Artists of Erotica...

[BlackSnake]

that is craftsmanship.
perhaps a demonstration of "artistry".

BUt we are speaking of VISUAL ART....(for the most part)

Well, I guess you're right there.

 

[Guest]

 

[TheLittleWolf]

So, what do you think about the banner in my signature, huh?

On the surface I like it. Where can I get one?
The only problem that I see is that the words "Erotic Art Threads" should stand out more. They seem to get lost.

And on the subsurface I wondered why one of my pieces wasn't chosen for the background. . (There goes that artist ego rising to the surface, I'll have to break out my ID and beat the Ego into submission again.)

 

[TheLittleWolf]

that is craftsmanship.
perhaps a demonstration of "artistry".

BUt we are speaking of VISUAL ART....(for the most part)

Hmmm...
Craftsmanship and Visual Art.

My day job is in theater. Which is a performing art, but I am not an actor and wouldn't be caught dead in front of an audience. I work on the visual art side of theatre. I build and design the sets. There is something called Stage Craft but when you master your craft you become an artist. Mastery of ones craft lifts the end product up several rungs of the visual ladder.
(I've got a box full of awards that I've recieved over the years just because I have mastered the art of set construction)

I could go off on a tangent regarding performance artists but I'll leave that one to Anna Voog.

I will go off on a rant about how their is not enough art in the average persons life here in the USA. This I blame mostly on the the government. And the government cutting funding to education left and right. The first thing the schools have to cut is art classes. With out the young minds exposed to art how will they be able to develop an apprectiation for art. People do not have to know how to create art to be able to appreciate it. But a little education about the art you are looking at makes you appreciate the piece even more.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

First, BlackSnake; Thank you for the compliment and for seeing any piece of my work as fit for your banner. You're very kind.

The conversation here between the few of you has been interesting. My own personal views are that "art" is anything created by the minds of men and women, and then put forth into a physical existence. Whether or not that makes it "good" art or "bad" art or something in between becomes a choice to be made by the partakers of the creation.

Going back to the days of cave paintings and seeing the progression into, say, renaissance artworks, no one said, "Oh! That's not real art because it wasn't created from the charcoal of a campfire from a cave." It was artwork because it was created by someone. "Good" and "bad" are the labels and everyone outside of the artist, the creator, are the labelers.

I have a very hard time with people who are all hung up on art having to convey a message of some sort. Why does it have to be so over-thought??? If I do and illustration of an apple tree with ripe apples on it then that is what it is. If I do an illustration of a woman's genitalia and it is young and perky and pleasing to the eye, then that's what I meant for it to be. Why over-complicate that thought???

Tools are tools. Creation is creation. We do what we do because it is in our personal natures to so, and there's no escaping it.

The only correct critics are the ones who not only came before us, but who were, or are, creators themselves. Everyone else is just an audience with their own own views and opinions, but with little or nothing to back those opinions and views up with.

Not that I'm trying to be an ingrate or a snob about the comments from others about my works or anyone elses. I am always greatful for a kind word and take careful consideration of criticism. After all, it is ultimately the decision of the artist to decide who to listen to and who not to listen to.

 

[QuietlyMakingNoise]

I have a very hard time with people who are all hung up on art having to convey a message of some sort. Why does it have to be so over-thought??? If I do and illustration of an apple tree with ripe apples on it then that is what it is. If I do an illustration of a woman's genitalia and it is young and perky and pleasing to the eye, then that's what I meant for it to be. Why over-complicate that thought???

Halo,

I have to agree with you, much to my surprise! LOL

Onto my real point. The artists intentions are rarely known by the observer. Thus any meaning we see on the art, is our own and not necessarily close to that of the artist. I remember clearly doing a piece of artwork many, many years ago and people making such a deal out of the use of color variations I used and how I was communicating the storminess of the situation.

Do you know what I thought of it? I thought I had a terrible time working with the water colors and could not get a good blend of an early evening sky. Now, talk about missing the message. They still have it up, and I still think the same - it's a lousy work of color managment in that early work.

