Another "sniper"???

[mbb308]

Okay, what are the chances that there is another sharpshooter killer out there, and in West by God Virginia of all places. (I refuse to use the word "sniper" to describe someone who shoots people from a range in excess of 30 yards.)

Of course, we know now for absolute fact that this is a Caucasian male working alone. He most likely has had military service, and he may be, or have been, a member of a militia group or a hate group.

How many guesses as to what shade of black pickup he's driving? Hint: it's really a maroon Camry.

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/08/17/ap_article_sniper.htm

Small town wary after three similar sniper-style shootings in a week
Associated Press

CEDAR GROVE, West Virginia (AP) -- Residents cautiously went about their weekend errands in this small Appalachian community Saturday, a day after police confirmed that three shooting deaths within days at area convenience stores could be the work of a single sniper.
"How could it happen here?" asked resident Danny Canterbury as he shopped for groceries in the tiny town of 864, about 20 miles east of Charleston.

He had kept his ear close to his police scanner for hours Thursday after hearing that a man was shot and killed outside a convenience store across town, the third convenience store killing in the Charleston area since Sunday.

Police have acknowledged that the bullets in all three attacks were fired from the same caliber and class of weapon, all from more than 30 yards away.

While authorities stopped short of definitely linking the killings, Kanawha County Chief Deputy Sheriff Phil Morris recommended that residents do their shopping during the day, and he warned that if anyone did have to go to a gas station at night, that they not go alone. All three killings had been after dark.

"It makes you think, where's it going to end?" Canterbury said.

The only two gas stations in Cedar Grove were all but abandoned in the evening hours Friday, and the few people who headed to the only grocery store hustled back to their cars. At midday Saturday, the grocery lot was busy again.

The sniper-style shootings were an immediate reminder of the attacks that had terrorized two neighboring states over a three-week period last fall. Two men were arrested in the Washington-area sniper killings, but with the similarities between the attacks so strong, the FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives joined state and local authorities in the hunt for the West Virginia shooter.

Police said they have received more than 200 calls and tips, and after the second and third shootings, both on Thursday, they added six employees to work the telephones. Morris said local police and the sheriff had also added six road patrols in the area, focusing on gas stations.

"It's like everyone's life's in danger," said Alicia Campbell, a Cedar Grove resident.

The victims were identified as Gary Carrier Jr., 34, shot in the head Sunday night while using a pay telephone outside a gas station on Charleston's west side; Jeanie Patton, 31, shot in the back of the head Thursday night while pumping gas in Campbells Creek, about 10 miles east of Charleston; Okey Meadows, 26, shot in the neck later Thursday outside the Cedar Grove station.

Police also are investigating whether a March 20 shooting death outside a Charleston grocery store could be related. Morris said that shooting involved a different caliber of rifle than the other three attacks, but that authorities weren't ruling out a possible connection.

Saturday afternoon, police were stopping black pickup trucks with tinted windows and extended cabs after witnesses described a truck seen near the Cedar Grove store. A black pickup also was seen in the Campbells Creek area, Morris said.

Authorities were also scrutinizing video from surveillance cameras at both stores.

Despite the evident fear in town, lifelong Cedar Grove residents Ralph Roark, 73, and Jesse Frazier, 81, swore the shooter wouldn't force them to change their daily routine of relaxing on a park bench and watching the world go by.

"It's not like it was when we were kids, and you could leave your door unlocked, come back and everything is still there," Frazier said. "It'll probably get worse before it gets better."

"I'm just going through life like always," Roark said. "It's just my way of coping."

 

[rosco rathbone]

My ex-parder from last summer was a Va-on WVA border USMC sniper (now Reserve) who drove a big-ass, black extended cab F-350 doolie. He went bonkers when he found out that his ol lady was fucking his old best friend while he was up in NYC making money for the babies and grandbabies (33 yrs old, I love the Appalachian peoples). Always talking about how he was going to "go off" one day.

Don't do it Eddie! You are supposed to be one of the good guys!

I have lost track of him but I sure hope it isn't him.

 

[JerseyBoy]

just great...I'm just about to head down to the area.

gonna hafta fill up in delaware and hope to make it back in one trip

 

[Spinaroonie]

The victims were identified as Gary Carrier Jr., 34, shot in the head Sunday night while using a pay telephone outside a gas station on Charleston's west side;

DO NOT turn down the bought and paid for pizza, you need your strength for that phone call.

