Another neo-con heard from

[thebullet]

Today I received the following anonymous feedback to my story Tales of the eKids Chapter 2:

You have no future of any kind until you start to learn why this is THE ONLY FREE NATION ON THIS PLANET.

Jeez, I wonder how Canada feels about that statement. Or Australia, or New Zealand, or Jamaica, or Germany, or the UK, or ...

As this nation flees from it's founders it loses inalienable freedoms. Not from Man but from his Creator. Man bestows no freedoms only chains.

You got me there Mr. Anonymous. I, too have been bemoaning the loss of the freedoms granted us by our founders at the hands of the current administration. And like you, Mr. Anonymous, I'm sure glad that God wrote the Bill of Rights.

quoting a line from Tales of the eKids. Emmy is the politician in our family. She's perfect. She's a bigger dick than Dick Nixon or Dick Cheney and she doesn't even have a dick!

Only a fool's fool would accept such a misguided statement.

Mr. Anonymous, I assure you I was exaggerating. I know perfectly well that it would be impossible for Emmy to be a bigger dick than Dick Cheney.

You betray your own ignorance and demonstrate that you have nothing to say. We can read no further.

Anonymous because you have nothing to say.

Mr. Anonymous, like all neo-cons, you don't do dialogue, only monologue. You speak anonymously because you are incapable of holding a man to man discussion about this fascist regime that has begun to destroy all that our country was founded upon.

Like all neo-cons, you only wish to shout down opposition. Well as an American who truly believes in the Constitution of the United States, I have found my own voice, one that you and your kind can't shout down. I've reached hundreds of thousands of people around the world with my little stories. And I tell it like it is.

This country is in trouble. 9/11 has been seized upon by the neo-cons as the very event they needed to grab control of the country and (possibly) never let it go. Like Hitler's Nazis before them, they use fear and hatred to control the masses. And they control the media more than any administration in history to insure that the truth doesn't get out.

Thank God the current administration came along after the founding of the internet. The WWW must be a tremendous thorn in their side. Until they figure out a way to control it or shut it down, the truth will continue to be heard.

 

[Edward Teach]

Today I received the following anonymous feedback to my story Tales of the eKids Chapter 2
:quoting a line from Tales of the eKids. Emmy is the politician in our family. She's perfect. She's a bigger dick than Dick Nixon or Dick Cheney and she doesn't even have a dick!

You used the "C" word, Bullet, you used the "C" word.

Damn, man. You know that you can't expect to get away with that!

It is worse than writing an incest story or mentioning abortion.

Damn, man, have you lost your mind?

Ed

Ps- Don't answer your door for a few days - Patriot Act.

 

[thebullet]

My latest chapter has been discovered by the neo-cons. Or maybe someone just doesn't like it.

This morning Chapter 6 of Tales of the eKids was sitting with a rating of 4.96. Since there were 51 votes, it meant that it had 49 '5' votes and 2 '4' votes. (I don't usually monitor my scores, but every now and then I take a look. That's how I fell upon this.) After receiving a neo-con email I thought I should look at my score again. There were now 53 votes and my score had dropped to 4.87. That means I got another '4' and a '1', I think. I'm guessing the '1' vote came from the neo-con.

Jeez, Mr. Neo-con, I wouldn't even give a '1' vote to Mein Kampf.

 

[cantdog]

Ticket holders were turned away from a GW Bush appearance on the campaign before they even got as far as the Secret Service. One of them had once worked for a Democratic campaign. They were told they were a national security risk and the tickets were void. They were "flagged," the man told them.

Being of another party = being a threat to the nation

The Communist Party in the USSR and the National Socialists in the Reich felt that way, too. But this is the party of freedom, so I guess it's really different, somehow.


cantdog

 

[Pure]

so don't mess with Dick!

 

[GingerV]

Said it before, gonna be saying it again...I don't for the life of me understand how those loyalty oaths haven't got more people pissed as hell.

G

 

[sweetnpetite]

Jeez, Mr. Neo-con, I wouldn't even give a '1' vote to Mein Kampf.

Don't you know, that's what's wrong with you?

