As the curtain falls yet again on Republican and Libertarian ideals

[Le Jacquelope]

and Democrats are left with cleaning up the mess they've inflicted upon this country, what would you do if you were one of the ones headed into office next year?

What's your plan?

Mine is to grow America out of its debt. That is, to grow the incomes of every day Americans - the people who made this nation great - and bring back the good paying jobs that traitorous US corporations sent overseas. Enact an absolute ban on medical and financial companies processing any personal information overseas, as well as stricter standards for domestic companies to protect consumer data. I will piss in the Republican Party's face and tell them to kiss off - there will be a zero tolerance policy for the "free trading" of private personal information in this country when I am done. Of course, that policy will exclude Republicans, since they are opposed to the concept of protecting one's personal information.

Then I'll secure the borders and tell Mexico to piss off, too. I'll even shut off Mexican goods for a day to show them how much they need American consumer dollars. Ok, just kidding about that. But I would push Congress for a big fat Federal tax on all that money going out of the US to Mexico. I think 25% should suffice. It'll go toward fixing our overwhelmed health care system and hospitals that the illegals are bringing to their knees.

I'll push Congress to revoke the RealID Act and USAPATRIOT Act, and put an end to domestic spying. I'll put an end to Bush's allowing Osama Bin Laden to hide and create a national bogey man, and bring his ass in once and for all. I'll return US policy to the "speak softly and carry a big stick" approach of diplomacy and good deeds first, then whupping someone's ass when they threaten us. No more of this "I THINK they have WMD's, so we'll invade... oops, no WMD's, I meant to say we'll DEMOCRATIZE them!"

I'll establish a national academic olympics program and strengthen scientific grant programs, among other things, to encourage more students to pursue the sciences.

Oil industry profits will be subject to a progressive windfall profits tax that will be directed to fund research into an alternative energy infrastructure. I'll propose that bill to have a sunset clause (2015).

I'll have the space industry kickstarted back into an explorative and frontier mindset to supplement the stagnant, satellite maintenance and telescope launching chores that comprises its functionality today. By the time I leave office there'll be an infant space tourism industry and talk of a space freight infrastructure.

And on every Labor Day, I'm going to give a speech commemorating the contributions that America's working class has made to this great nation.

 

[Sean Renaud]

First LT you know I got nothing but love for ya. But I see a few of your policies not being workable. Since I'm in a good mood and I don't want you to destroy my somewhat Libertarian ass ( I consider myself a democrat but most of my ideas seem to fall in line with libertarians so take it as you will) I'll start by agreeing with you.

Grow America out of its debt as much and as quickly as possible. I can't believe that we have been convinced that it isn't a bad thing. It obviously isn't fatal but being in debt is always negative, particularly if you can't pay it off. So kick ass and take names. And I'm against outsourcing (particularly to China, thanks to you. And I liked being greedy.)

Since you were unclear on how you plan to secure the border I'm all about it. I do feel that is a problem that needs to be solved. I don't think that the 25% tax is a good thing to do in conjunction with it however. I still believe that American's should be able (for the most part) to do what they want with their money. Legal citizens should be able to send money to Mexico in my opinion. Though I like how you planned to spend the money.

Amen to the death of the Patriot Act. Specially since I don't particularly have a problem with them tapping KNOWN or SUSPECTED terrorists anyway and I suspect that some top secret unit was already doing that, least some of the time. Course they obviously need to unshackle our police force. The entire Zarkawi <-I know I mispelled that bastards name, the guy who just got life instead of death) situation proves that our cops have too many rules. I'm not saying cops need to have free reign I'm saying that some changes need to be made. From the way you phrased it I'm not sure how you feel about the Iraq invasion. Personally I feel it should have been done but every reason we were given was pure bullshit.

I didn't know that there weren't kids following the sciences. Though I agree with your basic premise here though I would prefer to just strengthen education across the board. It should start with a substantial raise for teachers so that people with the education to become teachers do. To me right now I can barely understand why anybody becomes a teacher (unless they LOVE kids or something) because with that much education there are so many better paying jobs out there. So I'm agreeing and adding to you there.

I don't believe an oil windfall tax will work. I honestly believe that if you told the oil companies that if they make more than X we will increase how much we tax you or what not they will simply stop making oil at the moment they stop making money. They would rather watch people starve than have the government fuck them. This is one of the few times when I don't completely agree with free reign capitalism but this is one of the times when it has backed us into a corner. They should never have allowed Exxon/Mobil to join they are a virtual monopoly and should be split.