 

[mbb308]

LOL. For real.

I sorta hope it isn't Eddie, too. He's too trained to fuck with, and he could be one helluva lot further away than any 30 yards.

Mom wants to go to Parkersburg in October, and I don't want to have to pack any countersniper gear.

 

[Ishmael]

LOL. For real.

I sorta hope it isn't Eddie, too. He's too trained to fuck with, and he could be one helluva lot further away than any 30 yards.

Mom wants to go to Parkersburg in October, and I don't want to have to pack any countersniper gear.

Actually counter-sniper specialists are exactly what's called for in this instance. The police dept's aren't equiped to deal with these situations. I wonder if the state even has anyone trained in this area?

Just some guesses here but the head shots would indicate ranges of no more than 300m. Probably no more than 200m. The third victim that was shot in the neck would seem to indicate that the range was greater than the rifles zero. Depending on caliber and range it would indicate a 300m shot taken with a rifle with a 200m zero. (for 7mm to .30 cal. class weapons)

It would appear he has good hold and trigger discipline. That means he's shooting from a rest or prone position.

This all assumes he's the real deal. Formal training or an amatuer with a lot of practice time.

Regardless, at least two networks are pasting up pics of AK 47's when they run the sniper story. <shrug>

Ishmael

 

[rosco rathbone]

What the fuck are you going to do with a hillbilly Penetecostal trained killer who shows show pictures of his grandchildren with a lump in his throat one minute and, looking down at black kids playing in a playground the next, says "I could shoot you one a them orangatangs from a thousand meters if I had my best rifle here raht naow, Hambone".

It was partly a shock act; partly bitter racism and hatred. He was a cocky redneck fuck, disliked by everyone, who got on my last nerve, but he would also do weird shit for me, like spending his whole lunch hour adjusting the impossible-to-figure-out expansion band on my watch; or taking my Buck knife home to sharpen it properly. I sort of miss him and I hope he didn't get killed in Iraq; but I'm glad I don't have to listen to him going "Get your goofy ass up there and commence to connectin iron, Dicknose" or "Are you shore you had your dumbass pills this mornin Hambone?"

 

[mbb308]

Actually counter-sniper specialists are exactly what's called for in this instance. The police dept's aren't equiped to deal with these situations. I wonder if the state even has anyone trained in this area?

Just some guesses here but the head shots would indicate ranges of no more than 300m. Probably no more than 200m. The third victim that was shot in the neck would seem to indicate that the range was greater than the rifles zero. Depending on caliber and range it would indicate a 300m shot taken with a rifle with a 200m zero. (for 7mm to .30 cal. class weapons)

It would appear he has good hold and trigger discipline. That means he's shooting from a rest or prone position.

This all assumes he's the real deal. Formal training or an amatuer with a lot of practice time.

Regardless, at least two networks are pasting up pics of AK 47's when they run the sniper story. <shrug>

Ishmael

I don't know. If it's Eddie, and he was trained by Carlos Hathcock Jr. or one of his co-workers, I'd double those distances. Those boys are extremely hard holders.

There was something I saw which led me to believe that this was a .223 shooter. I don't recall what it was or where I sdaw it, but the notion took root, for whatever reason. It could be a flashback for all I know.

Head shots at 100 yards with open sights are a piece of cake, but one just doesn't pick up a rifle and start making them, either.

The AK gets all the mileage. Ergonomically, Mikhail Kalashnikov was sadistic in his design.

 

[mbb308]

What the fuck are you going to do with a hillbilly Penetecostal trained killer who shows show pictures of his grandchildren with a lump in his throat one minute and, looking down at black kids playing in a playground the next, says "I could shoot you one a them orangatangs from a thousand meters if I had my best rifle here raht naow, Hambone".

It was partly a shock act; partly bitter racism and hatred. He was a cocky redneck fuck, disliked by everyone, who got on my last nerve, but he would also do weird shit for me, like spending his whole lunch hour adjusting the impossible-to-figure-out expansion band on my watch; or taking my Buck knife home to sharpen it properly. I sort of miss him and I hope he didn't get killed in Iraq; but I'm glad I don't have to listen to him going "Get your goofy ass up there and commence to connectin iron, Dicknose" or "Are you shore you had your dumbass pills this mornin Hambone?"

