Are the "Fighting Whities" offensive?

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Should the feds ban that "racist" name?

WASHINGTON, DC -- The surprising popularity of the "Fighting Whities," a college basketball team whose sarcastic name was intended to get revenge for Indian-named sports teams like the Redskins, shows why the government shouldn't have the power to determine which sports team names are racist.

"As the Fighting Whities prove, racism is not a matter of black and white," said George Getz, the Libertarian Party's press secretary. "After all, what government bureaucrat could ever have guessed that white people would love the Fighting Whities?

"That's why the government should not be in the business of deciding what sports team names are offensive. Racism is such a subtle and unmeasurable thing that one-size-fits-all government mandates just don't work."

The Fighting Whities is the brainchild of several Native Americans at the University of Northern Colorado, who became angry when a local high school refused to change the name of its team, the Fighting Reds.

In protest, they named their intramural basketball team the Fighting Whities, and created a stereotypical mascot: A 1950s-style white man in a suit and tie, carrying a briefcase. They also adopted a slogan: "Every thang's gonna be all white!"

While intended to "turn the tables" on insensitive whites who support teams like the Redskins, the Braves, and the Indians, the reaction shocked the team founders: Caucasians loved the name, and bombarded them with congratulatory e-mails and requests to buy Fighting Whities jerseys.

"Some people don't realize what we're trying to do," said a dejected Solomon Little Owl, who helped organize the team.

Ironically, the intended-to-be-offensive-to-whites team name was created just as government demands to ban Indian-named sports teams have been gaining momentum.

In April 2001, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights said Indian-themed sports teams may "violate anti-discrimination laws," and should be dropped. In addition, a number of county school boards around the USA have banned Native American team names and mascots.

It's a nationwide debate, because as many as 3,000 professional, college, and high school sports teams have Indian-themed names.

However, decisions about appropriate names for sports teams should be made by team members, owners, coaches, parents, and perhaps local school officials -- not federal government bureaucrats, said Getz.

"The government is a blunt instrument: All it can do is prohibit, mandate, or bribe," he said. "If bureaucrats tried to use those blunt instruments to regulate sports team names, they would offend as many people as they pleased, since the issue of racism is very complex -- as the case of the Fighting Whities proves.

"After all, if the federal government banned Indian sports team names, it would have to ban the Fighting Whities, too -- since the Fighting Whities is as 'racist' as the Fighting Reds. And if the government took that action, it would outrage many whites who don't find the name racist at all."

That's why the government should just stay out of the sports team name debate, said Getz.

"The fact is, people's opinions about what constitutes racism are as divergent as the color of their skin, the content of their character, and their view of the world," he said. "That's why the government should not impose a monochromatic view on a wonderful, unpredictable rainbow of opinion."

 

[clit_licker30]

No! it is funny as hell. The people of the offended classes, whoever they may be. should lighten up!

It seems only the activists are offended by percieved slights, but they use this so called insult to further their careers.

Go BRAVES!!!!!

 

[SlowHand89]

I think it's a great name.

I personally would be a fan of the team just to support that which they are trying to do. I think it is brilliant.

Of course, it would help if they can play a good game as well.

 

[Silverluna]

Well...I'm a bit divided on the subject....I am 1/8th Cherokee and part of me says...well why stir up trouble with the Team name? But another part says it IS worth the trouble that is created...on account of the reactions and realitization that "we" as N.Americans aren't always Braves, Red, Warriors, or Shamens!!!
We are people just like the "whites" are....

I am not downing the pride I feel to be mostly white...but then I am damn proud to be Cherokee....(make any sense? i hope so...)
~Silver~

 

[clit_licker30]

Well...I'm a bit divided on the subject....I am 1/8th Cherokee and part of me says...well why stir up trouble with the Team name? But another part says it IS worth the trouble that is created...on account of the reactions and realitization that "we" as N.Americans aren't always Braves, Red, Warriors, or Shamens!!!
We are people just like the "whites" are....

I am not downing the pride I feel to be mostly white...but then I am damn proud to be Cherokee....(make any sense? i hope so...)
~Silver~

Hell we are all a mutt bread of something or another. Are we really that thin skinned? Are we the (Americians) the United States of the Offended? People with thin skin are stupid.

 

[Silverluna]

thank you clitlicker.....