Go figure!

Paul

 

[Halo_n_horns]

Do you know what I thought of it? I thought I had a terrible time working with the water colors and could not get a good blend of an early evening sky. Now, talk about missing the message. They still have it up, and I still think the same - it's a lousy work of color managment in that early work.

Go figure!

Paul

With a number of artists, it was those early works that showed the best signs of the greatness to come.

 

[Guest]

 

[Halo_n_horns]

The Little Wolf,
I agree that Art education is sorely lacking in this country. I would put literacy as higher priorty, though.

Halo_n_Horns,
maybe that is all "art" is; just a realization of the imagination. IF that is the case then...Clothing is art, cars are art, dumptrucks, sign posts, hammers, sidewalks, roads, plumbing, toilets, garbage cans, wrist watches.

Of course "sidewalks (in general) are "bad art"...right?

Unless made by a skilled craftsman/ARTison...who lays brick in such sensuous patterns... smooth with subtle color variation taking us on a journey beyond our physical one.

LOAD O' CRAP.
It is my opinion that we should define "art" (speaking visually now) as a human creation with a visual message. beyond functionallity (but certainly can INCLUDE that). I do not feel that I am "over thinking"...but I am thinking and it is my strong belief that a true Artist MUST think...if not, I don't believe one will grow in one's Artistry.



Think about that

Individuality is a wonderful thing.

I'm of the belief that all creation is art because art, by definition, is creation. Purpose is something that is either built into it or found in it after the creative process has happened. I have no problem seeing a sidewalk as a piece of art because labor and thought went into it. The same goes for the Stop signs and all the other mundane things that are found in our lives. Special? No. Art? Maybe.

It seems that what you're actually doing is not defining what is art per se, but asigning purpose and meaning; the mundane and functional; the thought-provoking, passionate and emotional; the "that'll look cool hanging in my living room."

Some months ago my wife and I did this thing they have here called "The River and Wine Walk." It's a groovy little collaboration between a bunch of businesses downtown along the river, many of which are art galleries, little coffee and/or book shops, etc. We were in one of the art galleries and viewing some darker art by one of the artists. One piece had me pretty enamoured, until the gallery owner slid up next to me.

She started rattling off the artist's name and accomplishments and the mediums that she worked in, and then she starts deciphering and explaining all the different symbolisms of the piece I was admiring. I let her say her piece. She seemed proud of her knowledge and perfectly at ease with hearing herself talk.

When she was done, and by this time a number of people had gathered to listen in, she asked me what I thought of it. I said, "Hell! I was perfectly happy just thinking that it was a cool piece of work." I got a refill of wine and moved on to the next business with a number of chuckles either at me or for me as I exited.

Perhaps I was an asshole by saying that. Or maybe I'm a simpleton. Or maybe my views about art are just simplistic and unfettered by all the definitions and labels and controversy that people seem to want to attach to a piece of work. I'm contented with joy of seeing the work rather than the effort analyzing it.

 

[4degrees]

fun with psp.

damn i love this shit.


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/curtis46n2/greenboys.jpg

 

[Guest]

 

[Halo_n_horns]

I wonder if there's anyone else paying attention to this that would care to weigh in with their opinion on the subject? Or are we just rambling on with one another?

 

[Guest]

 

[BlackSnake]

I wonder if there's anyone else paying attention to this that would care to weigh in with their opinion on the subject? Or are we just rambling on with one another?

Halo, some people learn best from listening.

I've created a few pieces that I posted here that I jerk off to when I see them. It's the emotion I get from the "ART", not just what my intent was. It is the feeling that I have achieved my goal with the piece.

For instance, Halo's "scary lady piece". It evolked different emotion in me. In whole and in parts. If he hadn't responded to my comments, I wouldn't have had a clue as to his intent. I only know what it made me think of. The comments are a few pages back.

