TV..

Yes they are two different things, but that wasn't the point. Since you obviously didn't get the point I will be explicit one more time; for many people it is a hell of a lot easier, or at least as easy to inadvertantly fall asleep driving a car than it is to fall asleep watching TV. The proper methodology is to take a break if you get even a little bit tired, splash some water on your face, etc.

You can talk about responsibility all you want, but I am not the one that had a serious accident because he fell asleep at the wheel, you are. I have not so much as even run off the road.

Look, I do believe that people need to take responsibility for their actions. I have had friends killed by drunk drivers, and I have been hit from behind three times by inattentive drivers. I have almost been run off the road numerous time on my motorcycle by people who don't look to the side to check to see if there is someone there, much less use their turn signals. There is all kinds of people exhibiting poor and dangerous driving habits out there.

Each instance of a car wreck (rarely are they accident as an accident is usually unavoidable, whereas most car wrecks are avoidable with a little care) is different, with different causes and levels of negligence. A zero-tolerance policy should be reserved for those circumstances where it is clear that every time it happens the person at fault was clearly and extremely negligent. That is true of drunk drivers, it is not necessarily quite so true of people who fall asleep at the wheel.

 

[Mountain Man]

There is deffinately a difference between falling asleep and drunk driving....Driving Drunk is agains't the law...Driving drowsy isn't...but can be just as dangerous.


I'm not that stupid.....


What i was saying is that people just don't fall asleep at the wheel....except perhaps Narcoleptics (sp). There are warning signs of being a tired driver...and the decission to continue on driving...and putting yourself and those around you at risk is a concious choice.

I'm glad to see that no others have had an accident while falling asleep at the wheel. It is not someting i am proud of as you seem to think Tall Shy Guy. I got extremely lucky that i am still here and didn't kill anyone in he process....But if i had....i would be responsible for it ..I would not try to get out of the mess by saying it was not my fault....

Which was my point in the first place..


A car can be a deadly weapon....ANY time you get behind the wheel you make a choice...a person could get killed or injured.

Accidents rarely happen out of nowhere....people are innatentive/talking on the cell phone/changing the radio station/getting a blow job/putting on makeup....what ever...but to excuse behavior because of any of those things is a cop out and an excuse...

I also think that the penalties for drunk driving in this country are far to lax......you hear stories everyday of some schmuck who had 5 or 6 DUI's finally killing or injuring somebody...but he was on the road driving......and should have been locked up.

That's the end of my rant...I am not a fanatic about stuff like this as it may seem.. I have at times in the distant past, driven after a few drinks...i no longer do...i am a reasonably safe driver who has had only one accident in my entire life....the one mentioned in the earlier post. And with 500,000 + miles of driving under my bely i think that is a good record.

 

[ksmybuttons]

I adore Asleep at the Wheel. Their music just makes my foot tap. Ray Benson just is amazing vocally and energy wise. Cindy Cashdollar plays steel and dobro so I can steal licks!

 

[Spinaroonie]

It's normally about a 3 hour drive, but that day the weather and traffic were bad so it was more like 4. About an hour into the drive I was really getting sleepy. I was pinching and slapping myself but I would get sleepy again as soon as the pain wore off. The only way I made it home was having my mom call me every few minutes on the cell phone to make sure I was awake, and I chewed up some caffine pills as well (very bad tasting!)

I'd had a good night's sleep and I'm not a careless driver, but sometimes people just get sleepy in cars. I don't think there's anything more I could have done to prepare myself to stay awake. Maybe my situation doesn't apply to most sleepy drivers, but I cannot see any reason to condemn me had I failed to stay awake. Cars have always made me sleepy, that was how my parents got me to sleep as a baby. It's as natural a reaction as getting hungry when you smell a food you like.

*For the record I've never fallen asleep for more than a split-second*

But still, isn't this like the responsability of a person to know their tendencies and characteristics? There are people who can't stop touching themselves, it's a rare disoverder. They still get punished when they masturbate in the park.

Perhaps maybe one of your parents should've driven your car, unless they're even worse behind the wheel. You were a danger to yourself and others.

What if you killed somebody? Would you not feel bad? Could you just go over to that person's mother and smugly say "Oh. Yeah. Sorry, I get sleepy in cars. Hey, well, there's my ride, catch ya later"?

