Another "pregnant Man" Giving Birth

[foxxxyvixxxen]

Ok I don't have a problem with Transgenders or Transvestites AT ALL cuz I sometimes feel like I shouldn't b a chick as well but when they start feeling like they're going against biology or God or whatever goes thru their mind by being a "man having a baby"...this is becoming sickening!

Ok...if I get a sex change...best believe I'm telling them to take my ovaries/eggs/whatever the fuck helps me reproduce and boil, fry, and baking it in a skillet! U could just stay a female then!!! NO ONE IS GONNA BELIEVE AN ACTUAL MAN CAN HAVE A BABY!!!

I kinda wish my mom would just b gay and maybe I might like her girlfriend better than I do her boyfriend but that's only IF she's more active in my life as well as my mom's and she helps me out from time to time unlike "deadweight" she got in here.

But here's the story...

http://www.wgntv.com/news/ktxl_news_pregnantman,0,6728428.story

 

[Etoile]

Holy crap, why does this make you so angry? How does it affect you even one little bit?

The reasons transmen don't get bottom surgery are many. Some can't afford it. Some don't want it, because the options aren't very good - science is better at creating a vagina than a penis. Some don't feel they need it to feel like a man. And some want to preserve the option of having their own biological children.

And who cares if they do? If they want to have kids, why not? I have a friend who did it; he and his partner are very happy with a lovely little daughter. They didn't go on TV, they just had a quiet 9-month pregnancy and that was that. It was a little hard because he had to stop taking T, but he pulled through it.

I did see an unusual story on TV the other day though: the first *accidentally* conceived trans pregnancy. Emily had been on female hormones for 10 years, so she and her partner Cai thought for sure Emily was sterile. Neither of them ever had bottom surgery, and surprise - Cai got pregnant. They didn't even know for 7 months, because Cai attributed his weight gain and moodiness to the T. (Which also took away his period, of course.) They finally thought gee, this is odd, lets take a pregnancy test. Fortunately they had a boy, or Cai's T might have cause problems if the baby had been female.

 

[John Doe]

Ok I don't have a problem with Transgenders or Transvestites AT ALL cuz I sometimes feel like I shouldn't b a chick as well but when they start feeling like they're going against biology or God or whatever goes thru their mind by being a "man having a baby"...this is becoming sickening!

Ok...if I get a sex change...best believe I'm telling them to take my ovaries/eggs/whatever the fuck helps me reproduce and boil, fry, and baking it in a skillet! U could just stay a female then!!! NO ONE IS GONNA BELIEVE AN ACTUAL MAN CAN HAVE A BABY!!!

I kinda wish my mom would just b gay and maybe I might like her girlfriend better than I do her boyfriend but that's only IF she's more active in my life as well as my mom's and she helps me out from time to time unlike "deadweight" she got in here.

But here's the story...

http://www.wgntv.com/news/ktxl_news_pregnantman,0,6728428.story

Your spelling, punctuation and excessive capitalization go against God.

 

[Shywong]

I wish the media would stop reporting these kind of things already. They make it seem like these people are doing it for the attention. But there's been what, 4 or 5 pregnant men in the past two years? It's nothing new or shocking anymore yet its still disturbing and repulsive to a lot of people, myself included. Sorry but I just can't acknowledge someone as a man if she's pregnant. If they want to have kids that's their business, I just wonder how that will impact the child's perception of gender.

 

[Etoile]

I wish the media would stop reporting these kind of things already. They make it seem like these people are doing it for the attention. But there's been what, 4 or 5 pregnant men in the past two years? It's nothing new or shocking anymore yet its still disturbing and repulsive to a lot of people, myself included. Sorry but I just can't acknowledge someone as a man if she's pregnant. If they want to have kids that's their business, I just wonder how that will impact the child's perception of gender.

Interesting that you changed "if they're pregnant" to "if she's pregnant" - I agree it does cloud the issue. One of the most fundamental differences between men and women - talking sex, not gender - is the ability to give birth. I'm not sure that being pregnant entitles you to call yourself 100% male. I mean, in other respects, sure. Thomas Beattie, the one from Oprah, sure looks like a guy. Buck Angel is ALL man. I don't have a problem with acknowledging these guys as being men, it's who they are. But when you go to have a child, I think it does make things more of a gray area. Simply because on Earth - not just in our society, but the whole planet - men don't give birth. Period. Not physically possible. Uterus = female. So...I dunno. It's weird. Gray area.