Now, I've seen artwork that I thought was crappy. Mainly, it had to do with the price tag associated with it.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

I gave my two cents earlier, but you, Halo, have been far more eloquent. A lot of what you're saying is how I feel about it, I just can't seem to put it into words as well.

I make what I call "art." In reality, what they are are images. Some would call them art, some would not. This argument is like politics and religion: it'll go on forever, with some believing one thing, and some believing another, and all must agree to disagree.

 

[Guest]

 

[BlackSnake]

BlackSnake,
so..would you say that now KNOWING Halo's intent makes the piece "richer"?

or no effect at all?

although I advocate for intelligent inquiry, study, introspection I also wholeheartedly support the emotional imapct and recation to art and even in creating it.


I do not feel that a price tag affects my opinion of a work...it DOES however affect my opinion of the seller.

Halo's comments did not have an effect on my impression, but it let me know that he put some thought into it, instead of just drawing a naked woman.

The price tag alters my opinion for some work. When my intent is to purchase and the price of the work gives me the impression that I'm not getting my money's worth.

"I'm not paying three hundred dollars for a rusty paint can welded to a bent iron rod. However, I'd glady pay that amount for the lump clay that looks like a perfect tit on one side and a set of butt-cheeks on the other...that's clevage not butt-cheeks. Anyways, it gives me all kinds of dirty thoughts.

 

[Guest]

 

[BlackSnake]

To me the price tag should have MUCH more influence about a piece than knowledge of artist's intent.

$300 for sculpt influences you to appreciate it more? less?...your opinion of the piece is what give YOU a measure of value...not the other way around.

I doubt that you would pay ANY price for the can/rod piece...it is not the price that makes you dislike it. you are assessing a value to cost ratio and deciding if it is proportionate. the intrinsic value of the piece does not change wit the price tag.

With art quality = value:

poor quality = less cost

masterful skill = higher cost

 

[Guest]

 

[QuietlyMakingNoise]

Just to keep make sure you know...

I'm not a forum type of guy, but since I got onto this particular thread, I've been reading and giving it a great deal of thought.

Art, for me - perhaps reiterating what I said earlier - is in the eye of the beholder. Knowing what someone meant to bring out in the piece is great, and sometimes I feel they were successful, and other times I don't see it at all. It does not make the artwork any better, or any worse: only my perseption of it.

Having said that, if only one person has an opinion about the art what I said makes sense. If everyone that see's the work thinks the same then there is consensus.

My dad told me many times that is one person tells you that you are drunk, you may argue with them. But, if two or more tell you that you are drunk - go lay down. I don't always agree with that, but I think it fits in what's being discussed here. I never liked my water color, others (including Halo in here, LOL) said that it may have pointed to some good quality. I still think that I could and should have done better with the piece of art. Other's got a totally different meaning from it.

It doesn't make me, or them wrong - just a different perspective.

Well, enough rambling...

Paul

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[BlackSnake]

ok.


but that is the art influencing value/cost.

NOT you influenced by cost as to value.
(which is what you intially stated:

ferinstance:
this Porche is really cool BECAUSE it costs $50,000

this Reliant is really cool BECAUSE it costs $50,000

this Reliant is really cool because it costs $100

this Porche is really cool because it costs $100

this reliant is really crappy because it costs $50,000

do you see"....the cost should not affect your opinion of the item...only influence whether to BUY it maybe.

the $100 reliant is a great deal...but the $100 Porche in many ways is a greater deal (assuming that both are new and in working order....and not considering gas, insurance and parts)

The intrinsic value of each has NOTHINg to do with it's cost/price tag.

Not really, because I wouldn't call the reliant a crappy car unless it costs $50,000

Otherwise, reasonably priced I would judge it other factors.

The Porche at $100 is way awesome! I'd screw that puppy up the tail pipe for that price. It'll be my new girlfriend...Hey baby, what's up

Cost is usually base on people's willingness to buy. (Econ 101) The reality of high priced artwork is that potential buyers will apply a more critical eye. The measure scale become higher. Flawlessness in mastery of all the elements of good art are DEMANDED.

 

[Guest]