I know just the type of griznoid you describe. Hell, if you gave me a general physical description, I've probably seen one just like him, too. They're the kind whom you can look in the eye as they fuck off and tell them, "don't do nothing," at which they'll grin and say, "ok." One minute, you can want them to die the most hideous of deaths, and the next they'll do something selfless just for you and make you feel all guilty and shit.

I think it's better to have that type love you than to have them hate you. They're good to know when the bar fights start, too.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I don't know. If it's Eddie, and he was trained by Carlos Hathcock Jr. or one of his co-workers, I'd double those distances. Those boys are extremely hard holders.

There was something I saw which led me to believe that this was a .223 shooter. I don't recall what it was or where I sdaw it, but the notion took root, for whatever reason. It could be a flashback for all I know.

Head shots at 100 yards with open sights are a piece of cake, but one just doesn't pick up a rifle and start making them, either.

The AK gets all the mileage. Ergonomically, Mikhail Kalashnikov was sadistic in his design.

I asked him about C.H.'s book.

"Read the book. Knoaw the mayun. Shook his hayund."

Ed told me about all the psychological shit they put the Marine snipers through and you'd think it would be enough to weed out all nut jobs. (He was actually an MP selected for some weird urban-combat/SWAT type MP unit that did a lot of bodyguarding for top VIPS such as Clinton and was given the same sharpshooting training as the military snipers but then shunted into a more SWAT type thing). I don't really think it was him but I wonder, every time someone starts killing folks in VA.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I know just the type of griznoid you describe. Hell, if you gave me a general physical description, I've probably seen one just like him, too. They're the kind whom you can look in the eye as they fuck off and tell them, "don't do nothing," at which they'll grin and say, "ok." One minute, you can want them to die the most hideous of deaths, and the next they'll do something selfless just for you and make you feel all guilty and shit.

I think it's better to have that type love you than to have them hate you. They're good to know when the bar fights start, too.

Yeah , I had some weird reflexive attaction to him even though he rarely let up on ragging me. He looked just like Howdy Doody, ears and all, yet had a way of carrying himself and moving that was oddly catlike; very quick and never off-balance. We used to run down 150 feet of stairs to get to the parking lot and he was always way ahead of me, hitting every stair step with this odd twinkletoes-like stride.

 

[mbb308]

I asked him about C.H.'s book.

"Read the book. Knoaw the mayun. Shook his hayund."

Ed told me about all the psychological shit they put the Marine snipers through and you'd think it would be enough to weed out all nut jobs. (He was actually an MP selected for some weird urban-combat/SWAT type MP unit that did a lot of bodyguarding for top VIPS such as Clinton and was given the same sharpshooting training as the military snipers but then shunted into a more SWAT type thing). I don't really think it was him but I wonder, every time someone starts killing folks in VA.

I met Carlos Hathcock III in May of 2000. I think his father, the book subject, had died the previous February. He was a Gunnery Sargeant like his old man and was stationed at the scout/sniper school at Quantico. Apparently, he followed the old man's footsteps.

He was the school teacher type - average height, slender build (especially compared with some of the animals on the USMC rifle team that year), and soft-spoken. One would picture him as a killer about like picturing Heinrich Himmler as the leader of the SS.

Gunny Hathcock and I had a very nice chat about raising boys. He was/is a very pleasant man.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't know. If it's Eddie, and he was trained by Carlos Hathcock Jr. or one of his co-workers, I'd double those distances. Those boys are extremely hard holders.

There was something I saw which led me to believe that this was a .223 shooter. I don't recall what it was or where I sdaw it, but the notion took root, for whatever reason. It could be a flashback for all I know.

Head shots at 100 yards with open sights are a piece of cake, but one just doesn't pick up a rifle and start making them, either.

The AK gets all the mileage. Ergonomically, Mikhail Kalashnikov was sadistic in his design.

Carlos was no better a shot than many I've known. His art was in other area's.

But for the sake of discussion, with that training counter-sniper operations become an even higher priority.

.223? Weird. The BC sucks on all but the newer heavy bullets. (68 - 75grs) And if you want accuracy out of those bullets you need a special barrel.

I think that it's stupid of law enforcement NOT to let more info out about the bullets recovered. I would think that it would help generate leads.

One more thought. Standard load .223's off the shelf are very frangible. At any range of 100m or less there wouldn't be much of a bullet to recover.

Ishmael

 

[mbb308]

Carlos was no better a shot than many I've known. His art was in other area's.