 

[sunandshadow]

What a stupid conversation. There's no valid reason to object to anyone wanting to be pregnant (with the possible exception of them not being able to afford to raise a child), whether the anyone happens to be living as a man or for that matter born as a man. I hope that male pregnancy (of actual XY born males) is a medical advance we will see in the next 100 years.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Simply because on Earth - not just in our society, but the whole planet - men don't give birth. Period. Not physically possible. Uterus = female. So...I dunno. It's weird. Gray area.

Because I love to poke at black and whites if you'd like I can PM you a list of intersexed individuals that have successfully managed to give birth. Also, take a look at this. I thought it was pretty interesting.

In response to OP, something I've seen in this article and nearly every other single article I've read about FTM pregnancies, the partner was unable to conceive. I don't think they take on the task lightly nor do I think they should be looked down upon wanting to be able to have a child of their own, I know I certainly wish I could conceive and would jump at the opportunity. I think this has everything to do with a couple wanting a child and nothing to do with political statements or gender statements (though I could be wrong). I find it amusing however that of all the people who have issues with this and the previous case, the people who seem to have the most problems with it are not in fact transsexual themselves. I mean, it's easy to pass judgment on someone when you have little to no understanding for their situation, reasons, or really anything about them beyond the fact they're pregnant. Nobody is claiming this is a genetical man who's gotten pregnant, it's quite clearly a spin media has attached for the pure shock value.

Finally, I'm not exactly sure how your familial status plays into this article.

 

[Etoile]

Because I love to poke at black and whites if you'd like I can PM you a list of intersexed individuals that have successfully managed to give birth. Also, take a look at this. I thought it was pretty interesting.

Wow, that is amazing. So interesting what "mistakes" can be made in the womb during formation. Reminds me of the case of Herculine Barbin, too - Michel Foucault collected the autopsy papers which described the genitalia exactly.

Nobody is claiming this is a genetical man who's gotten pregnant, it's quite clearly a spin media has attached for the pure shock value.

Kind of like the fact that this is only the second man who has done it.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Wow, that is amazing. So in---te-r-esting what "mistakes" can be made in the womb during formation. Reminds me of the case of Herculine Barbin, too - Michel Foucault collected the autopsy papers which described the genitalia exactly.


Kind of like the fact that this is only the second man who has done it.

True, admittedly it's the second though to get this much attention. The whole thing has the 'two headed cow' or 'two legged dog that walks like a person' feel to me. Not because the couples in question of in any way 'freaks' per se but just the way it's all being viewed and treated. The only things that really bother me about it is:

1) How it's really inflaming people into the whole "they aren't men because they're having babies and if they're real men they wouldn't be doing this" tirade I've been seeing, I don't think it's unnatural for a couple to want to have a baby that's their own child and I have no doubt that if in either case they could go about it any other way they would. People simply just do not have bottom surgery as extensive as phalloplasty and then turn around and have a pregnancy on a whim. That however tends to be overlooked in the name of making the argument that these people shouldn't be transitioning at all and that they still feel their "natural call". Frankly I want to see headlines that read "First woman to impregnate another woman!" well... not really but the point is that nobody quibbles over the number of MTFs who have fathered(excuse the term) children.

2) Besides bringing peoples attention to the fact that FTM's exist, it does little to help make people more aware of transexuals or trans politics beyond doing what the media has already done so artfully to depict them as freakish. For those arguing that that's not how this is being treated I would submit that when you pick a name like "first man to have a baby" that's exactly the intent. But on the retrospect I do think that it's good for the public to be aware of FTMs, they've so far managed to remain more camouflaged to the media than even bisexual males. You would be shocked how many hetero individuals simply don't even know they exist or that they exist with anything close to the numbers they do. It helps to put a different face on transexualism than the mentally unstable 'men in drag' view you normally see/hear.

 

[Etoile]

1) How it's really inflaming people into the whole "they aren't men because they're having babies and if they're real men they wouldn't be doing this" tirade I've been seeing, I don't think it's unnatural for a couple to want to have a baby that's their own child and I have no doubt that if in either case they could go about it any other way they would.