I don't believe that there is much that can be done for the space station. This is another time when I am goign to say Privitize it. You want Space tourism? Hand Bill Gates a fucking Space Shuttle.

Love the Labor Day Idea. Wouldn't hurt if you did it for Veterans Day also.

 

[Sean Renaud]

damn double post

 

[RobDownSouth]

Since Republicans have instilled in America's collective conscious that perception is everything, I'd propose the following changes when collective sanity returns in the form of a Democratic president in January 2009:

1. Announce that Operation Enduring Freedom is over. The new phase of the Iraqi occupation will be called Operation Cleanup Bush's Folly. Have a campaign medal of that exact name awarded to all members of the military still in Iraq subsequent to that date.

2. Repeal the taxcuts on America's wealthiest 1% and call it FairShare.

3. Create a special 10 year 2% surtax on American income and taxable gain called the George W. Bush War Tax to specifically pay for the costs associated with Bush's entirely voluntary war with Iraq. This is in addition to regular income tax. Do NOT withhold this tax via normal payroll taxes....have the government send a bill to each American taxpayer every single month and make John Q. Public write a check so they can see exactly what sort of war they've bought.

4. Start a monthly public relations campaign against Supreme Court Justice Sam Alito, detailing his evasive replies about abortion during his confirmaiton hearings. When Alito finally does lead the charge to overturn Roe V. Wade on a technicality, triumphantly say "See? We TOLD you this would happen!"

5. Introduce legislation to prohibit anyone who has admitted to having homosexual sex from adopting children, and make it retroactive 10 years. Sure, it's prolly unconstitional, but the opportunity to take Capn Amatrixca's kid away from him will make him a Born-again Democrat in a heartbeat!

 

[Sean Renaud]

You know what's sad is I can't tell you are joking or not with these outrageous ideas. Just to play the devil's advocate I will take it seriously.

1. Whoever takes over should be as positive about Bush as can be done with a straight face. The country is way to polarized and it is Bush's fault largely. We need to bring this country together. You should be an American Republican, or an American Democrat. Not the other way around which seems to be the current trend.

2. No comment cus I mostly agree.

3. I don't mind this idea except it would backfire. Twice. Once it serves to polarize the country by its name and nature. BAD. Second the people who never approved of the war won't pay it.

4. Polarizing again.

5. I think this one was a joke so I will respond by getting into my ROFLcoptor. I'll get there faster on my LOLerskates.

 

[landslider2000]

Count more dangling chads for Al Gore in Florida.

Of course, Gore may have too much exogenous obesity to serve at this late date.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Le Jacquelope]

5. Introduce legislation to prohibit anyone who has admitted to having homosexual sex from adopting children, and make it retroactive 10 years. Sure, it's prolly unconstitional, but the opportunity to take Capn Amatrixca's kid away from him will make him a Born-again Democrat in a heartbeat!

No need for that. Currently existing child molestation laws will nab him when the CPS discovers what's going on in his household.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

and Democrats are left with cleaning up the mess they've inflicted upon this country, what would you do if you were one of the ones headed into office next year?

What's your plan?

There will be no plan. The only significant difference presented by which of either aspect of our one party system is in power, will be the rate of acceleration towards complete Socialism.

Explain to me something.

What does it say about laissez-faire and capitalism if every time it is tried, it leads to a society's near-collapse, and it is ultimately rejected?

An acceleration towards complete Socialism is the ultimate statement that your way of life is simply unsuitable.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that no civilized country wants anything to do with your ideals?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Since you were unclear on how you plan to secure the border I'm all about it. I do feel that is a problem that needs to be solved. I don't think that the 25% tax is a good thing to do in conjunction with it however. I still believe that American's should be able (for the most part) to do what they want with their money. Legal citizens should be able to send money to Mexico in my opinion. Though I like how you planned to spend the money.

Secure the borders by, as another person put it, bringing the national guard home from Iraq. Give people a reward for reporting illegals working in the US and fund it by taking it out of the asses of the illegals' employers. Nothing works quite like giving kids some Xbox 360 money in exchange for reporting an illegal immigrant maid.

