Any interest in Germany?

[SnoopDog]

I'd like to know if any of you guys are aware of what's politically going on in Germany right now. Have you any clue, do you give a shit?

If you do know what I'm referring to, do you care? What are your thoughts?

Or should I just shut up?


Snoopy

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Your post reads a little hostile to me, Snoop. If there's something we should know, why not inform us?

~lucky

 

[SnoopDog]

Your post reads a little hostile to me, Snoop. If there's something we should know, why not inform us?

~lucky

Oh no, this wasn't intended to come across that way. I just was asking out of curiosity. It's not THAT spectacular anyways. But our chancellor has basically called off his own government and rooted for new elections which could possibly happpen in two months time. And after that there's a good chance of Germany having the first female chancellor.

And i'd just like to know what foreigners knew and thought of this.

Snoopy

 

[Liar]

Don't know much, except that there's some CDU lady gaining ground. Which could be a good thing. There hasn't been a female top dog in Europe since Thatcher. And au contraire to ythe iron lady, this one seems quite level headed.

German politicians and politics has been intentionally low profile the last two or three decades. It gives them an edgea and profile in the status battle within the EU to be the country that doesn't draw attention to their domestic squabbles. Not even ole Kohl was a man of the headlines, except on the international scene. So what goes on within the country is generally kept there. Pretty much like with us north of you.

So no, if there is something particular right now, it has not reached me. Rather than shutting up, inform.

EDIT: ...which you did.

 

[CrazyyAngel]

I tried the same when the elections in NRW were on a couple of weeks ago ... the implications and conclusions I drew from this weren't the same people outside of germany drew . So don't be too hard on them if they don't show much interest.

What he means Lucky is ... yesterday our chancellor motioned for no-confidence in the Bundestag, paving the way for early reelections in the fall. Normally the next countrywide elections would be in the fall of 2006.

The problem with this is ... now the christian-democratic Union will most likely win this election and the first female chancellor in the history of the country will be elected (which isn't exactly a problem, but its Angela Merkel and she is in the wrong party).

A few weeks back I compared this to the reelection of Georgie-Boy. Germany will seek to move closer to the US again and will also change its politics concerning europe.

I just don't like the direction our country seems to be headin' to ... but there isn't much I can do, besides vote different.

 

[SnoopDog]

Don't know much, except that there's some CDU lady gaining ground. German politicians and politics has been intentionally low profile the last two or three decades. It gives them an edgea and profile in the status battle within the EU to be the country that doesn't draw attention to their domestic squabbles. Not even ole Kohl was a man of the headlines, except on the international scene. So what goes on within the country is generally kept there. Pretty much like with us north of you.

So no, if there is something particular right now, it has not reached me. Rather than shutting up, inform.

Well, I'll keep this short. There have been state (state=Bundesland) elections recently which the SPD (social-democrats, the governing party together with the green party) lost. By that they also lost their majority of the state governments. The chancellor then announced he'd post the 'Vertrauensfrage' which basically means the Bundestag (senate) will vote on whether they still want this chancellor and government. This vote was held Friday and the chancellor, just as he wanted, lost - which means the represantatives withdrew their support of the chancellor. He wanted this so he can have new elections because he said after losing all those state elections he lacked the support of the people. So if the Bundespräsident agrees to re-elections Germany will decide on a new government in September (or October, not sure). And the CDU has a good chance of winning these elections. And their candidate for chancellor is a woman - Angela Merkel.

It's not unusual to have the 'Vertrauensfrage' but in this circumstance it was really a political earthquake.

Hope this made sense.

Snoopy

 

[SnoopDog]

I tried the same when the elections in NRW were on a couple of weeks ago ... the implications and conclusions I drew from this weren't the same people outside of germany drew . So don't be too hard on them if they don't show much interest.

What he means Lucky is ... yesterday our chancellor motioned for no-confidence in the Bundestag, paving the way for early reelections in the fall. Normally the next countrywide elections would be in the fall of 2006.

The problem with this is ... now the christian-democratic Union will most likely win this election and the first female chancellor in the history of the country will be elected (which isn't exactly a problem, but its Angela Merkel and she is in the wrong party).

A few weeks back I compared this to the reelection of Georgie-Boy. Germany will seek to move closer to the US again and will also change its politics concerning europe.

I just don't like the direction our country seems to be headin' to ... but there isn't much I can do, besides vote different.

Lol, wrote that while you posted it. So you cleared it pretty much up. Thnx.

Snoopy

 

[Liar]

Well, I'll keep this short. There have been state (state=Bundesland) elections recently which the SPD (social-democrats, the governing party together with the green party) lost. By that they also lost their majority of the state governments. The chancellor then announced he'd post the 'Vertrauensfrage' which basically means the Bundestag (senate) will vote on whether they still want this chancellor and government. This vote was held Friday and the chancellor, just as he wanted, lost - which means the represantatives withdrew their support of the chancellor. He wanted this so he can have new elections because he said after losing all those state elections he lacked the support of the people. So if the Bundespräsident agrees to re-elections Germany will decide on a new government in September (or October, not sure). And the CDU has a good chance of winning these elections. And their candidate for chancellor is a woman - Angela Merkel.

