Another Newbie question

[Joesephus]

I'm about 30K words into a story (about half done) and I have a question about which way to handle the next section. I know that there are volunteer editors (Lord knows I need them) but this is more a writer's type question.

My question is: Is there anyplace that I can go to get suggestions on which way to handle my plot?

 

[Tom Collins]

Right here, J. Ask away and someone, likely several someones, will give you as many opinions as you can handle.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Story feedback and SDC forums might help as well. You can post what you have and open it up for suggestions.

Shanglan

 

[Joesephus]

Right here, J. Ask away and someone, likely several someones, will give you as many opinions as you can handle.

My heroine brand new husband is about to do a Scarlet Pimpernel impersonation while he builds support for a revolution. My heroine is a very bright but typical American with limited understanding of her husband's country or culture. She knows that he is fomenting revolution, but none of the players or methods.

I can either have him tell her before he begins his impersonation of his plan or start it without telling her. There is a good story line either way, but of course there is more personal conflict if he chooses to cut her out of part of his plan. Since this is a googy Romance I'm just not sure which way to go. Originally I had planned to have him start it without her, but the next thing I knew he was sharing his plan with her after a torrid, and two day late consummation of their quickie marriage.

The main plot is about her growth, but I don't know if anyone can offer informed advice with at least reading part of what is there.

 

[Joesephus]

Story feedback and SDC forums might help as well. You can post what you have and open it up for suggestions.

Shanglan

How does that work, right now the story is in very rough shape as far as grammar and such. I would call most of it pre-first draft.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think you're touching on an interesting tension there, and I think that the way in which you've described it makes the idea of him sharing it sound appealing. If he doesn't know her well and this is an arranged marriage sort of thing, then you've got a good opportunity to use the sweep and drama of the revolution/double life add excitement while his impulsive decision to reveal his plans both adds a sense that he's opening up to his new bride and also encourages greater progression of intimacy given that he's willing to trust her. Seems like that would be an enticing line for the wife, as she's likely to be both flattered by his revelation and excited (if nervous) about his actions. That personal intimacy could then build to her gradually learning and feeling more about the revolution herself, as she learns about it through him. That gives you a neat way to move those two issues forward by letting them drive each other.

Just my tuppence -

Shanglan

 

[dr_mabeuse]

If I tell you, will I get co-author credits? I should, shouldn't I? Is that what you want?

I don't mean to be facetious, because I've been in the same situation myself with a story, and done the same thing--run to others for opinions and ideas. Amazing how that can firm up your own ideas when you realize how wrong their suggestions are.

I think you just have to work this one out for yourself, Joe. The scanty information you provide is simply not enough to base an opinion on (what's his character? Hers?) , and if it were, do you really want to write a story by committee? I think what you probably need is just an opportunity to bounce some ideas off other people to clarify your thinking. You might want to site down and write two alternate synopses of what would happen in each alternative, and pick the one you like best.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I don't mean to be facetious, because I've been in the same situation myself with a story, and done the same thing--run to others for opinions and ideas. Amazing how that can firm up your own ideas when you realize how wrong their suggestions are.

*cough*

Yes, that's what I was, um, providing there ... quite deliberate of course ...

 

[maggot420]

*cough*

Yes, that's what I was, um, providing there ... quite deliberate of course ...

Yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing for umm *cough* the same reason...

 

[Joesephus]

If I tell you, will I get co-author credits? I should, shouldn't I? Is that what you want?

I don't mean to be facetious, because I've been in the same situation myself with a story, and done the same thing--run to others for opinions and ideas. Amazing how that can firm up your own ideas when you realize how wrong their suggestions are.

I think you just have to work this one out for yourself, Joe. The scanty information you provide is simply not enough to base an opinion on (what's his character? Hers?) , and if it were, do you really want to write a story by committee? I think what you probably need is just an opportunity to bounce some ideas off other people to clarify your thinking. You might want to site down and write two alternate synopses of what would happen in each alternative, and pick the one you like best.

I'm so new at this whole process that I have even begun to turn green, much less gotten rid of it.

However, I don't see asking for plot advice as asking for someone to write it for you. I found the advice given useful. I've indicated the direction that my instincts are taking me and certainly it's my job to work out the story. Still, asking others for the wisdom of their experience seems a wise thing for a newbie to do.

I'm just a college kid, and a business major at that. Still, while I believe that you don't do good writing by focus groups asking advice can help you avoid clichés or unrealistic behavior. In my case, I'm writing in the female POV, my penance for having such unrealistic female character, so among other things I'm trying to figure out how a wife would react to being deceived or being asked to be part of a deception. (I'm also working on run on sentences.)