When you drive you assume a ton of responsibility, the responsability to stay awake and not kill people is one of them and it should be enforced.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I voted other because there is a difference; people can get into a car sober, awake and refreshed, not tired at all, and after 3 hours on the super-slab, going 55 MPH because "it saves lives" and because they will get a ticket if the go 65 MPH, they become tired without realizing it and nod off.

Even so, I have found myself getting very drowsy in the middle of the day when on a long trip - it is just spectacularly boring. Not tiring, boring. I do not fall asleep on my motorcycle - I can do 10 hours on it, even on the superslab - although riding a motorcycle is a lot more tiring.

I think you misunderstood my question. I"m asking if there should be penalties for falling asleep and killing people. Right now police don't file any charges at all. They just put it in the accident file.

Also, I think the motorcycle keeps you awake because your inner ear is balancing you... Just try to fall asleep on a tight rope

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I think you misunderstood my question. I"m asking if there should be penalties for falling asleep and killing people. Right now police don't file any charges at all. They just put it in the accident file.

I do not believe this is true everywhere, if anywhere. I believe it depends on the circumstances. I have heard of a number of cases where truck drivers or train "engineers" have fallen asleep at the wheel/switch and there was talk about charges being pressed, pending an investigation. I believe any time there is a death there is an investigation, and that means that if negligence is found then charges or one sort or another may be filed. It just depends.

I don't like to make absolute statements such as "nothing ever happens", or "killing is killing" regardless of circumstances. I have seen death and serious injury first hand often enough to know that it is taken seriously by all, that the police don't just chalk it up as another accident, and that there are often mitigating circumstances.

Saying "killing is killing" infers a zero tolerance policy, and as I said before I believe that while that is appropriate with DUI, it is not appropriate for someone falling asleep at the wheel. The latter needs to be investigated and if negligence is found then appropriate action taken. Also, as I said before, DUI is clearly criminal and negligent, whereas there is often no clearly negligent act leading up to falling asleep at the wheel - you can be sober, bright and bushy tailed when you get into the car and an hour later be asleep at the wheel.

There are also civil remedies, but whether civil or criminal action is sought, it is hard to prove negligence in an asleep at the wheel incident. For one thing DUI is clearly illegal, there are sobriety tests and blood tests - it is pretty clear what happened. Not so with sleepiness - and unless the person owns up to their own negligence (if there was any), then it is really hard to prove anything. With truck drivers or others where sleep time, time on the road, etc. are tracked, then there is some evidence.

Also, I think the motorcycle keeps you awake because your inner ear is balancing you... Just try to fall asleep on a tight rope

Not likely; when I was a kid my mom would bring me home from church and I would be standing there and she would walk away and I would fall flat on my face asleep. I can still almost sleep standing up, and I can sleep almost anywhere anytime. My bike keeps me awake because it requires my attention to keep from crashing from one second to the other. A car is much easier to pilot. Also, on a bike I am out in the open, breathing fresh and usually cool air.

More often than not my adrenalin is flowing (especially in the twisties), or at the very least I am enjoying the scenery. Riding a bike is totally unlike driving a car - the only times I have had a problem on my bike I have not even been close to sleep, but I had trouble concentrating going through the twisties, so I had to slow way down - that was at the end of ten hours of riding.

 

[rider]

You touched it Tall Shy Guy

I have heard of a number of cases where truck drivers or train "engineers" have fallen asleep at the wheel/switch and there was talk about charges being pressed, pending an investigation.

Truck drivers are required to fill out a log book, stating the hours they have driven for pay, worked (not driving) for pay, spent in the sleeper of their truck, and off duty. Truckers are limited to 10 hours of driving, or 15 hours on duty, before sleeping 8 hours. This log book is a legal document, which can be checked by law enforcement, looking at toll tickets, fuel receipts, scale tickets, etc. Anything with a time on it. If it shows you speeding, guess what?! A ticket. Playing with times? A ticket. Now, let's move on to the guy who works all day, say he gets up at 7:30 am, goes to work until 5:00 pm, goes home and packs for a trip. He leaves at 7:00 pm to drive another 4 hours. There is no law stating he cannot do that, and there shouldn't be. But everyone is different. I can be fully awake and fine on 5 hours of sleep. I have done it many times. Less than 3 and I am tired. More than 5-6 and I am tired, can't get going. However, If I drive a truck, I cannot listen to my internal clock. That is the point of this thread, I think. If you don't listen to your internal clock, you are in the wrong. I don't think you should be Criminally liable in that case, so no new law. But I do think you could be found Civilally (sp) liable. But I also think the Hours of Service regulations for truck drivers should be changed. More emphasis should be put into individual responsibility, and letting the driver himself decide when he/she needs to rest, not some cut and dried rule from the feds based upon some study. The current laws were set up, if memory serves, in the 1940's. A lot has changed since then.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I don't like to make absolute statements such as "nothing ever happens", or "killing is killing" regardless of circumstances. I have seen death and serious injury first hand often enough to know that it is taken seriously by all, that the police don't just chalk it up as another accident, and that there are often mitigating circumstances.