Course they obviously need to unshackle our police force. The entire Zarkawi <-I know I mispelled that bastards name, the guy who just got life instead of death) situation proves that our cops have too many rules. I'm not saying cops need to have free reign I'm saying that some changes need to be made. From the way you phrased it I'm not sure how you feel about the Iraq invasion. Personally I feel it should have been done but every reason we were given was pure bullshit.

I initially supported Bush and the Iraq invasion, but by late 2003? I was utterly blown away at the Chimp's incompetence and the contradiction of the war propaganda by the hard facts.

I've been a Republican since I was yea tall. I still am. These people that call themselves Republicans now are fucking rabid dogs, and ain't down with that.

I didn't know that there weren't kids following the sciences. Though I agree with your basic premise here though I would prefer to just strengthen education across the board. It should start with a substantial raise for teachers so that people with the education to become teachers do. To me right now I can barely understand why anybody becomes a teacher (unless they LOVE kids or something) because with that much education there are so many better paying jobs out there. So I'm agreeing and adding to you there.

We import a lot of our scientific talent. Our kids like sports more. Sports heroes make a pile while scientists take up plumbing to make ends meet. It's not like the former USSR, but it is bad.

I don't believe an oil windfall tax will work. I honestly believe that if you told the oil companies that if they make more than X we will increase how much we tax you or what not they will simply stop making oil at the moment they stop making money. They would rather watch people starve than have the government fuck them. This is one of the few times when I don't completely agree with free reign capitalism but this is one of the times when it has backed us into a corner. They should never have allowed Exxon/Mobil to join they are a virtual monopoly and should be split.

If they stop making oil then the execs themselves won't be able to get around. They wouldn't want to live in the chaos they created. But if they pushed America, we're more innovative than Republican oil industry cock suckers believe - we'd innovate our way right out of oil dependency. We can do it now, we are working on it now, and if there was a critical shortage? We would finish up the switch quick.

I don't believe that there is much that can be done for the space station. This is another time when I am goign to say Privitize it. You want Space tourism? Hand Bill Gates a fucking Space Shuttle.

I agree with some privatization. But private companies do not take risks. Risks are what lead to major new discoveries and the sudden appearance of new infrastructure. The Internet would never have existed without the Government taking a huge risk and making DARPA. Historically, the military (Government spending by another name) lead innovation and civilian usage spawned from that. When society is lead by profitability over adventure and frontierism, we become stagnated. Or: where are our flying cars?

Love the Labor Day Idea. Wouldn't hurt if you did it for Veterans Day also.

Especially because of all the vets whose benefits have been cut by the Republicans.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Because I know what you don't know.

That you're an idiot?

That there has to be an incentive to produce in order for your Socialist ideal to exist

True dat. We never had anything in this world before capitalism came along. Whoever said necessity was the mother of invention, must have been a godless Stalinist. And a man hating feminist, too.

and both are a competition of interests that Liberals don't have the discipline to balance. Dream on LT your bullshit is just that.

What does this have to do with the proven historical fact that your ideals have brought us the Great Depression and a swollen national debt plus countless major scandals?

Oh wait, that's reality. In reality, your ideals are a failure, so let's not bring reality into this. Why don't you just go bug the Free Market Elf to read you some more of Fox News' Fairy Tales or something? I for one like reading The Somalian Laissez-Faire Paradise and the Tale of Two Trapped Miners. Remember the part where the miners failed to invest in Halliburton and were punished by having to keep working in the mines and the mine collapsed and they died? Hahahahahah what a hoot! Or the story about the guy who got a college degree and found out that his medical profession was wiped out by offshored tele surgery and he told himself "the cheese has just moved, not gone away" and went to get a degree in biotech and biotech went overseas and then he became an investor to pay his rent and his student loan and his stocks went south and he got cancer and couldn't pay for his treatments and died painfully and Bog sent him to Hell because he died poor? What about "The Emperor had no WMD's?" Good stuff, man, good stuff.

 

[phrodeau]

That you're an idiot?

You had a nice thread going up to this point.

Why do you do that shit?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

You had a nice thread going up to this point.

Why do you do that shit?

Because it was the right thing to do.

 

[Veryknowing]

They're trying to change the entire USA into a police state (if it isn't very nearly one already).

 

[Sean Renaud]

If only everybody around here was so coherent in there answers we might be able to get somewhere. Hell you'd think that a site with so many inteligent regulars would represent some sort of order that is rarely seen here.