It's not enough to love America- you must hate anyone else who doesn't. And hand out 1s to all who are not Patriotic enough to know that this is the only free nation in the world!

keep on keepin' on bullet. ignore the ignorant and the hatefilled, and especially the neo-cons!

 

[amicus]

Another neo-con heard from
Today I received the following anonymous feedback to my story Tales of the eKids Chapter 2:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have no future of any kind until you start to learn why this is THE ONLY FREE NATION ON THIS PLANET.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeez, I wonder how Canada feels about that statement. Or Australia, or New Zealand, or Jamaica, or Germany, or the UK, or ..."

Quoted from threadstarter thebullet....

(editing...by the way cuz, I think all the mentioned nations above have high taxation, socialized medicine, and a lot less 'freedom' than you imply)


Dear Bullet.....not that it matters, but if not for you and DCRoi, who must have a combined 50 stories in the top 100 lists of both Romance and Novels, my stories would be closer to the top.

That doesn't bother me at all, as we all run the gauntlet of trolls and those who cast '1' votes on stories. I have stories rated between 4.72 and 4.79 that are hanging around number 300 on the lists. I also have an entire novel of stories, most with 8 or 9 votes, rated above 4.80 that just can't seem to get the extra couple of votes to be listed. But then, it is not an erotic novel and I understand that.

I personally read all your stories in the 'Death by Fucking' series that morphed into the 'E-kids' stories, gave you a 5 vote on most everyone...or refrained from voting at all. But, I stopped reading your stories when they went blatantly political

You are quite welcome, in this country, to your political viewpoint, whatever it may be, but like the religious right, when you present your viewpoint in such a way as to demean all other points of view and when you present those views with religious certainty, as if the rest of the world of thought was beneath consideration, it is no longer a pleasure to read.

Also, you display the same tactics as the current political left in the Presidential campaign now taking place.

You attack only and never present a moral or rational foundation for the politics/philosophy that drive your story.

I will ask you one question, on one issue, but it will apply to all the political aspirations of the liberal left.

The issue is health care, national health care, socialized medicine, call it what you will.

My question is, how do you justify confiscating the wealth of the common man by force (by taxation) to support such a system, and secondly, how do you justify using force to compel those in the medical field to accept the system?

You blithely impose your idealistic vision upon society without regard for the rights of the individual man, be it taxpayer or Doctor.

I, for one, object when you advocate taking my money to pay for a health plan that I may not want. I also object to you advocating that you have a right to dictate to my daughter, (who is a medical professional) how her life's work will be accomplished under the heel of government.

I think that neither you nor any of the extreme liberal left have the audacity to come out and say that you and your vision are so intellectually superiour to we the common man that you will force us to do your bidding, 'in our own best interest' or for the greater good....

For you see, that is the very heart and core of your beliefs: that you and your ilk somehow have a 'moral' right to forcefully impose upon society your greater vision.

And what makes that any different than the rabid christian right or the rabid muslim left who openly advocate oppression?

Ball is in your court my friend....

amicus the insufferable....

 

[thebullet]

amicus the insufferable:

Amicus, assumption is the mother of all fuckups

My question is, how do you justify confiscating the wealth of the common man by force (by taxation) to support such a system, and secondly, how do you justify using force to compel those in the medical field to accept the system?

Whatever made you think that I am in favor of socialized medicine? I don't recall ever making that argument on this website or anywhere else.

Talk about confiscating the wealth of the common man! I was paying over $900/month for health insurance, had a $2,000 per person deductible, and still had most of my claims rejected by my carrier. If you favor the health system we currently have in this country, then you are a fucking idiot. No offense intended. We are the allegedly richest country in the world and yet (what is it?) 40,000,000 citizens are without health insurance. This is good? This is fair? This makes our country great? Amicus, you are blowing smoke up your own ass.

 

[amicus]

Amicus enters stage right, adroitly blowing perfect smoke rings from anal orifice...


Once again Bullet, you cannot see the trees for the forest.


Health insurance for military personel and then government employees and then Union laborers acquired through vested interests in Government and Labor. Through special interest groups, through coercion..set the trend.

