Any of youse guys worried?

Pure

Fiel a Verdad
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Posts
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Quote of the day

Amicus: The Right resists all attempts by government to regulate and control.

I, pure, respond: Is it not then, accurate to say that anyone UNconcerned with the below story, is not a genuine conservative?

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from the Washington Post, liberal den of iniquity, slayer of the saintly Dick


Court Rules U.S. Can Indefinitely Detain Citizens in Wartime

Ruling Comes in the Case of 'Enemy Combatant' Jose Padilla
By Jerry Markon

Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 9, 2005; 5:45 PM

A federal appeals court ruled today that the president can indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil in the absence of criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.

The decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit came in the case of Jose Padilla, a former Chicago gang member who was arrested in Chicago in 2002 and designated an "enemy combatant" by President Bush. The government contends that Padilla trained at al Qaeda camps and was planning to blow up apartment buildings in the United States.

Padilla, a U.S. citizen, has been held without trial in a U.S. naval brig for more than three years, and his case triggered a legal battle with vast implications for civil liberties and the fight against terrorism.

Attorneys for Padilla and a host of civil liberties organizations blasted the detention as illegal and said it could lead to the military being allowed to hold anyone, from protesters to people who check out what the government considers the wrong books from the library.

Federal prosecutors asserted that Bush not only had the authority to order Padilla's detention but that such power is essential to preventing attacks. In its ruling today, the 4th Circuit overturned a lower court and came down squarely on the government's side.

A congressional resolution after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks "provided the President all powers necessary and appropriate to protect American citizens from terrorist attacks by those who attacked the United States on Sept. 11," the decision said. "Those powers include the power to detain identified and committed enemies such as Padilla, who associated with al Qaeda and the Taliban regime, who took up arms against this Nation in its war against these enemies, and who entered the United States for the avowed purpose of further prosecuting that war by attacking American citizens."

The ruling by a three-judge panel limits the president's power to detain Padilla to the duration of hostilities against al Qaeda, but the Bush administration has said that war could go on indefinitely.

The decision was written by Judge J. Michael Luttig, who is one of a number of people under consideration by President Bush for nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court.
 
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Pure, it's amicus. God only knows what his little confused mind will come up with next.
 
Colleen and Wildcard are conservatives. I suspect they would find this detention as terrifying as I do.

Amicus is a revolutionary. He and his ilk intend to tear down everything we hold dear and replace it with something the Founding Fathers would loath. Something closely resembling the Soviet Union under Stalin.
 
rgraham666 said:
Colleen and Wildcard are conservatives. I suspect they would find this detention as terrifying as I do.

I do find it horrifying. We're talking about an American citizen. That should come with a whole bevy of inalienable rights to include due process. If Padilla truly is a terrorist that was planning to blow up apartments, prove it in court and throw his ass in jail for eternity. If you can't prove he's a terrorist, he must be freed.

This whole waiting in limbo with no charges filed is as wrong as it can be. It goes against everything this country is supposed to stand for. Every American accused of something has the RIGHT to have their day in court. Padillas rights are being denied.
 
The right does not resist all attempts by government to regulate and control. Just the attempts that might regulate and control profits. Otherwise, particularly where individual rights and liberties are involved (capital punishment, abortion laws, funding of medical research or lack thereof, school prayer, flag burning, marriage, etc.), the right seems more than eager to have goverment regulate, whether it be federal or state.

They like to throw around the 'small government' buzzwords, but it's a big lie.
 
good point,

lady jeanne,

similar to the one I was trying to make:

there are 'true conservatives' who believe in small, fiscally responsible government. Esp. since the time of Reagan (who greatly increased the size of the fed gov), 'conservatives' or 'right wing' persons simply pay lip service to small gov.

similarly, there are Republicans (conservatives) who love liberty and privacy: who don't want goverment snooping and Big Brother. The current Republicans in power have instituted unparalled surveillance of phone calls (Echelon), camera in public places, etc.

so, in my words, there is a big gov., authoritarian right ('fascist leaning') and there is libertarian (small "l"), liberty loving right. it's a complicated picture, since

The "Rand" right, want, as you say, 'small government' for big business and are (many of them) ok with big government for lots of other things, like the military machine.

Government supplies contracts, money. So lots of people want it small for the other guy, and 'big' for them: small for NO levees, and large for Halliburton.

What do you think? is 'individual liberty loving conservative' an oxymoron or a historical relic?
 
Pure said:
What do you think? is 'individual liberty loving conservative' an oxymoron or a historical relic?

Neither. They're out there. It's just that the goals of an 'individual liberty loving conservative' are more of an ideal rather than a practical reality these days.



We the People of the United States,
in order to form a more perfect union,
establish justice,
insure domestic tranquility,
provide for the common defense,
promote the general welfare,
and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,
do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Is this the ideal we should aspire to?
 
Pure said:
What do you think? is 'individual liberty loving conservative' an oxymoron or a historical relic?

I think more people are this than you would believe.

a) Fiscally and Foreign policy conservative
b) Civil liberties liberal

Unfortunately, at this time issues are politicized and a single stance on some of the big issues can put you irrevocably on one side or the other.

If I'm pro-gun, RABIDLY pro-free speech, against being a part of the abortion question... then what am I?

ps. I'm isolationist, pro-affirmitive action, anti-tax, anti-the-whole-fucking private charity crap these idiots keep trying to shove down my throat (listen assholes, I KNOW ME... how much money have I given to Katrina charities... NOT A FUCKING PENNY--bad me...bad me... and you fucking morons are trying to convince me to trust people like me when the shit hits the fan... come the fuck on!)

Sincerely,
ElSol
 
Even my father found it disturbing. As well he should. Basically, unles over turned, it's saying the president has the power to issue bills of attainder rather than the congress being able to pass them. Never mind that the constituion expressly forbids them.
 
Pure said:
What do you think? is 'individual liberty loving conservative' an oxymoron or a historical relic?

That's exactly what I am. I always fall on the side of individual freedom. I'm pro choice, and pro gun. I don't have a problem with flag burning. I do believe in a smaller, less intrusive government. That falls under freedom from overbearing taxes.

On just about any issues that comes up, I will always fall on the side of individual freedom. I also fall on the side of harsh punishment against those that take away anothers freedom, rights or liberties.
 
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