Secure the borders by, as another person put it, bringing the national guard home from Iraq. Give people a reward for reporting illegals working in the US and fund it by taking it out of the asses of the illegals' employers. Nothing works quite like giving kids some Xbox 360 money in exchange for reporting an illegal immigrant maid.

Killer Plan. Though I still don't believe that we can leave Iraq. I hate to be brutal but I think the time for kiddy gloves has passed, we need to make those idiots fear and obey.

I initially supported Bush and the Iraq invasion, but by late 2003? I was utterly blown away at the Chimp's incompetence and the contradiction of the war propaganda by the hard facts.

I can't argue with the hard facts. (Though I'm part of the club that believes he moved the WMD's to Syria. I really think he only had a few scuds and some anthrax and wasn't a threat to anybody but perhaps Kuwait and Iran.) With that said I won't debate those points with you. I do believe however that dictators are evil and that we had enough information on Saddam to justify a war anytime we were willing to commit to it. I do believe that anybody with the power to stop a bully/dictator/tyrant has a moral right to do so when they can. We should have years ago and there is a list of other countries that we should hit. First however we have things right here that need to get done.

I've been a Republican since I was yea tall. I still am. These people that call themselves Republicans now are fucking rabid dogs, and ain't down with that.

You sure you're a Republican? I'm a Democrat I'm way more evil than you are.

We import a lot of our scientific talent. Our kids like sports more. Sports heroes make a pile while scientists take up plumbing to make ends meet. It's not like the former USSR, but it is bad.

Hey I already supported your education reform.

If they stop making oil then the execs themselves won't be able to get around. They wouldn't want to live in the chaos they created. But if they pushed America, we're more innovative than Republican oil industry cock suckers believe - we'd innovate our way right out of oil dependency. We can do it now, we are working on it now, and if there was a critical shortage? We would finish up the switch quick.

I think the oil execs would make sure that there companies made exactly, after expenses one cent less than would make them qualify for the the windfall tax. Then claim that there is an oil shortage coupled with unfair taxing. You know its funny I hate the idea of a Windfall Tax. I think its one of those socialist evils to shackle the rich and drag them down. At the same time I don't think I would complain at all if the government took over the gas industry. Mostly cus I have a hard time respecting it as a proffession for whatever reason. I'll call myself on being a silly hypocrit on this one to save you the trouble.

I agree with some privatization. But private companies do not take risks. Risks are what lead to major new discoveries and the sudden appearance of new infrastructure. The Internet would never have existed without the Government taking a huge risk and making DARPA. Historically, the military (Government spending by another name) lead innovation and civilian usage spawned from that. When society is lead by profitability over adventure and frontierism, we become stagnated. Or: where are our flying cars?

I finally got around to looking up DARPA and the history of the internet, and like you said it was a military lead innovation. That is entirely different from a socialistic advance. War is survival of the fittest, it is like capitalism but with violence. Now we could argue back and forth ad infinitum about how long it would have taken the private sector to develope similar technology. It would be an exercise in futility however because it simply didn't happen.

Flying cars have been continually proven impracticle. Engines with the power for flight require too damn much energy.

Industries stagnate when production costs are too high and profits are too low. You have to innovate in Capitalism or else somebody will come along and eat your lunch one day.

Onto socialism.

First you are right about there being a huge difference between Stalinism and true socialism. I'll also add that you admit there needs to be a reason to suceed. What is the purpose to suceed when you are going to be treated the same regardless? Why would you work extra hard to acheive something if it didn't matter? Even you admit that before we had capitalism we had nothing.

By the gods you confuse me LT. You make my brainmeat wish to escape my skull.

Capitalism vs socialism. You seem to believe that both can be used together but people can only have on way of life. Either you believe that people should be rewarded based on their individual talents. Or you believe that everybody deserves an equal share to everybody's labor. Its like reverse slavery, rather than the conquerers being the masters the conquered are the masters. Both are evil at the root.

 

[koalabear]

Both parties have the same ideals... get as much fucking money from everyone, no matter how you have to steal it.

Ya dumb fucking sheep.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

If only everybody around here was so coherent in there answers we might be able to get somewhere. Hell you'd think that a site with so many inteligent regulars would represent some sort of order that is rarely seen here.

That's the thing - there aren't many intelligent readers here.

Killer Plan. Though I still don't believe that we can leave Iraq. I hate to be brutal but I think the time for kiddy gloves has passed, we need to make those idiots fear and obey.

Why? What threat do they pose to us?
We didn't conquer the Soviet Union by invading them. Guess how we beat them.