Your chancellor could teach our prime minister one or two things.

 

[CharleyH]

I'd like to know if any of you guys are aware of what's politically going on in Germany right now. Have you any clue, do you give a shit?

If you do know what I'm referring to, do you care? What are your thoughts?

Or should I just shut up?


Snoopy

There's a big concert? It is ok there. Better elsewhere, though.

 

[SnoopDog]

There's a big concert? It is ok there. Better elsewhere, though.

Well, of course the Siegessäule-line-up in Berlin can't compete wiht London or Philly.

But at least we're part of it. And there have been at least some good ones there. Herbert Grönemeyer is a great german artist. Oh and Green Day played in Berlin as far as I know.

Snoopy

 

[oggbashan]

The only thing that seemed unusual was that the Chancellor was persuading people to vote AGAINST him in a confidence vote. It seemed an odd way to precipitate an election.

In the UK that wouldn't be necessary. If the Prime Minister wants an early election then he/she can call one at any time.

We do have some oddities of our own. A Member of Parliament cannot resign so if they want to give up they have to go through the farce of applying for the post of the Lordship of the Chiltern Hundreds which is a paid office under the Crown. As a Member of Parliament CANNOT be paid by the Queen then he loses his status as a Member. The Chiltern Hundreds pays about one pound a year.

The quality press here has been quite clear for some time that the German Government was a lame duck after the local elections and that it was not a question of if but when the Chancellor would call an election. The 'No' vote on the European Constitution by France just made the situation more difficult for the German Government. Unfortunately that gives our Prime Minister, Tony Blair, more power in Europe just as he takes over the Presidency.

There needs to be a debate about what happens to the European idea for the future. A weak Germany and a divided France at this time is not good. Whether the new German government can work within the expanded EU to create a Europe that suits everyone is an awkward question. It seems that no single vision of the Europe of the future is acceptable to all states. What is certain is that the EU is in a mess. I don't think Tony Blair could sort it out even if he had the goodwill of France and Germany and he hasn't.

A newly elected German government will face enough internal problems with unemployment, the redevelopment of the former East Germany, the ageing population, mass immigration from the enlarged Europe, without trying to lead the way to a new Europe that the PEOPLE want, not what the Brussels bureaucrats and the EU's poltical elites want.

Germany's election is important but its greatest impact must be inside Germany.

Og

 

[Guest]

US Media is not great about carrying International News (what's this rumor I hear about a Europoean Union?) but CNN is carrying a story on their front page about the no confidence vote.

 

[ishtat]

#

We get an unusually high proportion of foreign news because about 1 in 3 Australians or their parents were born somewhere else. About the only Western European country that does not have a significant minority group here is France. We even have about 250,000 (former) Americans.

I read a lengthy article on Angela Merkel recently the basic thrust of which was to say that she was no Thatcher and would not do anything to upset the existing social and welfare provisions in Germany. She was however tipped to beat Schroeder who was depicted as an incompetent 'show pony'. It was suggested that Merkel lacked the courage to take the tough economic decisions(a la Thatcher). Whilst it is currently fashionable to denigrate Thatcher there is no doubt that she can take the lions share of the credit for pulling the UK out of the economic disaster of the late 1970's.

It's odd that Thatcher has become such a despised figure in Europe and yet she is concurrently still the standard yardstick of leadership.

The view from here is that Germany will not be able to regain even part of its previous economic achievement unless it is able to take on the irresponsible financial policies pursued by France and Italy whilst at the same time dealing with its own severe unemployment problems.

I read another very provocative article by a Dutch economist/journalist working here who suggested that the basic European problem was that Italy and France in particular had parasitised the German/Benelux economies for so long that they could not face the fact that they were living beyond their means and would have to sort themselves out. The French solution he suggested would be a preference to tranfer their economic dependence (particularly through the CAP) to the UK. A Merkel government it was suggested would put German domestic issues at a higher priority than any wider European interest

He also suggeste that the Brits would not say "Non" to France and would not support the CAP like Germany had in the past. Squabbling over this issue alone would dominate the politics of Europe for the next 10 years.

His other conclusion was that Dutch and German voters were very angry that their polititians had sacrificed their strong currencies to the Euro.

 

[SeaCat]

I'd like to know if any of you guys are aware of what's politically going on in Germany right now. Have you any clue, do you give a shit?

If you do know what I'm referring to, do you care? What are your thoughts?

Or should I just shut up?


Snoopy

Snoop,

I've been following this and hearing about it from family for a while now. (Since sometime around 1984 as a matter of fact.) About the only thing I can say is hold on and see what happens. If things go as they seem and the not so young lady is elected she will have a hard job ahead of her. (Being naive as to international politics as I am,) I can only hope for Germany's sake that she does in fact focus on internal problems more than she does on external. get her house in order before she tries to get other peoples houses in order.

Cat

 

[fifty5]

It's odd that Thatcher has become such a despised figure in Europe and yet she is concurrently still the standard yardstick of leadership.

Whose standard? She led (and Tony is following) in attempting to "reduce government" while both she and he are achieving the reverse. Accepted opinion is that Maggie would be odds on favourite for "leader who failed most badly in the 20th C".