The basic plot of the story is unchanged by this sub-plot. What I'm really talking about is a chapter where the heroine is either annoyed at her brand new husband behaving out of character or her trying to act out of character herself. Since this is a romance I think their marriage would be better if she's told. However, stories need conflict and this is an opportunity to provide just a bit.

I don't mind writing the chapter both ways and asking for advice on which works better. However, as I've said I'm so new at this my shoes haven't even started to squeak yet.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I'm so new at this whole process that I have even begun to turn green, much less gotten rid of it.

However, I don't see asking for plot advice as asking for someone to write it for you. I found the advice given useful. I've indicated the direction that my instincts are taking me and certainly it's my job to work out the story. Still, asking others for the wisdom of their experience seems a wise thing for a newbie to do.

Actually, that was one of those times (those many, many times) when Mab wasn't necessarily asking to be taken seriously. Note, he didn't really even answer you.

I'm just a college kid, and a business major at that. Still, while I believe that you don't do good writing by focus groups asking advice can help you avoid clichés or unrealistic behavior. In my case, I'm writing in the female POV, my penance for having such unrealistic female character, so among other things I'm trying to figure out how a wife would react to being deceived or being asked to be part of a deception. (I'm also working on run on sentences.)

The basic plot of the story is unchanged by this sub-plot. What I'm really talking about is a chapter where the heroine is either annoyed at her brand new husband behaving out of character or her trying to act out of character herself. Since this is a romance I think their marriage would be better if she's told. However, stories need conflict and this is an opportunity to provide just a bit.

I don't mind writing the chapter both ways and asking for advice on which works better. However, as I've said I'm so new at this my shoes haven't even started to squeak yet.

Two questions you might want to ask yourself:

1) If it's a romance, then it seems the plot of the story would be the relationship between the two, not the things that affect the relationship, hence, this "sub-plot" would greatly affect the overall plot, would it not? If the romance is secondary, then it's different. Which is the main theme?

2) Can anyone actually tell you which direction to take a story? I'd say no. If it were gramatical, we could respond, but we're writers here, and we know that our work is our work. We make the choices if it doesn't actually tell us where to go. The question I'm getting at: After 30k words, if the story isn't telling you where to take things, is there a right choice, or a wrong one for that matter?

Sorry if that seems... unhelpful.

Q_C

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I don't see asking for plot advice as asking for someone to write it for you.

Especially since no one even has to read this, much less respond. I will try not to offer advice, but throw this out just for the fun of "brain storming": This may be another way of saying what Horsie said, but mabe she could do a "Lois Lane" thing vis a vis Clark Kent and Superman. In this instance, she loves her husband, but loves the romantic revolutionay, like from a distance. The movie "True Lies" had a similar set up.

Then, when she learns the truth . . . probably that would be an excuse for a sex scene.

 

[Guest]

If I may add my own two cents...depending upon the time your storyline is based upon, most husbands in a revolutionary setting in "the old days" wouldn't tell their wives, who were thought of as little more than fixtures, anything.

So you take it one of two ways, one, tell her and make it a basis upon which their marriage can grow, his willing to confide and value her opinion.

Or, don't tell her and she can sneak around and find out things on her own, then confront him with a torrid clothes ripping off sex scene after the fight...I personally like the idea of the second one. Much more interesting when the confrontation happens.

But only my two cents.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Please- have him tell her. That keeping a secret thing is what killed Othello and Desdemona- and it's such a fucking cliche.
He tells her, and she is NOT happy about it- since she doesn't understand his country, and she's a new and naive bride, who just wants to settle in and enjoy her new marriage for a while. She's pissed off that she isn't the center of his world in the way she thought she'd be.

Her learning to understand his priorities, and beging to take an active part in his goals- and finding out why they should be her goals as well- that's some good character growth.

Him learning that her input is valuable, and beginning to appreciate her for more than he thought she had- that could be a good one for him. He thinks he's getting the typical helpmeet wifey-poo- he gets an intelligent and active companion who stands beside him, instead of behind him.

 

[TheEarl]

I think Mab's got a point - the best way to find out which one you want to go for is to ask someone else. If they say the option which you were secretly rooting for, then you'll commend them on their good avice. If they don't, then you'll ignore it and go with what you really wanted to do anyway.

The Earl

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I think Mab's got a point - the best way to find out which one you want to go for is to ask someone else. If they say the option which you were secretly rooting for, then you'll commend them on their good avice. If they don't, then you'll ignore it and go with what you really wanted to do anyway.

