Are people really religious?

[PacificBlue]

True but you can touch, see and feel politics.

How can you touch, see, and feel politics?


What is your explination for the afterlife? What do you think happens to us when we die? (I really want to know, I'm not trying to instigate a fight here)

 

[Lou Cypher]

I think a person creates their own personal hell on earth, if they're not careful...

 

[ranajja]

I know, I know, I gotta get a new song...

Perhaps it's because Angels (ghosts?) and Miracles (inexplicable cures?) have been witnessed but God hasn't.

And if He's going to manifest himself in Angels and Miracles why not show himself properly so that we can all get faith...

*singing*

Don't you get me wrong, don't you get me wrong, now...
I just wanna know, I just want to know...

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ,
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?

Jesus Christ, Superstar
Do you think you're who they say you are?




The point is, pp, honey...how many times and in how many ways must He manifest himself before you make the decision to believe? Besides, forcing faith into someone just ain't cool.

 

[p_p_man]

What is your explination for the afterlife? What do you think happens to us when we die? (I really want to know, I'm not trying to instigate a fight here)

I know you're not .

I have written what I think on other posts in the past but it's probably about time I put it down properly so that I can see on paper what I have in my head.

If you're really interested I'll e-mail or IM it to you when I finish. It's not a long drawn out theory, it's just that when I've told others I've had to explain how I have come to certain conclusions. The theory is simple but it's the explaining which takes the time...

A couple of days should do it...

 

[PacificBlue]

Alright that sounds fair and I'll be waiting to hear what you have to say on the subject.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: I know, I know, I gotta get a new song...

The point is, pp, honey...how many times and in how many ways must He manifest himself before you make the decision to believe? Besides, forcing faith into someone just ain't cool.

Nice song. I've heard it before somewhere!

Okay Ranajja let's cut to the chase...

Second or third hand manifestations do nothing for me. I would become a true 100% beliver (as I think most people would) if I saw God, standing before me, in his etheral form. Not a human with god like thoughts, not a mysterious flesh and blood stranger, not a ghostly figure walking through walls and not a "miracle cure".

I would have thought that would have been quite a simple thing to achieve...and he'd probably get a 100% sign up.

 

[DriveSouth]

OK

He did all that before and the sign-up rate was not 100%. Jesus Christ Himself came and lived and walked among us here on earth. Doing miracles, healing people, feeding people, raising people from the dead even.

And the result ppman? He was killed for what hwe did and said.

So, why should anyone believe that all we need is a first hand look at him? I't been done.

And - the whole point of faith is believing in things unseen - look it up!

 

[ranajja]

Re: Re: I know, I know, I gotta get a new song...

Second or third hand manifestations do nothing for me. I would become a true 100% beliver (as I think most people would) if I saw God, standing before me, in his etheral form. Not a human with god like thoughts, not a mysterious flesh and blood stranger, not a ghostly figure walking through walls and not a "miracle cure".

I would have thought that would have been quite a simple thing to achieve...and he'd probably get a 100% sign up.

Just like it took the coming of winter to convice the grasshopper of what the ant knew all along?


"If you'd come today, you could have reached a whole nation.
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication..."

So - which one do you support? do they stand a chance? who's Utah State? are they a danger? is it a competition? do you win a cup? do you have faith?...

Ohhhh, yeahhh...

Louisiana State University - LSU - Tigers!!!!!

LSU beat Too Lame, er, I mean Tulane University this past Saturday 48-17.

I bleeed purple and gold....and football at LSU's Death Valley Stadium is something to behold.

Utah State University's football team is the next victim for the LSU Tigers.

I have all faith in the world that Utah State is Tiger Bait!

 

[p_p_man]

Re: OK

He did all that before and the sign-up rate was not 100%. Jesus Christ Himself came and lived and walked among us here on earth. Doing miracles, healing people, feeding people, raising people from the dead even.

And the result ppman? He was killed for what hwe did and said.

So, why should anyone believe that all we need is a first hand look at him? I't been done.

And - the whole point of faith is believing in things unseen - look it up!

It's God I was talking about not Jesus, whose spiritual credentials, incidentally, I do have doubts about. No, if God turned up I don't think you'd end up with many people not wanting to sign up.

And quite frankly telling me that the point of having faith is not to see the thing I'm meant to have faith in just about sums up the twisted logic I've come to expect from the church - any church!

 

[ranajja]

Re: Re: OK

And quite frankly telling me that the point of having faith is not to see the thing I'm meant to have faith in just about sums up the twisted logic I've come to expect from the church - any church!

