Apology to Those of a Nervous Disposition... Not Nice Thread

neonlyte

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DON'T READ THIS IF YOU ARE PREGNANT, A RECENT MOTHER OR EASILY DISTRESSED. DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO CONCEIVE OR UNDERGOING FERTILIZATION PROCEEDURES.



















A German woman, mother of three adult children and one younger child has gone on trial this week accused of killing her last nine children at birth over a period of twelve years. I'm not prepared to go into the means she used to dispose of the children, it is irrelevent to the act.

The woman, during this period, was in business, regularly travel, from what I understand, in Germany and overseas, indeed one of the children was born, and died, outside Germany.

Her husband, who has left her following her arrest says 'I didn't know she was pregnant'. None of her work colleagues seemed to know she was pregnant. She never saw a doctor during any of these pregnancies. She says she killed the babies because her husband didn't want more children.

She cannot be charged with murder as there is no way of telling if the infants were born alive or dead, she has been charged with concealing births and failing to declare deaths and faces a maximum of fifteen years in prison.

I wrote a note somewhere on a thread recently about truth being stranger than fiction. Not only do I find this horror story unbelievable, on the part of the wife, the husband and her colleagues, I also cannot imagine an author inventing such a plot.

There is no point in trying to understand this turn of affairs - it is bizarre, disgusting and morally reprehensible beyond belief - I personally feel all of them she be charged with something, including the airline that flew a nine month pregnant woman. I've heard of isolated cases where a single pregnancy has gone unnoticed - but nine in twelve years?

My sincere apology if this post has upset anyone - it was not the intention.
 
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About pregnancies going unnoticed... A friend of my mother have five kids, and nobody but her, her husband and their doctor knew about the coming attractions until they saw the new toddlers being carried around. She was (and is), a lady or generous proportions, and friends and colleauges just saw a big woman losing and gaining some weight. So I don't find it all that impossible.
 
Oy... this is disgusting.

However, if the woman was a *knowing she's going to get smacked for this* largeer woman, it's entirely possible that no one knew she was pregnant. It's rude to ask an overweight woman "Oh, are you pregnant? When are you due?" and then discover that she isn't at all pregnant, just obese. :(
 
Who the hell knows why people do this fucked up shit. I mean, it's the 21st century and it's not like she lived in a country where sterilization and birth control aren't widely available. Likely it was some real psychosis or serial behavior.

There's a woman from the local area who killed two of her newborn daughters shortly after birth. Both times she claimed that they had been abducted. The first case remained unsolved, so no one allegedly knew she was the murderer. In between the two murders, she gave birth to a son who was never harmed. Supposedly, she told people that her husband said he never wanted daughters. It makes you wonder why some women would just tell their SO to piss off in this situation and others would murder their children.
 
Please forgive me but I have to ask a really stupid question. If she didn't go to the doctor and neither her husband nor anyone else knew she was pregnant, then how did the police know to arrest her for the murder of children no one knew existed?

I know, you are probably going to smack me, but I'm just confused. I know that DNA can tell investigators alot of things, but only if they have a suspect or if they have the DNA already on file for some reason.

Assuming there is a logical explanation, what a bunch of bogus bullshit! IMO, the fact that 1. No one knew she was pregnant; 2. No one was informed of the deaths; and 3. There are fucking 9! of them says that she had motive, knew whatever happened was wrong and should undergo maximum sentencing.
 
angelicminx said:
Please forgive me but I have to ask a really stupid question. If she didn't go to the doctor and neither her husband nor anyone else knew she was pregnant, then how did the police know to arrest her for the murder of children no one knew existed?

I know, you are probably going to smack me, but I'm just confused. I know that DNA can tell investigators alot of things, but only if they have a suspect or if they have the DNA already on file for some reason.

Assuming there is a logical explanation, what a bunch of bogus bullshit! IMO, the fact that 1. No one knew she was pregnant; 2. No one was informed of the deaths; and 3. There are fucking 9! of them says that she had motive, knew whatever happened was wrong and should undergo maximum sentencing.

As far as I can understand from the news report, the bodies, bar one, were all hidden in her home. I'm still reeling from reading this and almost wish I hadn't.
 
neonlyte said:
As far as I can understand from the news report, the bodies, bar one, were all hidden in her home. I'm still reeling from reading this and almost wish I hadn't.

Thanks. Hugs, hon. I'm sorry you read it, too, for your sake. :kiss:
 
neonlyte said:
As far as I can understand from the news report, the bodies, bar one, were all hidden in her home.

I repeat: Bitch! :mad:

Correction: Sick Bitch! :mad:
 
Despite the warning, opened the thread – curiosity is a terrible thing - and now sincerely regret doing so. :(
 
Curiosity is an impulse I can rarely resist. Whether it's news or stories that I suspect that I won't like, but I have to find out. It's like a train wreck. I would likely have to look at that too. I am one of those SOBs who just MUST find out for myself. :rolleyes: :eek: However that can be a good thing, since I am more likely to discover empirical truth, catch criminals in the act, or avoid being scammed. :D
 
So easy to quote the old adage, "Truth is stranger than fiction."

Writers sometimes try to capture the sickness that lurks within souls, but never can take it as far as reality. Or reality comes back and one-ups the writer.

Nine. Something truly sick there. One more group you should include in your warning list. Those that cannot have children but wish they could. Nine opportunities to make someone's life worth living through the beauty of a child.
 
The_Fool said:
So easy to quote the old adage, "Truth is stranger than fiction."

Writers sometimes try to capture the sickness that lurks within souls, but never can take it as far as reality. Or reality comes back and one-ups the writer.

Nine. Something truly sick there. One more group you should include in your warning list. Those that cannot have children but wish they could. Nine opportunities to make someone's life worth living through the beauty of a child.