He also suggeste that the Brits would not say "Non" to France and would not support the CAP like Germany had in the past. Squabbling over this issue alone would dominate the politics of Europe for the next 10 years.

And thus open the door to 'fair trade' for Africa and the rest of the third world?

His other conclusion was that Dutch and German voters were very angry that their polititians had sacrificed their strong currencies to the Euro.

Having spoken to a dutch lady who comes here, my impression is that it ain't the strength of her currency that bugs her, but the exchange rate that applied in practice: devaluing her savings and earnings. Prices in euros in Holland (she said) shot up overnight compared to what they were in guilders (if I have the old Dutch currency right).

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Thanks for the clarification. It does sound interesting, and I hope that whatever happens doesn't change things too much for you, but if it does, I hope it's a positive change. Will you keep us posted? Our media works in such ways that unless I hunt for information, I'll probably never hear a word about it.



~lucky

 

[SnoopDog]

Thanks for the clarification. It does sound interesting, and I hope that whatever happens doesn't change things too much for you, but if it does, I hope it's a positive change. Will you keep us posted? Our media works in such ways that unless I hunt for information, I'll probably never hear a word about it.



~lucky

Yeah, in two and a half weeks time the Bundespräsident will make his decision whether to allow new elections or not. It is very likely that he does and then six weeks later Germany will decide again. It'll be interesting to see the campaigns and strategies that lead up to that vote. Oh by the way, we even get a new party, a group that parted from the SPD and PDS and now chose to create a new alternative.

Snoopy

 

[Xelebes]

And after that there's a good chance of Germany having the first female chancellor.

I hope it's not Kim Campbell.

Anyways, I try and stick out of politics for some reason. I like Germany, I will not make a bone of that.

 

[Guest]

Germany can fuck herself in the ass too.

 

[shereads]

I admit that I'm too terrified of what's happening here at home to pay much attention to what's happening in countries mine isn't occupying.

I am interested, though. I lived in Germany for a few years when I was a child. (Back then, I was better known as Shelooksatthepictures.) You have a beautiful park in Wiesbaden and the best chocolate ice cream anywhere, and castles, and medieval towns with half-timbered buildings older than the recorded history of my continent. I'm definitely interested.

On the downside, there's a really creepy elevator in an apartment building in Meinz, and the building manager is crabby. If you and your sister get stuck in the elevator he'll yell at you later. Don't go there.

Where do you live, Snoop?

 

[shereads]

Oh no, this wasn't intended to come across that way. I just was asking out of curiosity. It's not THAT spectacular anyways. But our chancellor has basically called off his own government and rooted for new elections which could possibly happpen in two months time. And after that there's a good chance of Germany having the first female chancellor.

And i'd just like to know what foreigners knew and thought of this.

Snoopy

I know this is silly, but the idea that the frequency of elections can be influenced by someone in power makes me dizzy.

 

[SnoopDog]

I admit that I'm too terrified of what's happening here at home to pay much attention to what's happening in countries mine isn't occupying.

I am interested, though. I lived in Germany for a few years when I was a child. (Back then, I was better known as Shelooksatthepictures.) You have a beautiful park in Wiesbaden and the best chocolate ice cream anywhere, and castles, and medieval towns with half-timbered buildings older than the recorded history of my continent. I'm definitely interested.

On the downside, there's a really creepy elevator in an apartment building in Meinz, and the building manager is crabby. If you and your sister get stuck in the elevator he'll yell at you later. Don't go there.

Where do you live, Snoop?

That's funny because I actually live in Mainz.

I know this is silly, but the idea that the frequency of elections can be influenced by someone in power makes me dizzy.

Oh, well, it can't be decided by one person alone. The idea behind the Vertrauensfrage (=vote of confidence) is that whenever the government is questioned for its actions and the question is raised whether this government should continue or not, it is actually a pretty good thing. But this time it's weird in a way because the chancellor himself initiated it.

It's like impeachment without a crime you know. Just to make sure that the people are still behind this government.

Snoopy

 

[sweetnpetite]

US Media is not great about carrying International News (what's this rumor I hear about a Europoean Union?) but CNN is carrying a story on their front page about the no confidence vote.

This is probably a completely ignorant statement (and I've actually been minimally following this story) but the chancellor asking for a vote of no confidence-- this is reminding me of STAR WARS 1 or 2. (can't remember)

I've found all my information about the election so far in the Lansing State Journal in the World section. I don't think that it's not so much not covered as few people actually read that far into the paper.

Now it seems as if it's all more confused. Snoopy, can you shed any light on what is going on?

 

[TheEarl]

It's like impeachment without a crime you know. Just to make sure that the people are still behind this government.

Snoopy

Would that other countries followed this pattern.

I'm glad you started this thread. The German election was big in the English newspapers, but I haven't seen or heard anything after the split decision was announced. Very intrigued to know what's going to happen though.

What's to stop a re-election from returning exactly the same stalemate again?

The Earl

 

[lil_elvis]

Agreeing to disagree isn't progress...it's paralysis.

It may prove intractible for quite some time.