I can't argue with the hard facts. (Though I'm part of the club that believes he moved the WMD's to Syria. I really think he only had a few scuds and some anthrax and wasn't a threat to anybody but perhaps Kuwait and Iran.) With that said I won't debate those points with you. I do believe however that dictators are evil and that we had enough information on Saddam to justify a war anytime we were willing to commit to it. I do believe that anybody with the power to stop a bully/dictator/tyrant has a moral right to do so when they can. We should have years ago and there is a list of other countries that we should hit. First however we have things right here that need to get done.

How do we decide which dictators to remove and which ones not to?

The ones who are dangerous to America? The ones with WMD's? That includes China's and North Korea's dictators and excludes Saddam...

You sure you're a Republican? I'm a Democrat I'm way more evil than you are.

I believe in putting people to work. The Republicans nowadays believe in getting rid of the jobs.

I think the oil execs would make sure that there companies made exactly, after expenses one cent less than would make them qualify for the the windfall tax. Then claim that there is an oil shortage coupled with unfair taxing. You know its funny I hate the idea of a Windfall Tax. I think its one of those socialist evils to shackle the rich and drag them down. At the same time I don't think I would complain at all if the government took over the gas industry. Mostly cus I have a hard time respecting it as a proffession for whatever reason. I'll call myself on being a silly hypocrit on this one to save you the trouble.

Then people would switch to alternative energy faster and the oil companies would run into the dirt. Plus they'd have to come visit us at Starbuck's sometime and face the music.

I finally got around to looking up DARPA and the history of the internet, and like you said it was a military lead innovation. That is entirely different from a socialistic advance. War is survival of the fittest, it is like capitalism but with violence.

But it is Government funding. Now go look up the pentium and military research.

Now we could argue back and forth ad infinitum about how long it would have taken the private sector to develope similar technology. It would be an exercise in futility however because it simply didn't happen.

Exactly. Private industry would never have done it. It was too risky.

Flying cars have been continually proven impracticle. Engines with the power for flight require too damn much energy.

Proven impractical by whom?

Industries stagnate when production costs are too high and profits are too low. You have to innovate in Capitalism or else somebody will come along and eat your lunch one day.

Or you can resort to patent and IP laws.

Corporations use big Government far more than you and I would.

Onto socialism.

First you are right about there being a huge difference between Stalinism and true socialism. I'll also add that you admit there needs to be a reason to suceed. What is the purpose to suceed when you are going to be treated the same regardless? Why would you work extra hard to acheive something if it didn't matter? Even you admit that before we had capitalism we had nothing.

Actually, that was intended as sarcasm. Before capitalism we had necessity. And war. Humans got along just fine before capitalism.

Who paid Copernicus to do his research? Who paid the inventor of the wheel? Hell, forget about profit, advancements have come even when there is negative profits to be had even for talking about researching it.

Who put a man in space first?

By the gods you confuse me LT. You make my brainmeat wish to escape my skull.

Capitalism vs socialism. You seem to believe that both can be used together but people can only have on way of life. Either you believe that people should be rewarded based on their individual talents. Or you believe that everybody deserves an equal share to everybody's labor. Its like reverse slavery, rather than the conquerers being the masters the conquered are the masters. Both are evil at the root.

I don't believe it is either one way or another. The world's actions proves society in general doesn't believe it, either. America is a balancing act of socialism and capitalism as it is, so whether or not you or I believe both can be used together is irrelevant - it is already happening in the world's best place to immigrate and live (for now).

Total socialism punishes success; total laissez-faire negates the basic concept of civilization itself.

We can agree that living in a purely socialist state is bad, but I do not know if you realize how crude and uncivilized society would be if it were laissez-faire (capitalist).

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's the thing - there aren't many intelligent readers here.

Perhaps this is my youth speaking. I believe that most people are somewhat inteligent.

Why? What threat do they pose to us?
We didn't conquer the Soviet Union by invading them. Guess how we beat them.

It really isn't a matter of them posing a threat to us. Its a matter of the government they had was evil and the government most likely to rise from the chaos will most likely be evil. And it will be our fault. I would think that the Greeks, Romans, Ottomans, and British all proved that conquered peoples are on the whole better off conquered because they benifit from learning from a "more advanced" I use the term loosely for I know no better way to explain what I mean) civilization. Fuck the middle east. There is no excuse for the states of India and most of Africa. We won't fix it though cus we don't care and it isn't our problem and we gain nothing from it.