Social Democracies, such as Canada and Great Britain, under socialist influence embarked on a great humanitarian experiment of providing free health care to all.

That experiment failed, as doctors fled those countries and healthcare became like the post office, another government agency that doesnt give a damn how long people wait for service.

I too, have paid huge amounts for health programs that did not satisfy in the least my idea of what making a purchase mght be expected to provide.

I have stated on other threads that the Medical Profession has for many years, acted to limit the amount of healthcare available so as to keep those services at a premium.

The only answer, the only solution, is to open the field of medicine to free market competition...to eliminate most of the licensing requirements, to relax the control of the professionals and the bureaucrats and let the market place work.

I guarantee you, there would be as many medical clinics as there are fast food joints in every community in the country.

And like a Big Mac, or a Burrito Surpreme, or a Meatball sub, or a Chicago style deep dish pizza...you would be free to make your choice based on your preferences and your ability to pay.

Would some choose The Outback and a rare fillet over a big mac and fries? I am sure they would...

Medicine and I might add education and retirement plans should be treated as just another commodity in the market place. Then and only then will the system provide adequate services at an affordable price for all.

Government can not, has never and never will supply goods and services the meet the requirements of society.

amicus....

 

[thebullet]

Amicus the gullible:

The only answer, the only solution, is to open the field of medicine to free market competition...to eliminate most of the licensing requirements, to relax the control of the professionals and the bureaucrats and let the market place work.

I guarantee you, there would be as many medical clinics as there are fast food joints in every community in the country.

When, oh when will you ever learn? Free market competition is a myth! Their ain't no such animal. In the extremely unlikely event that your utopia would work, the poor would be receiving shitty health care and the rich would be receiving wonderful health care. But I suppose that's okay with you.

But your little utopia is an impossibility. No one wants a free market! Least of all the pharmacuticals and the medical profession. There is not now, nor will there ever be, a free market. STOP FOOLING YOURSELF.

Just sit there smoking your hooka and weaving your pipe dreamed utopian concepts. Please allow the adults in the real world to argue reality.

 

[amicus]

thebullet said:

"In the extremely unlikely event that your utopia would work, the poor would be receiving shitty health care and the rich would be receiving wonderful health care. But I suppose that's okay with you."



and your utopian socialism would give equal care to all...sighs, you are right...we have nothing to discuss...

 

[rgraham666]

Give it up, bullet. Amicus knows The Truth, don't ya know?

No sense in confusing him with facts, logic, or (shudder) empathy.

I'm Candian, and am I glad of that. If I lived in the States, I would have been worm food for over ten years.

 

[Just-Legal]

Amicus - You say the UK failed. In some respects, you're right, we have failed. Look at the waiting lists. *sigh*

HOWEVER!

At least everyone is GUARANTEED treatment AT POINT OF NEED. You don't run the risk of not being treated because you can't afford it, which is, as far as I have been informed, one of the problems in the US. All medicines are at a set price, and if you are on income support, under 18 or elderly, you don't even pay that.

The top-up system seems, at the moment, to be the way to go. It covers basic treatments and waiting lists, and if you want to go private, you pay a "top up fee".

I'm sorry, but I'd rather be taxed a little bit more and know that if I ever lost my job I could still guarantee being able to get treated than get paid a little more and have to worry about health insurance.

Helen -- tired and probably not making sense.

Edited to add: Relax licensing? Are you MAD?! Yes, strict licensing means there is less supply than demand, but at least I know my doctor or medicine isn't going to KILL me! (okay, maybe not so much with the medicine but we won't go there because that's a whoooole nother issue)

 

[thebullet]

Amicus wrote:

and your utopian socialism would give equal care to all...sighs, you are right...we have nothing to discuss...

Amicus, my lad. Why do you insist on grouping me with socialism? Where have I given you any hint that I am a socialist or believe in socialized anything? Or are you one who belives that any government involvement is necessarily socialism?

Amicus: I want you to be the first in line to be operated on by the physician who is unlicensed because the free marketplace doesn't require it. Gee, do you think he should bother sterilizing his instruments? Naah, he'll just have to use 'em again in a few minutes on some other lucky prol.

 

[amicus]

Thebullet....