But for the sake of discussion, with that training counter-sniper operations become an even higher priority.

.223? Weird. The BC sucks on all but the newer heavy bullets. (68 - 75grs) And if you want accuracy out of those bullets you need a special barrel.

I think that it's stupid of law enforcement NOT to let more info out about the bullets recovered. I would think that it would help generate leads.

One more thought. Standard load .223's off the shelf are very frangible. At any range of 100m or less there wouldn't be much of a bullet to recover.

Ishmael

Yeah. CH would take forever to get there and nobody had any idea where he was except him. But he didn't turn around and bone the shot, either.

Most of those big rifle matches are won by a point or two, or even by the x-count. There are a buttload of great shooters. It's just a bit different when the target has a pulse.

The target gang are all using the 1 in 8 twist barrels for the M16 variants for the National Match course of fire. They will use the 68 or 69 grain bullets (depending on manufacturor) at 200 and 300 yards, and then switch to the 77 or 80 grainers for the 600 line. These people are all loading their own cartridges, too.

Match bullets make lousy hunting bullets, but, allegedly, Hathcock was using matchgrade .30-'06 in his Model 70.

When they started the National Matches back running again after WWII, they used the AP '06 ammo, having found it to have been loaded more consistently than the M2 ball.

I cheat - I use the Black Hills matchgrade reloads for .223. Thirty cal is another matter entirely. I have recipes for both .308 and .30-'06 which I load myself.

I want more info on that round. I don't know where that .223 thought came from. The dessicated part of my brain may have caused a bit of static in the rest of it.

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah. CH would take forever to get there and nobody had any idea where he was except him. But he didn't turn around and bone the shot, either.

Most of those big rifle matches are won by a point or two, or even by the x-count. There are a buttload of great shooters. It's just a bit different when the target has a pulse.

The target gang are all using the 1 in 8 twist barrels for the M16 variants for the National Match course of fire. They will use the 68 or 69 grain bullets (depending on manufacturor) at 200 and 300 yards, and then switch to the 77 or 80 grainers for the 600 line. These people are all loading their own cartridges, too.

Match bullets make lousy hunting bullets, but, allegedly, Hathcock was using matchgrade .30-'06 in his Model 70.

When they started the National Matches back running again after WWII, they used the AP '06 ammo, having found it to have been loaded more consistently than the M2 ball.

I cheat - I use the Black Hills matchgrade reloads for .223. Thirty cal is another matter entirely. I have recipes for both .308 and .30-'06 which I load myself.

I want more info on that round. I don't know where that .223 thought came from. The dessicated part of my brain may have caused a bit of static in the rest of it.

He was good at reading 'mirage' too. Lones Wigger is the only shooter I've met that was consistently better.

The 1:8 twist is a dead giveaway. It's too quick a twist for lighter loads, special order.

Ishmael

 

[Lost Cause]

The Virginia shooter profile...

Strangely sounds exactly like the Maryland shooter suspect profile before they caught the two black muslims.

Anyone care to wager that it is a muslim sympathizer?

How dangerous is it to give the public corrupted data and expect trust in the police department's ability to protect them?

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
If Maryland authorities hadn't been so PC in their profile, more people might be alive today.

 

[mbb308]

He was good at reading 'mirage' too. Lones Wigger is the only shooter I've met that was consistently better.

The 1:8 twist is a dead giveaway. It's too quick a twist for lighter loads, special order.

Ishmael

Mirage is important, especially in terms of reading the wind. This is absolutely critical to be a success as a long-range shooter.

Spotting this for yourself is a bitch, too. Nothing but practice (and a bit of teaching and instinct).

I think the factory 62 grain new NATO weight stuff is the lightest bullet that will shoot accurately in the 1:8 barrels.

I need to make my mind up to get serious about competitive shooting again, and then do what needs doing .

 

[mbb308]

Yeah , I had some weird reflexive attaction to him even though he rarely let up on ragging me. He looked just like Howdy Doody, ears and all, yet had a way of carrying himself and moving that was oddly catlike; very quick and never off-balance. We used to run down 150 feet of stairs to get to the parking lot and he was always way ahead of me, hitting every stair step with this odd twinkletoes-like stride.

Those good ol' boys have some interesting talents sometimes. They also know some things one might not expect them to.

Bubba Griznoid has taught me not to be too harsh nor quick to judge a book by the cover.