 

[lavender]

 

[bored1]

I think its funny as hell Instead of doing this symbolic nonsense perhaps the time would be better spent trying to solve some of the issues that face many of the tribes still on reservations in this country.....But that takes real work and commitment........Same with the crap in South Carolina petty symbolism that accomplishes nothing..........

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by lavender
When I saw this bullshit on TV I should have known Todd would post about it.

When we are thinking about what offends, we shouldn't look at what offends us but listen to the people who feel slighted. That's the point. It doesn't matter if "fighting whities" is offensive. What matters is if these characterizations of Native Americans is offensive to them.

Not surprising we see this a bit differently. I thought their selection of a team name/mascot with the intent to offend was funny though completely hypocritical since they claim that no one should be permitted to have a name/mascot the might offend someone (no freedom of choice).

What I find particularly interesting is your implicit assertion that my right to freedom of speech and thought ends when you decide to be offended by it.

The Libertarian spokesman is right. This is not a problem except for those who are advocates of censorship for that's all this and other aspects of political correctness (including hate crimes) are; a prelude to censorship, to government prescription of "proper thought and speech".

And the people who advocate it are frightening to me because I'm never sure if it's out of ignorance or malice they come. Not that either is good, but ignorance can be changed.
Edited for spelling

 

[kotori]

In protest, they named their intramural basketball team the Fighting Whities, and created a stereotypical mascot: A 1950s-style white man in a suit and tie, carrying a briefcase. They also adopted a slogan: "Every thang's gonna be all white!"

Todd, does this mean your av is in copyright violation?

Parody and Satire is a good thing.

 

[Zamdrist]

Should the feds ban that "racist" name?

This is rich.

And how does someone trace their heritage back in eighths?

 

[Skibum]

It's a bullshit issue. There is no reason to change the names of teams. The Redskins, or the Braves, or the Indians were named to honor the fact that Native Americans are a part of the heritage of all Americans. If some people are too thin skinned to accept that, fuck 'em.

I am personally proud of the fact that some of my ancestors were Native Americans. And I am proud that some of my fellow Americans have seen fit to honor them by taking Native American themes for their sports teams.

 

[Silverluna]

Re: Re: Are the "Fighting Whities" offensive?

This is rich.

And how does someone trace their heritage back in eighths?

My great great grandmother was full blooded....you do the math!

 

[scylis]

Re: Re: Re: Are the "Fighting Whities" offensive?

My great great grandmother was full blooded....you do the math!

same here! (odd... hmm)

wait, shouldn't that be 1/16th Cherokee? (great grandmother/father=1/2, grandmother/father=1/4, mother/father=1/8, you=1/16)

 

[Silverluna]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Are the "Fighting Whities" offensive?

Erm....maybe It was Great Grandma? o.0

same here! (odd... hmm)

wait, shouldn't that be 1/16th Cherokee? (great grandmother/father=1/2, grandmother/father=1/4, mother/father=1/8, you=1/16)

 

[Unclebill]

Re: Re: Are the "Fighting Whities" offensive?

Originally posted by Zamdrist
This is rich.

And how does someone trace their heritage back in eighths?

I'm still trying to figure out why it matters!

 

[gleam]

Yes, I agree with you as far as that goes, but I think the issue is one of legality: should the government ban names that some people may find offensive?

Out of curiosity, what if the team had been named the "Fighting Pussies?" Grounds for banning?

No really, they have a cat as their macot! Honest!

When I saw this bullshit on TV I should have known Todd would post about it.
>One of the first days I was here, I went to the student health office.
>Went and asked what I should do to get my health coverage topped up to
>what I was used to (no charge, no deductibles, anywhere in the country).
>
>I was very rudely told that the coverage was the best one could expect in
>the country, I told her I was from Canada, and then she spouted off
>something about long waiting lists.
>
>I've generally been unimpressed with them aside from that, after some more
>recent experiences.
>
>Maybe she was just having a bad day, but I wouldn't call this a 'higher
>standard of care'.
>
>How much more do drug companies gouge American hospitals than Canadian
>ones?
When we are thinking about what offends, we shouldn't look at what offends us but listen to the people who feel slighted. That's the point. It doesn't matter if "fighting whities" is offensive. What matters is if these characterizations of Native Americans is offensive to them.

 

[gleam]

For some reason, the quoted material from my last post got mangled. Here it is again, more or less:

Yes, I agree with you as far as that goes, but I think the issue is one of legality: should the government ban names that some people may find offensive?