How do we decide which dictators to remove and which ones not to? The ones who are dangerous to America? The ones with WMD's? That includes China's and North Korea's dictators and excludes Saddam...

Tough question. My answer would be the ones that can be conquered without an unnacceptable loss of (in this case) American life. If you could find sufficent American volunteers to go fight the Iraq war, and then the Iran war I'd be all about it. (note by this I mean volunteers who know exactly what they are going to do, not what we have right now where they signed up to defend the US and got sent to Iraq. I mean a literal. We are preparing to go to war with Iraq. Here is why. We need X men and women to serve in theatre.

I believe in putting people to work. The Republicans nowadays believe in getting rid of the jobs.

You know how I don't argue with you when you're right?

Then people would switch to alternative energy faster and the oil companies would run into the dirt. Plus they'd have to come visit us at Starbuck's sometime and face the music. .

Probably. Since I believe that alternative forms of energy are out there and are practical I won't argue this particular point. Though I believe if it were truly as simple as that somebody would have figured it out by now.

But it is Government funding. Now go look up the pentium and military research.

I won't argue this point with you, mostly cus we are both close enough to right we just seem to have trouble admitting it. The government did fund it and many other things. War is the absolute mother neccity and I have a hard time separating war from capitalism. Seems to me if you fail in capitalism you starve to death, if you fail in war you get shot. End result is the same no? So motivations would be similar among logical beings no? Hell if notthing quicker because being shot to death is quicker than starving.

Exactly. Private industry would never have done it. It was too risky.

Did the government fund cell phones? Did the government fund television? Private industry won't move until there is profit to be made. The government can take certain risks that private industry can't. They get funded regardless of if they produce a goddamn thing or not. Private industry will not take routes that they don't see profit and results in. Which will result in certain things being overlooked, possibly for ever. (I believe that eventually some kid in his garage would have figured out the internet even if it took MUCH longer. But like I said its pointless to argue cus it simply didn't happen.) I

Proven impractical by whom?

Honestly I lack the engineering skills to explain it all. From what I remember reading it comes down to the amount of energy needed to acheive and maintain flight eats up a lot of gas. As planes all the designes that were developed tended to be underpowered and at risk of falling out of the sky. As cars they ate up gas at an unbelievable rate. There have to be other ways however. No shit. The technology didn't exist the last time somebody cared to try. Perhaps it does now, perhaps not.

If the government could do it though why haven't they deveolped it? Hummers were designed and produced for the military first then changed for civilian use.

Or you can resort to patent and IP laws.

Corporations use big Government far more than you and I would.

Fair enough. I won't argue one way or the other cus honestly I'm not sure what I feel about those laws. One one hand I would be pissed off if me and my dad invented a flying car in my garage right now and my neighbor stole my plans and for whatever reason could make them faster/better/easier/cheaper than me before I got a fair shot at it. From what I understand (which isn't much on this issue) the current patent laws are pretty good cus tech ones only last a few years.

Actually, that was intended as sarcasm. Before capitalism we had necessity. And war. Humans got along just fine before capitalism.

Who paid Copernicus to do his research? Who paid the inventor of the wheel? Hell, forget about profit, advancements have come even when there is negative profits to be had even for talking about researching it.

Who put a man in space first?

I still stand by my previous opinion on war. Anytime that your lifestyle isn't based around the belief that the guy next to you will take care of you and you him it is capitalism in my eyes. Which might mean that capitalism is primitive because I don't believe that anybody could naturally come to socialism as a plan. Nor could they come to the conclusion that flying machines could be built just so that I'm being fair.

The inventor of the wheel got to eat. Got to put his tribe in a better position. Probably gave some of his extra food to other tribes for weapons, or just convinced them to let him live. I doubt he gave it to every human out of the goodness of his heart.

I won't argue Cop. His dad was rich. He didn't have to work. I suppose you could argue though that in a socialist enviroment people of his inteligence wouldn't have to struggle with the rest of us and could devote more time to learning. Anyway you are probably right on him.

Serious question. When has there been a negative for discovery?

I don't believe it is either one way or another. The world's actions proves society in general doesn't believe it, either. America is a balancing act of socialism and capitalism as it is, so whether or not you or I believe both can be used together is irrelevant - it is already happening in the world's best place to immigrate and live (for now).