I have traveled in just about every state in the union, most of canada, some of Mexico, most of western europe.

I have eaten at a thousand mom and pop restaurants and chain fast food outlets...made purchases from hundreds of markets, large and small...

And you know what? I never died from food poisoning....

...and I know what you are going to say...so forget it...

I also owned an operated a restaurant and have worked in other eating establishments and I KNOW all about health department food inspections and licensing procedures....

You are of the misguided perception that 'government rules and inspections and licensing' account for, establish and maintain quality service for products and services. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

It is the integrity of each shop owner and the desire to have return customers that drives the quest for providing quality service.

and to be perfectly blunt with you, I would much rather seek service from a private supplier of medical care than I would one run by bureaucrats at any level.

Your built in bias against a free society, whether you claim socialism or not, is a matter for you to deal with, not me.

This nation...this free nation...was built by individual entrepeneurs offering quality goods and services without guidance, control, restriction or regulation by government. and if you get the hell out of the way...we will continue to do so.


amicus....

 

[SeaCat]

I have stated on other threads that the Medical Profession has for many years, acted to limit the amount of healthcare available so as to keep those services at a premium.

The only answer, the only solution, is to open the field of medicine to free market competition...to eliminate most of the licensing requirements, to relax the control of the professionals and the bureaucrats and let the market place work.
amicus....

SeaCat enters from the crowd at center stage, ducking and dodging the thrown HorseShit while trying to breath through all the smoke.

Amicus, I have to ask you to clarify a point or so with me. After reading the part of your post I have quoted above, I wish to ask. How has the medical profession acted to limit the amount of healthcare available? Is it through the A.M.A. and other liscensing groups, which were set up to test doctors on their knowledge before issuing them a liscence(sp)? Could they have created these groups to protect themselves from the lawsuits which happen when a person with very little knowledge poses as a doctor and harms others? (If I recall the liscencing of Doctors was a voluntary act done by doctors to stop Quacks which were ruining their bad name.)

You talk about limiting the amount of healthcare available. Could this in part be a response to the amount of lawsuits? Do you honestly know how much a doctor pays in Malpractice Insurance these days? Do you realise how many doctors have left the field because of fearsof lawsuits? We recently had a lawsuit here because a couple, both with a genetic disease, (Sickle Cell Anemia,) had a baby. That baby was diagnosed with the same disease as the parents. They sued the OB-GYN because the baby now must go through the pain and suffering they go through. Even though both of them knew the risks and decided to carry the baby to term.

Maybe, oh great Amicus, the problems with Health Care among other things in the United States is the fault of our Litiginouse Society. Dare I bring up other cases? Two high profile ones come to mind. The lady who sued McDonalds because she burned herself with her cup of coffee. Most people missed the fact she had opened the cup while holding it between her legs and driving so she could add Cream and Sugar. Also people did not hear that she hadn't ordered Iced Coffee. Instead they only heard she had ordered a cup of coffee, and burned her legs. Second is the ongoing lawsuit against McDonalds by the obese man in New York City. He claims that he is obese because McDonalds claimed some of it's foods were healthier than others so he ate there all the time.

Another case. The wife of the teacher Lionel Tate shot and killed has sued the makers, as well as the sellers of the handgun used in the murder. Hello, thew gun didn't up and fire itself at the teacher. Lionel Tate himself said he had gone home and retrieved the gun he had stolen from a neighbor with the intention of intimidating the teacher. The security tapes clearly showed Mr. tate, (Clearly a victim in this sad tale by his mother and Mr. Grunows wife,) point the gun at his teacher, lower it and rack the slide chambering a round, then again pointing it at the teacher. Did he engage the safety? Did he care to? These questions never came to mind now did they? Oh yeah, his mother testified that he did not know the effects of a fired round, yet she forgot to mention that he had hunted with his relatives for several years. She, (a police officer,) never mentioned the first rule of fire arms safety. Never point a weapon at something unless you intend to fire.