Out of curiosity, what if the team had been named the "Fighting Pussies"? with a cat for a mascot. Grounds for banning?

When I saw this bullshit on TV I should have known Todd would post about it.

When we are thinking about what offends, we shouldn't look at what offends us but listen to the people who feel slighted. That's the point. It doesn't matter if "fighting whities" is offensive. What matters is if these characterizations of Native Americans is offensive to them.

 

[Sir Alex 4 U]

I understand how some people are offended by certain sports team names. But aren't there always people offended by nearly anything? Is there such a thing as a name that isn't offensive to someone?

I believe intent is important. If we keep banning names, we will be left with nothing but team number one, team number two, etc.

Censorship is nothing but the weak trying to make themselves powerful. Beware of it, as this very forum could be banned as offensive.

 

[bored1]

I understand how some people are offended by certain sports team names. But aren't there always people offended by nearly anything? Is there such a thing as a name that isn't offensive to someone?

I believe intent is important. If we keep banning names, we will be left with nothing but team number one, team number two, etc.

Censorship is nothing but the weak trying to make themselves powerful. Beware of it, as this very forum could be banned as offensive.

I like the idea of team #1 #2 etc then they can all play to a tie,so nobodys selfesteem is hurt because they lost

 

[Sir Alex 4 U]

I like the idea of team #1 #2 etc then they can all play to a tie,so nobodys selfesteem is hurt because they lost

Interesting notion, but doesn't that eliminate the idea of competition in the first place? Besides, if your team is number one, then others might get upset because your number makes them feel less important!

Life is full of disappointments. Trying to make everyone equal succeeds only in making everyone less.

 

[RisiaSkye]

I went to a high school whose team name was the Redskins. We were 17 miles from the Navajo Reservation, and played reservation teams almost exclusively. We had the "whitest" team in the district. None of the schools were offended, they saw it as a desire among whites to be as "tough" as were the warriors of American Indian heritage.

Personally, I think the Fighting Whities is screamingly funny. A few weeks ago, someone brought me a clipping about it, because they knew it would make me smile. I think the idea behind it was a good one, but I also think the response is very telling, and indicative of the way in which we will actually effect change in this country when it comes to racism.

There is a point at which sensitivity becomes censorship; I'd rather offend people constantly than censor anyone.
Racism won't go away by imposing censorship. Making everyone fair game for the ridiculous reduction of mascots seems like something a lot closer to fair play in my mind. If white people want to buy into stereotypes directed at themselves, let them. Ignorance is ignorance, and it cuts all ways.

Then again, I saw no reason for Hawaii to stop being called the Rainbows, either. They changed it, though, because (especially in light of the HI gay marriage law) they thought it suggested the teams were queer. BFD if it did; I thought it was fun. It's the fact that being seen as queer bothered them that irks me.

 

[Baron]

This is an intramural basketball team. Which means, it's not the official school nickname. Which means, it's a whole lot of nothing, because next semester or whenever every college in the country is going to have a "Fighting Whities" team in their rec league, and a bunch of similarly crude names. Some feminists in some basketball league will call themselves the "Roaring Clits" or something and try to get attention that way.

All very amusing though.

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by RisiaSkye
. . . There is a point at which sensitivity becomes censorship; I'd rather offend people constantly than censor anyone. . .

While I seldom set out to be offensive, I will do it on occasion. And I feel much safer living in a world where anyone is free to say or think anything they wish, not matter how stupid, inane, offensive or ridiculous than living in a world with Big Brother listening to every word in order to assure feedback is provided to promote politically proper and acceptable thoughts and words.

I find the advocates of political correctness frightening, especially when they try to tell me they advocate freedom. I understand the dichotomy and consequent hypocrisy of these stated positions but it seems far too many peope don't get it.

And when it comes to the racists, I'd much rather have them openly stating their ignorant, idiotic views publicly. That way, I know who they are and who are their followers and like believers. And when it comes to choosing my associations, I know that I do not share some major moral valuations with them, hence I can make a better informed choice in whom I avoid.

 

[Lasz]

Spekaing of Sports teams names

I met a person here at college and her school building was mainly funded by donations by a group called the Klu Klux Klan.

Their mascot is the Red Dragon, (similar to the leader of the KKK). The KKK was once actually based out of her town.

The distinction isn't directly linked, but obviously impled.

Should they change their mascot?



laz