The Earl

Well-said.

I still can't relate to a story that doesn't tell me what to do, though...

Q_C

 

[Joesephus]

If I may add my own two cents...depending upon the time your storyline is based upon, most husbands in a revolutionary setting in "the old days" wouldn't tell their wives, who were thought of as little more than fixtures, anything.

So you take it one of two ways, one, tell her and make it a basis upon which their marriage can grow, his willing to confide and value her opinion.

Or, don't tell her and she can sneak around and find out things on her own, then confront him with a torrid clothes ripping off sex scene after the fight...I personally like the idea of the second one. Much more interesting when the confrontation happens.

But only my two cents.

The time is the present, however, for some strange reason the local is South America. The cultural inclination would be not to tell, and orginally I liked the concept of the American girl wondering why her husband was acting so out of character now that they're married.

In fact that's the way I had the story written in my head. However, as close as these two lovers are I had to ask myself if he could pull it off, even for a short time.

Then there's the problem of her growth as a character. Would being treated as a mushroom get in the way of a natural growth. I tend to think it would.

Frankly, I'm finding this whole discussion very helpful. I'm not posting to each response... (I'm still in South America where a internet cafe with a 28K dial-up connection and 30 useres is considered acceptable.) However, I've found each posting to be very thought provoking.

 

[Joesephus]

I think Mab's got a point - the best way to find out which one you want to go for is to ask someone else. If they say the option which you were secretly rooting for, then you'll commend them on their good avice. If they don't, then you'll ignore it and go with what you really wanted to do anyway.

The Earl

Very wise, I think what I'm trying find out is which one I'm secretly rooting for. I think I can write a good story either way, but the emotions of the girl are the thing that is giving me trouble.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I don't mind writing the chapter both ways and asking for advice on which works better. However, as I've said I'm so new at this my shoes haven't even started to squeak yet.

I just like this phrase. How charming you've been, and what a pleasure to meet.

I'm curious as I learn more about this situation. Why has your heroine married a man whom she evidently doesn't know very well and about whose culture she is fairly ignorant - especially when they evidently plan to live in his homeland? I think that that might bear on the question of whether he tells her and how she reacts to the news.

Shanglan

 

[Joesephus]

I just like this phrase. How charming you've been, and what a pleasure to meet.

I'm curious as I learn more about this situation. Why has your heroine married a man whom she evidently doesn't know very well and about whose culture she is fairly ignorant - especially when they evidently plan to live in his homeland? I think that that might bear on the question of whether he tells her and how she reacts to the news.

Shanglan

Therein lies the problem. The answers to those questions took 30K words so they didn't sound trite or contrived. Basically, the story is one of upset expectations. My working title is "Love's Labor Lost" and while I don't follow that story line, I do like the way the old English plays misrepresented the players. In today's world where you google your date, it's harder, but I've tried to make it as realistic as I can.

I rely on three things that I've observed in five years living in North America. Americans know little about other countries (unless they're at war with them) and most college students know less about current events than anyone on Earth. Finally, humans in general will make assumptions, act on them to incredible degrees and never re-examine those assumptions.

If anyone wants to read it, in its present state of disarray, I'm happy to share it to get an informed opinion. I'm just not sure I can lay it out easily.

 

[3113]

If it's from the woman's p.o.v., then he HAS to tell her. Otherwise the whole story is about her finding out. I don't think you want that. If he tells her, then we can bewith her as she waits for news--tense and dramatic. We can go with her as she tries to rescue him out of a dangerous position without giving away the secret that he's her husband, and we're with her as she gets deeper and deeper involved with him--and gets angry at what his double life is doing to their marriage, etc., etc, etc.

If it was from BOTH points of views--switch man to woman and back again--then you'd get more milage out of keeping it a secret.

 

[Joesephus]

If it's from the woman's p.o.v., then he HAS to tell her. Otherwise the whole story is about her finding out. I don't think you want that. If he tells her, then we can bewith her as she waits for news--tense and dramatic. We can go with her as she tries to rescue him out of a dangerous position without giving away the secret that he's her husband, and we're with her as she gets deeper and deeper involved with him--and gets angry at what his double life is doing to their marriage, etc., etc, etc.

If it was from BOTH points of views--switch man to woman and back again--then you'd get more milage out of keeping it a secret.

Thanks, that's the ah-ha that I was looking for. It is written from her POV, and in my head the discovery was just a mild sort of joke on the heroine's lack of understanding. I don't want to do that, and I don't want to re-hash a very good book (Scarlet Pimpernel.)

Thanks again.