Oh I don't think it's unnatural at all. I think the motivation to have a biological child is EXTREMELY strong in some people. However, I do think it creates a gray area. I really do not care if someone is a "real" man - but approaching it from a sociological perspective, women traditionally do the child-bearing because they are the ones physically capable of doing so. If men could have babies, but it was still the woman's role ("more nurturing" or whatever), that would be a different story. But I think it is very much a sociological gray area to say "I am a man, I am of the male gender" and then perform an act that has historically been restricted to the female gender...NOT just sex. (And as I've mentioned elsewhere, sex and gender are completely different things.) Obviously only the female SEX can have babies. But it's also traditionally a female GENDER role to have babies. Now, there are plenty of women who are mechanics. They are going against a traditional female role and performing something typically assigned to men. Society slaps all kinds of labels on this - butch, masculine, etc. But women are physically capable of being mechanics. Men are not physically capable of being pregnant. To adopt the male gender and perform a role of the female SEX...I think that is gray. I'll have to bring this up in my sociology class.

People simply just do not have bottom surgery as extensive as phalloplasty and then turn around and have a pregnancy on a whim. That however tends to be overlooked in the name of making the argument that these people shouldn't be transitioning at all and that they still feel their "natural call". Frankly I want to see headlines that read "First woman to impregnate another woman!" well... not really but the point is that nobody quibbles over the number of MTFs who have fathered(excuse the term) children.

Whoa, have you heard of people having bottom surgery and then having babies? I sure haven't. Every transman who's had a kid that I know of, had not had bottom surgery at the time. I have never heard of having babies post-phalloplasty (or even metoidioplasty, since that procedure alters the genital structure as well), and if you have I would be interested to hear about it.

But no, I don't think they shouldn't be transitioning at all. (I don't think that part was directed at me, was it?) They have every right to transition, and every right to have kids post-transition, etc. I have no problem with it at all (unlike the OP). I just think it creates a sociological gray area, as I described above. Also, how many MTFs have you heard of who had biological offspring post-transition? As I described with Emily & Cai, I have heard that female hormones are supposed to make you sterile, so I had assumed that MTFs with kids had them pre-transition. Do you know otherwise? Emily was the first I heard of.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Oh I don't think it's unnatural at all. I think the motivation to have a biological child is EXTREMELY strong in some people. However, I do think it creates a gray area. I really do not care if someone is a "real" man - but approaching it from a sociological perspective, women traditionally do the child-bearing because they are the ones physically capable of doing so. If men could have babies, but it was still the woman's role ("more nurturing" or whatever), that would be a different story. But I think it is very much a sociological gray area to say "I am a man, I am of the male gender" and then perform an act that has historically been restricted to the female gender...NOT just sex. (And as I've mentioned elsewhere, sex and gender are completely different things.) Obviously only the female SEX can have babies. But it's also traditionally a female GENDER role to have babies. Now, there are plenty of women who are mechanics. They are going against a traditional female role and performing something typically assigned to men. Society slaps all kinds of labels on this - butch, masculine, etc. But women are physically capable of being mechanics. Men are not physically capable of being pregnant. To adopt the male gender and perform a role of the female SEX...I think that is gray. I'll have to bring this up in my sociology class.

I'd love to hear the result of that debate, I think I can safely say I agree that giving birth has been a trait that has been limited to the female gender. My comment was more directed at those who take that and use it to imply that someone shouldn't be transitioning at all if they do anything to break with their gender norms. Sadly I've seen the line of rationalizing used withing and without the trans community to define what role someone should aspire to or how to aspire. I was just thinking back at the time to the number of arguments with "the first man to get pregnant" where people felt that it was just two lesbians getting pregnant, how dare he transition and then go and have a child, etc and etc so on.

Whoa, have you heard of people having bottom surgery and then having babies? I sure haven't. Every transman who's had a kid that I know of, had not had bottom surgery at the time. I have never heard of having babies post-phalloplasty (or even metoidioplasty, since that procedure alters the genital structure as well), and if you have I would be interested to hear about it.

Strike that, I mixed thomas and scott up in the story. I tried to work out how one would get pregnant after a phalloplasty and assumed that they possibly had intact ovum and uterus (completely missing the hysterectomy bit.

But no, I don't think they shouldn't be transitioning at all. (I don't think that part was directed at me, was it?)

Sorry about that, probably should have separated it better but about only the first sentence was directed at you, I was just using that as a jumping point to continue a thought and more or less relating more to the OP.

Also, how many MTFs have you heard of who had biological offspring post-transition? As I described with Emily & Cai, I have heard that female hormones are supposed to make you sterile, so I had assumed that MTFs with kids had them pre-transition. Do you know otherwise? Emily was the first I heard of.