Thanks for the heads up - amended.
 
Now I am interested. I'm wondering what kind of psychosis this woman had. If I understand this, she got preggers, then waited nine months before killing the baby (assuming it was born alive) however she killed it, and she did this nine times.

A very sick bitch indeed.

I wonder if it has anything to do with some very strange postpartum or if she's a very weird sort of serial killer...essentially, a woman compelled to kill infants as some are killers are compelled to murder young women? Or, if for some reason or other the babies were all born dead and she's just sick in another way--i.e., not admitting to the births and not admitting to burying them in the basement.

Certainly, there's something sick going on in that she refused understand that the births could be prevented or ended eariler. That in itself suggests a serious problem. Why keep getting pregnant and then destroying the evidence? Or did she deny the pregnancy each time it happened (some women do that), until faced with the evidence?

I'd like to know what went on in that mind and why.
 
Maybe Im just a dumb flibberty gibbet but if nobody knew she was pregnant how does anyone know she had the babies at all and how did she get arresed and stuff?

Debbie :confused:
 
Rideme Cowgirl said:
Maybe Im just a dumb flibberty gibbet but if nobody knew she was pregnant how does anyone know she had the babies at all and how did she get arresed and stuff?

Debbie :confused:

The some remains were found in a flower pot at her mothers house - reading between the lines, it may be that her mother knew since the woman was arrested the next day.
 
3113 said:
Now I am interested. I'm wondering what kind of psychosis this woman had. If I understand this, she got preggers, then waited nine months before killing the baby (assuming it was born alive) however she killed it, and she did this nine times.

A very sick bitch indeed.

I wonder if it has anything to do with some very strange postpartum or if she's a very weird sort of serial killer...essentially, a woman compelled to kill infants as some are killers are compelled to murder young women? Or, if for some reason or other the babies were all born dead and she's just sick in another way--i.e., not admitting to the births and not admitting to burying them in the basement.

Certainly, there's something sick going on in that she refused understand that the births could be prevented or ended eariler. That in itself suggests a serious problem. Why keep getting pregnant and then destroying the evidence? Or did she deny the pregnancy each time it happened (some women do that), until faced with the evidence?

I'd like to know what went on in that mind and why.

Here is a little more information from The Guardian Europe & German Newspaper (in English) - last child was born in 1998, thats 8 years ago - she is 40 now, so that makes her thirty two then, she has 4 living children, three of whom are reported as 'grown up' - it hardly bears thinking about. Her first pregnancy must have been sixteen or younger.
 
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neonlyte said:
Here is a little more information from The Guardian Europe & German Newspaper (in English) - last child was born in 1998, thats 8 years ago - she is 40 now, so that makes her thirty two then, she has 4 living children, three of whom are reported as 'grown up' - it hardly bears thinking about. Her first pregnancy must have been sixteen or younger.

Truly strange.

The article does give some information but it raises more questions than it answers.

Cat
 
This whole thing reminds me of what O-Lan did to her baby daughters in The Good Earth. I hated her, too.
 
The ancient Greeks exposed unwanted children, as in the case of Oedipus. It's still an accepted practice in some parts of rural India too.

There was a case not long ago that made national news about a woman who drowned her two children because her boyfriend didn't want to deal with them. So much for motherly love, and so much for the idea that women choose lovers who they feel will make good fathers.

Doctors in the UK were astonished not long ago when they put a camera in a neonatal ward for children of parents who'd already lost children to SIDS and observed more than one mother trying to suffocate her child when she thought no one was looking. More than one mother.

There's a medical condition currently being investigated (whose name I forget) in which mothers hurt and starve their children so that they can take them to specialists and present themselves as caring and suffering mothers. It's thought that they're using their children's suffering to get attention and sympathy for themselves.

There was a case here that caught my attention a few years ago. A mother in a well-ro-do suburb with a lawyer husband murdered her three children one nght, apprently without rhyme or reason. No one could understand why.

I followed this for a while, and what apparently happened was this: there are people who are so deeply depressed that their life is nothing but suffering, pain, and horror, devoid of any hope or joy. This woman was such a one and had been undergoing treatment, but it wasn't successful at all. She killed her kids because she couldn't stand to see them doomed to the same life of pain and despair she knew. In essence, she killed them out of love.

I don't know what was at work in this woman's mind, but personally, when I think of the hormonal and physical changes a woman goes through during pregnancy, it's pretty amazing to me that the whole process works at all.

By the way-- They just found out that men typically gain weight when their mates are pregnant too. It's not as bad as in penguins and some monkeys, where the male's weight gain can exceed the female's, but it is a real effect. In penguins and this certain species of monkey (whose name I again forget), it has to do with the fact that the male will do much of the child rearing and needs the fat reserves. In humans, I guess the idea was the same at one time, and it's a throwback from those days.
 
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dr_mabeuse said:
There's a medical condition currently being investigated (whose name I forget) in which mothers hurt and starve their children so that they can take them to specialists and present themselves as caring and suffering mothers. It's thought that they're using their children's suffering to get attention and sympathy for themselves.

It's called Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
There's a medical condition currently being investigated (whose name I forget) in which mothers hurt and starve their children so that they can take them to specialists and present themselves as caring and suffering mothers. It's thought that they're using their children's suffering to get attention and sympathy for themselves.

Munchausen by Proxy I believe.
it is the serial nature of this case I find so disturbing. The German report indicates she may have been trying to attract her husbands attention through the pregancies - one wonders why she didn't simply tell him.

By the way, this was not a 'large' woman. One report describes her as 'thin as a lampost with an occassional bump'. A neigbour assumed she worked as a 'surrogate mother' and didn't bother to question the lack of children.
 
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