Another note about the medical profession. Have you ever worked with anyone in that fiield? Somehow I don't think so. If you had you would realise the selfless dedication to their patients these people exhibit on a daily basis. Have you worked 48 or 72 hours caring for people as did one of our other members here during the recent storm? ave you left the comfort of your warm bed to help a patient in need, suffering from chest pains in the middle of the night, only to find those pains were from HeartBurn, and have been happy that it was only an overdose of pizza? Have you ever stopped at a vehicle accident, saved the life of someone with terrible injuries, only to be sued by them later because they lost a limb rather than their life? Have you ever struggled to keep a person alive, prescribing medications and treatments you knew they couldn't pay for but willing to do so to keep them alive, and have them die? Then have their family castrate you in the news because they didn't think you had done enough? Have you been the administrator of a hospital which has to eat millions of dollars of loss because of people with no insurance, then have their family members try to sue you? Do you wonder Mr. Amicus? Do you ever wonder why people would ever get into healthcare knowing this is happening? And yet, somehow, for some reason there are people out there willing to go through this.

If you wish to attack someone Mr. Amicus, attack those responsible for what is going on. Attack the insurance providers who aren't willing to provide the help which is needed. Attack the Lawyers who are out there wanting people to sue so they can earn a buck, and lastly attack those poor souls out there who are upset that no matter what those in the health care field can do, sometimes people do die.

Off my soap box. Maybe it's time for a couple of more movies.

SeaCat

 

[Jagged]

Guys as much as I know you all hate the current administration for reasons I may not agree with but respect. Calling the Republicans Nazis is moronic. First they were socialists (like what the Democrats are working towards.) Second even in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich people knew they weren't conservatives....they knew they were crazy. Pity not enough people realized that fact.

I have talked to many peole thay have immigrated to this country from really repressive regimes. They love it here and think people have no idea what it is like to be repressed.

Come on guys get real. NO American President including Bush can be compared to Hitler and his crew. You have no idea what evil really is in the world. You don't like the system? I hate to tell you that you can still change it...vote in November if you feel it is so bad. Stop acting like fools and find solutions to the problems of the day as you see fit. I hate the President won't fly on election day.

I want four more years but not because Kerry is a snob or boring. I don't think the Democrats will found a new USSR I just don't like their plans. Get your heads clear.....

 

[amicus]

Seacat....glad you got all that off your chest...I hope you feel better now....

Yes I am familiar with heathcare, I nursed my mother through five heart attacks over a four year period. I worked in a hospital as a security guard for a while and learned much of the inner workings. My daughter is a health care professional, a Captain in the Air Force...

I am aware of nusiance suits and I am not nearly as cold and heartless as you seem to think.

I would ask you to do a brief study of the old Guild system in Europe, the forerunners of modern trade unions. They limit entry into each trade so as to control the market and keep prices high

The stringent laws supposedly to protect the public from charlatans and snake oil doctors may be taken for only that if you wish to believe it.

The Medical profession does not readily admit to controlling the number of doctors or by lobbying for laws protecting the profession and limiting those who can treat patients.

To become a medical doctor, is to me, one of the finest aspirations one can achieve. It has proceeded from the dim prehistorical days of witchdoctors and shamans along a path guided by science and reason. Although that progress was made grudgingly as a reading of Louis Pasteur and many others will attest.

While I admire and respect the profession, it is in my eyes, not above the nature of a guild, an association of like professionals who have gained status and desire to maintain it by exclusion and by tenure in the field.

I maintain that if the market were permitted to function freely, with minimal control and restriction that many, like many military personel who offer specific areas of treatment, that there would be much more minor level, clinical facilities offering services that do not require a full fledged doctor of medicine.

It would be nice if some physician reading this forum might weigh in and at least confront this concept in a rational manner.

One of my daughters recently had a child delivered by a mid-wife outside a hospital environment. I was very uneasy with the situation as it was religiously motivated. However, all turned out well, with a healthy mother and child.

It is my personal opinion that a large percentage of medical treatment paid for by insurance is mostly unneeded and cosmetic but nonetheless occupies the time of medical professionals and raises the cost of treatment in general.

Not that I would compare the two fields of endeavor, but a Union welder drawing $38.00 an hour does the same work as a non Union welder who is paid $12.00 an hour. Same job, same quality work, Union versus non Union.