I can think of 4 couples in the greater DC area off hand who have had biological offspring post-transition and a couple hand fulls who have sperm on ice. Many MtF's have sperm frozen away in case they want to later have children. Also, it's not the estrogen but the antiandrogens that drop the sperm count and it can take a while to actually cause sterility nor necessarily permanent if a person stops therapy.... though most only do that after a vagioplasty... which does cause rather immediate and permanent sterility.

 

[Jagged]

I find it all very strange, but like people being gay it is something I don't care about...I mean really it doesn't effect me, and there are all consenting adults involved. They aren't breaking the law, and why this pair could have just been lesbians who got a sperm donor is beyond me, but I'm not them. A number of transexual men who become women become lesbians. All I can think is that is a lot of effort to get back to square one, but whatever.

 

[infinity706]

I'm more in the why the hell should we even care camp. I'm more impressed that there's an actual planned pregnancy.

 

[Wolfman1982]

hmmm if the child is going to born from a man, and the child is a son. Should he then be called Mohammed ? after all according to legend, then Mohammed shall be reborn by a man. IF any one sees this as racist, then it is not racist. Cause all those pregnant men makes it quite amusing. Hell has any one read Als baby ? I have read the first one in Danish, the second one in English and they are bloody fun.

 

[Etoile]

Cause all those pregnant men makes it quite amusing.

Oh yes, it's just hilarious when trans people try to form a family and live normal lives! I know it makes me crack up laughing!

 

[Wolfman1982]

Oh yes, it's just hilarious when trans people try to form a family and live normal lives! I know it makes me crack up laughing!

Etoile, and to all others who misunderstood the meaning. What I meant is this, the whole pregnant man issue is amusing, not the joy of family. Sorry to those who misunderstood it. I saw the documentary about the Oprah pregnant man , and I was like "well he is a man, so be it". To me being a man does not always include the equipment.

Fuck, take it easy with the guns Etoile. Since you know damn well how many times I have defended you. Would you also attack a stand comedian who made a joke like that ? oh yeah I forgot, Amin Jensen made a joke about the rebirth of Mohammed in hist first stand up show, so please attack him.

And oh yeah, back when Prince Joachim of Denmark had got his first son, from his first marriage. Some dude called my mother (newspaper subscription dude) and said to her "have you heard Price Joachim has gotten a son ?" and my mother asked back "Is it Mohammed ?". And neither I or my dear mother are racists or GLBT phobes. So Etoile hold your horses, beforehand.

 

[Etoile]

Etoile, and to all others who misunderstood the meaning. What I meant is this, the whole pregnant man issue is amusing, not the joy of family. Sorry to those who misunderstood it. I saw the documentary about the Oprah pregnant man , and I was like "well he is a man, so be it". To me being a man does not always include the equipment.

Fuck, take it easy with the guns Etoile. Since you know damn well how many times I have defended you. Would you also attack a stand comedian who made a joke like that ? oh yeah I forgot, Amin Jensen made a joke about the rebirth of Mohammed in hist first stand up show, so please attack him.

And oh yeah, back when Prince Joachim of Denmark had got his first son, from his first marriage. Some dude called my mother (newspaper subscription dude) and said to her "have you heard Price Joachim has gotten a son ?" and my mother asked back "Is it Mohammed ?". And neither I or my dear mother are racists or GLBT phobes. So Etoile hold your horses, beforehand.

Wow, seriously? You need to check yourself. You made an offensive comment, and I responded. My comment had nothing to do with race, it had to do with you calling pregnant men "amusing." You're STILL doing it. Now, I'm guessing you mean the media hoopla surrounding pregnant transmen is amusing. But you need to SAY THAT. Because the comment you made was extremely offensive due to being totally unclear. I don't coddle people when they say something offensive, and I can't read your mind to realize you didn't mean it to come out that way. Or maybe you did, and you think I should let you get away with it, because we're buddies or whatever. But I have said many times over the years, I respond to ideas, not people. If my best friend says something idiotic, you better believe I'm going to call him on it. Doesn't mean he's not my friend, just means he said a dumb thing. That's what's going on here.

 

[John Doe]

Etoile, and to all others who misunderstood the meaning. What I meant is this, the whole pregnant man issue is amusing, not the joy of family. Sorry to those who misunderstood it. I saw the documentary about the Oprah pregnant man , and I was like "well he is a man, so be it". To me being a man does not always include the equipment.