Total socialism punishes success; total laissez-faire negates the basic concept of civilization itself.

We can agree that living in a purely socialist state is bad, but I do not know if you realize how crude and uncivilized society would be if it were laissez-faire (capitalist).

But it isn't balanced. One thing we both agree on is that the US is going down the tubes, economically amongst other ways. I personally believe that this is the result of trying to make the world work in two opposite directions.

It is the end result of teaching Inteligent Design. Either Darwin was on the right track and animals survive because of certain traits they do and do not have. The ability to catch food, escape predators, resist disease, adjust to local climates etc. They change over time.

Or God said so and that is the bottom line.

 

[MechaBlade]

and Democrats are left with cleaning up the mess they've inflicted upon this country, what would you do if you were one of the ones headed into office next year?

What's your plan?

Sounds good, except I'd be sure to try and put money into arts and music programs in schools along with science. Also, I think "infant space tourism" is about as unlikely as a man on Mars.

Since Republicans have instilled in America's collective conscious that perception is everything, I'd propose the following changes when collective sanity returns in the form of a Democratic president in January 2009:

1. Operation Cleanup Bush's Folly

2. Repeal the taxcuts on America's wealthiest 1% and call it FairShare.

3. George W. Bush War Tax

4. Start a monthly public relations campaign against Supreme Court Justice Sam Alito, detailing his evasive replies about abortion during his confirmaiton hearings. When Alito finally does lead the charge to overturn Roe V. Wade on a technicality, triumphantly say "See? We TOLD you this would happen!"

5. Introduce legislation to prohibit anyone who has admitted to having homosexual sex from adopting children, and make it retroactive 10 years. Sure, it's prolly unconstitional, but the opportunity to take Capn Amatrixca's kid away from him will make him a Born-again Democrat in a heartbeat!

Sounds good, except 4 and 5, which I imagine aren't serious.

 

[~hellbaby~]

and Democrats are left with cleaning up the mess they've inflicted upon this country, what would you do if you were one of the ones headed into office next year?

What's your plan?

Mine is to grow America out of its debt. That is, to grow the incomes of every day Americans - the people who made this nation great - and bring back the good paying jobs that traitorous US corporations sent overseas. Enact an absolute ban on medical and financial companies processing any personal information overseas, as well as stricter standards for domestic companies to protect consumer data. I will piss in the Republican Party's face and tell them to kiss off - there will be a zero tolerance policy for the "free trading" of private personal information in this country when I am done. Of course, that policy will exclude Republicans, since they are opposed to the concept of protecting one's personal information.

Then I'll secure the borders and tell Mexico to piss off, too. I'll even shut off Mexican goods for a day to show them how much they need American consumer dollars. Ok, just kidding about that. But I would push Congress for a big fat Federal tax on all that money going out of the US to Mexico. I think 25% should suffice. It'll go toward fixing our overwhelmed health care system and hospitals that the illegals are bringing to their knees.

I'll push Congress to revoke the RealID Act and USAPATRIOT Act, and put an end to domestic spying. I'll put an end to Bush's allowing Osama Bin Laden to hide and create a national bogey man, and bring his ass in once and for all. I'll return US policy to the "speak softly and carry a big stick" approach of diplomacy and good deeds first, then whupping someone's ass when they threaten us. No more of this "I THINK they have WMD's, so we'll invade... oops, no WMD's, I meant to say we'll DEMOCRATIZE them!"

I'll establish a national academic olympics program and strengthen scientific grant programs, among other things, to encourage more students to pursue the sciences.

Oil industry profits will be subject to a progressive windfall profits tax that will be directed to fund research into an alternative energy infrastructure. I'll propose that bill to have a sunset clause (2015).

I'll have the space industry kickstarted back into an explorative and frontier mindset to supplement the stagnant, satellite maintenance and telescope launching chores that comprises its functionality today. By the time I leave office there'll be an infant space tourism industry and talk of a space freight infrastructure.

And on every Labor Day, I'm going to give a speech commemorating the contributions that America's working class has made to this great nation.

You know, This administration is the first in history that tries to play off peoples fear instead of optimism and strength. When Pearl Harbor was attacked the message was not 'be afraid, be very afraid'. Paul Revere didn't come riding in saying 'look what they've done, they are coming to get us'. Eventually the public will tire of the references to 911 as a way to justify the illegal activities the administration is conducting.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If it hasn't happened yet what makes you think it will anytime soon?