"having faith is not to see the thing I'm meant to have faith in"

*furrowing brows in confusion*

ok, I understand...I think...


faith is...never having to say you're sorry--whoops! wrong emotion...


faith is...well, I think faith is not having to have something proved over and over and over to you.

I mean, before you walk out of the door to your house, do you have to look at the ground to make sure it's still there?

If God wanted, he could make you believe--but is that what you want? Divine intervention to erase your doubts from your hard drive and reprogram you, like a zombie or robot or something? That's not fun, or cool.

Twisted logic from the church? Yeah, I've run into that myself from time to time. But that's not God's fault--we humans tend to get caught up in our own perceptions and emotions, and it's we humans that get the real message all screwed up, even if we do have the best intentions.


BTW, ppman--when do you sleep?

 

[nasty]

Put it this way

If someone can get me out of this wheelchair, I'll believe in God.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Re: OK

Jesus Christ Himself came and lived and walked among us here on earth. Doing miracles, healing people, feeding people, raising people from the dead even.And the result ppman? He was killed for what hwe did and said.So, why should anyone believe that all we need is a first hand look at him? I't been done.

No it hasn't. You're assuming the above about resurrection actually happened. I don't believe it did. You're assuming the fishes and loaves and healing of lepers actually happened. I don't believe it did. You can't assume the "first hand look" scenario has happened when the viability of that first hand look is in question.

And even if a figure DID appear before me with a heavenly host I would first go to a neruosurgeon, a psychiatrist and David Copperfield before I lept to the atonishingly unlikely conclusion that God had come unto me.

I have convinced too many people too easily that I can perform actual miracles (from reading their minds to escaping from shackles) to buy that anything the Bible says a man named Jesus did was either accurately recorded or at all meets the burden of "miracle".

 

[Starfish]

I don't believe in any one set religion. I have family that does though, and they FULLY believe in the dogmatic crap and all.

I believe in God, and I have no doubts that God exists. But what God is, clearly isn't what religious organizations percieve it to be.
I just know that God isn't some dude sitting on a throne, in some gold paved palace in the sky.

 

[p_p_man]

Copied from Ranajja's Post:

"If God wanted, he could make you believe--but is that what you want?"

It would help...

"BTW, ppman--when do you sleep?"

When I get tired...

Copied from nasty's post:

"If someone can get me out of this wheelchair, I'll believe in God."

If someone could get you out of that chair you would believe in someone...

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I suppose if the church reckons I'm a heretic I'd better stand up but what would it do if I called the Chuch heretical (?) based on my own beliefs. Or is it only those with the power of a congregation can go around accusing others of something they may not necessarily be?

A heretic is less a person who doesn't believe, than one who questions current dogma or who believes a variation of that dogma.

In many ways I am a heretic - for example, while I am a Christian, I do not believe in strict Creation theory as espoused by many; I do believe that the evidence for evolution indicates that it is a valid scientific theory, and I do believe that the Bible can easily be interpreted to support evolution.

Yes, I am religious, but I am not dogmatic.

STG

 

[gleam]

You can't see the wind, yet you know its there. Some things are just taken on faith. Just because you don't understand it or don't agree with it...doesn't make it wrong, doesn't mean it doesn't really exist. I think He has manifested himself. I believe in Heaven and Hell. I try my best not to shove my beliefs down others throats, if you ask I will share. I don't try to get people to see it my way and I'm open to hearing what others believe.

You really could make the same arguement for people with strong political views...I don't believe what you do..so why do you keep trying to get me to see it your way?

But the thing is, we can *feel* the wind. That's how we know it's there. A spiritual world, on the other hand...

The words "divine" and "spiritual" are bandied around a fair amount on this board. My dictionanry seems to sum up the word divine as something along the lines of "pertaining to God". That doesn't really help me very much.

So what exactly is the spiritual world? An unseen world, unphysical world? A world that can not be detected, even in principle, through any means known to man and beast? I'm really, honestly, curious here...what exactly is it that people belive in when they say they believe in heaven and a soul?

When people say they belive in miracles, what exactly do they have in mind? Water into wine? Blood from a statue? Something that is inexplicable now, but, in principle, DOES have a scientific explanation? Again, I'm very curious to know.

 

[nasty]

Originally posted by p_p_man [/

Copied from nasty's post:

"If someone can get me out of this wheelchair, I'll believe in God."

That's say, since I was born in this chair, it would take the hand of God to get me out of it. I think Angels and miricles can come in different forms. Get it, now? I HOPE so.

 

[p_p_man]

That's say, since I was born in this chair, it would take the hand of God to get me out of it. I think Angels and miricles can come in different forms.

Although that would open a whole new debate at least it would make for some common ground to start off on...

Maybe another time.