Fuck, take it easy with the guns Etoile. Since you know damn well how many times I have defended you. Would you also attack a stand comedian who made a joke like that ? oh yeah I forgot, Amin Jensen made a joke about the rebirth of Mohammed in hist first stand up show, so please attack him.

And oh yeah, back when Prince Joachim of Denmark had got his first son, from his first marriage. Some dude called my mother (newspaper subscription dude) and said to her "have you heard Price Joachim has gotten a son ?" and my mother asked back "Is it Mohammed ?". And neither I or my dear mother are racists or GLBT phobes. So Etoile hold your horses, beforehand.

She didn't attack you.

 

[Wolfman1982]

okay my comment was very inappropriate , but humour is that way sometimes. But if I may be clear on one thing, then my comment was NOT bound to those who struggles to get a family. The whole birth thing was said in a lighter tone. Cause there are so many fun comics, and what not that has a lighter tone to it, when it comes to male pregnancy and quite a lot are made LONG before the whole "female to male" transgender pregnancies became such a big matter.

 

[Etoile]

okay my comment was very inappropriate , but humour is that way sometimes. But if I may be clear on one thing, then my comment was NOT bound to those who struggles to get a family. The whole birth thing was said in a lighter tone. Cause there are so many fun comics, and what not that has a lighter tone to it, when it comes to male pregnancy and quite a lot are made LONG before the whole "female to male" transgender pregnancies became such a big matter.

You're still making excuses. It would be one thing if you were Lisa Lampanelli.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Etoile: what am I supposed to say ? Sorry ? Okay fine, I am sorry that I fucked up. And Lisa Lampanelli is a woman, and that I am not. And me making a joke, is the reason why I got spanked. Is that clear enough ?

JMFC

 

[Etoile]

Etoile: what am I supposed to say ? Sorry ? Okay fine, I am sorry that I fucked up. And Lisa Lampanelli is a woman, and that I am not. And me making a joke, is the reason why I got spanked. Is that clear enough ?

JMFC

You still aren't getting it. Whatever.

 

[Wolfman1982]

You still aren't getting it. Whatever.

Well, perhaps my English is not good enough then. Cause it was never my attention to piss off female to male transgender people, or their friends. And yes I can see now how my post, looks like that. Because of missing punctuation and what not. My joke is just about, since it is a pregnant man getting a child, then my joke answer was about the old legend of a certain fellow being reborn. And my thoughts to Amin Jensen, and the comic Als baby which was a fun comic. It was never about any kind of Gods abomination , or the struggle of people getting pregnant or not. The "first" pregnant was not even the first, and who knows what. The only thing that has blown out of proportions, are the whole case from the getgo. And here I am talking about the poster of this thread. I am just trying to light hearted in my first response, but it seems to me. That I should shut the hell up, cause I think there has been a few "pregnant what not" here around. And the Danes took it very casually , hell the Danish case I am thinking off was a REAL hermaphrodite who lived as a male until she fell for a man, and she decided it was time to be a woman, and not both genders. And the only Danish tabloid blew it up, but it was nothing. Other than medically she was a real (and rare) hermaphrodite who later got pregnant and there was a nice sweet little documentary about on Denmarks radio about it all. So I do NOT laugh of any kind of struggles. Even though my first post looked like it, and that I am truly sorry about.

So Etoile to end it on a lighter note: You've got the Brain, I've got the brawns lets make lots of money. And to be honest, I think the American pregnant man case is blown out of proportions with a little intervention with Oprah. Cause as I have read earlier in this thread. There has been documented "pregnant man" cases before the guy on Oprah, and I think there probably has been many more undocumented cases before all this.
So peace to the pregnant man. Cause I think I would be bawling in a matter of months if I had a child inside of me. All the pregnant men in the world, you rock ! Cause I doubt many XY men would handle it as cool.

 

[lightsaver]

I am happy for anyone who wants and tries to become a parent. A real parent.
There are not enough out there and we all know it.

Whether you are born with your sex (genitalia) matching your gender (in your brain) or not - I doubt it has anything to do with an individual's genuine love and interest in becoming and wanting to be a parent.

If the best interest of the child is kept paramount, that is all that matters.

Even I know that and I am a woman of child bearing age, in good health, fertile and without any interest in child bearing whatsoevah.