Saying "killing is killing" infers a zero tolerance policy, and as I said before I believe that while that is appropriate with DUI, it is not appropriate for someone falling asleep at the wheel. The latter needs to be investigated and if negligence is found then appropriate action taken. Also, as I said before, DUI is clearly criminal and negligent, whereas there is often no clearly negligent act leading up to falling asleep at the wheel - you can be sober, bright and bushy tailed when you get into the car and an hour later be asleep at the wheel.

So what would constitue non-negligant falling asleep? I think with all the warning signs, drowsiness, having to fight it off... gives a person ample warning.

As for the generalizations, you're right. I am. But, I keep seeing them come up on the news with no charges being filed.

I'd be pretty pissed if somebody fell asleep and killed somebody I knew.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

So what would constitue non-negligant falling asleep? I think with all the warning signs, drowsiness, having to fight it off... gives a person ample warning.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Lit., but it probably varies according to a local definition of what negligence is. As for warning signs, you have never found yourself asleep in your recliner trying to watch TV and wondered just how and when you fell asleep? I have a number of times found myself decoming drowsy to the point of almost closing my eyes without warning. Had I not recognized it I could have indeed fallen asleep. Sometimes, when you are really tired you just don't realize how tired you are and how close to sleep you are. When I was in the military I would sometimes go so long without sleep that I saw halucinations (white horses galloping across the waves) - we had to watch other very closely to make sure someone didn't just walk right off the deck and never be seen again. I have seen and suffered from exposure an hypothermia - you get into a state where you don't even realize just how bad off you are, and you don't care. Sleep can be very much like that; you just don't know until it is too late.

I'd be pretty pissed if somebody fell asleep and killed somebody I knew.

As would I. If no criminal charges could be filed then I would probably file a civil lawsuit.

 

[rider]

Why make another damn law??

What is the problem of allowing 12 good men and women decided if a negligent act took place? What good will it do to put someone in prison for an act like this? Do you really think, with the astronomical awards given in this day and age, that someone found negligent in a civil case doesn't pay? Do you really think that the laws against DUI stop people from drinking and driving? If so, then lobby to get your law passed in your state. The law against DUI doesn't stop people from drinking and driving, though. Should we repeal that law? No. But you are comparing apples and oranges. If I go out, get smashed, and climb into my vehicle, I am taking a known risk. I willingly went out and consumed a substance which delays my reaction time and dulls my senses. Falling asleep is a different matter, however. It was not necessarily an act of ommission or commision on my part. Am I negligent for my actions in that case? Yes. Criminally? No. Are you advocating a microchip implant, which would monitor our rest periods with a starter interlock on all vehicles, so that we are "properly rested" before driving? Do you actually think such a "system" would work? That sounds like the direction you are going with this thread.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Lit., but it probably varies according to a local definition of what negligence is. As for warning signs, you have never found yourself asleep in your recliner trying to watch TV and wondered just how and when you fell asleep? I have a number of times found myself decoming drowsy to the point of almost closing my eyes without warning. Had I not recognized it I could have indeed fallen asleep. Sometimes, when you are really tired you just don't realize how tired you are and how close to sleep you are. When I was in the military I would sometimes go so long without sleep that I saw halucinations (white horses galloping across the waves) - we had to watch other very closely to make sure someone didn't just walk right off the deck and never be seen again. I have seen and suffered from exposure an hypothermia - you get into a state where you don't even realize just how bad off you are, and you don't care. Sleep can be very much like that; you just don't know until it is too late.

I think it's amazing that you don't use the abreviation for "I am not a lawyer" - IANAL.

Yes, I've fallen in front of sleep, but I do whatever I can to keep myself awake in the car.