Guilds equal Unions equal American Medical Association...AMA, CIO, AFofL Brotherhood of whatever...

That should be sufficient to set up the typical wailing and whining from the usual suspects....


amicus...

 

[Xelebes]

[B

I personally read all your stories in the 'Death by Fucking' series that morphed into the 'E-kids' stories, gave you a 5 vote on most everyone...or refrained from voting at all. But, I stopped reading your stories when they went blatantly political

You are quite welcome, in this country, to your political viewpoint, whatever it may be, but like the religious right, when you present your viewpoint in such a way as to demean all other points of view and when you present those views with religious certainty, as if the rest of the world of thought was beneath consideration, it is no longer a pleasure to read.

[/B]

Point for Amicus. However, the rest of the post becomes a bit... tiring. Redundant hyperboles galore.

 

[Weird Harold]

Calling the Republicans Nazis is moronic. First they were socialists (like what the Democrats are working towards.)

This assertion hurts your credibility as an informed poster.

The Nazis were FASCISTS and #3 on their hate list -- after jews and gypsies -- were socialists (including communists.)

 

[thebullet]

Jagged:
To affirm what Weird Harold said:
Yes, the Nazis called themselves National Socialists
hense the term Nazi

That label was kind of like Compasionate Conservative

In other words, it didn't mean shit

 

[Just-Legal]

Why am I not surprised Amicus didn't deign to respond to me?

Lord, I might actually have made someone's ignore list?

Helen -- pissy

 

[amicus]

Just Legal said:

"Amicus - You say the UK failed. In some respects, you're right, we have failed. Look at the waiting lists. *sigh*

HOWEVER!

At least everyone is GUARANTEED treatment AT POINT OF NEED. You don't run the risk of not being treated because you can't afford it, which is, as far as I have been informed, one of the problems in the US. All medicines are at a set price, and if you are on income support, under 18 or elderly, you don't even pay that.

The top-up system seems, at the moment, to be the way to go. It covers basic treatments and waiting lists, and if you want to go private, you pay a "top up fee".

I'm sorry, but I'd rather be taxed a little bit more and know that if I ever lost my job I could still guarantee being able to get treated than get paid a little more and have to worry about health insurance.

Helen -- tired and probably not making sense.

Edited to add: Relax licensing? Are you MAD?! Yes, strict licensing means there is less supply than demand, but at least I know my doctor or medicine isn't going to KILL me! (okay, maybe not so much with the medicine but we won't go there because that's a whoooole nother issue)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

You are not being ignored dear Just Legal....but I thought in my response to thebullet...and others...that I addressed your questions...

Last first....licensing.....possessing a piece of paper sold by government does not necessarily guarantee that the person who bought that piece of paper and fulfilled the requirements to possess that paper(license) is qualified to perform the actions permitted by the license....

Even with licensing there are 'bad' doctors out there, incompetent ones, shoddy ones who leave surgical instruments within body cavities...make other terrible and sometimes fatal mistakes in diagnosis, treatment prescriptions and follow up.

You, like many, seem to wish to place your trust in a beady eyed little bureaucrat rather than make your own determination as to the quality of service you receive from another human being.

There should be standards of course but I am not convinced that 'government' is the agency that should set those standards.

It has always been difficult and seems to become more so as time goes by, to communicate the concept of freedom to people who have never experienced it and never even really considered it.

I regularly talk with several over there in Limey land and I am appalled at some of the things you folks accept as 'normal'. For one thing, young people trying to find acceptable housing, even an apartment, may have to wait years before they can leave their parents home.

Housing shortages...why? There are no housing shortages in America...the free market place provides what the public demands. It is my understanding that housing in Britain is in some way controlled by your government...is that true?


Ahh...I must leave.....perhaps we can continue later...


amicus...





__________________







http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/memberpage.php?uid=261558&page=submissions

 

[SeaCat]

Seacat....glad you got all that off your chest...I hope you feel better now....

Yes I am familiar with heathcare, I nursed my mother through five heart attacks over a four year period. I worked in a hospital as a security guard for a while and learned much of the inner workings. My daughter is a health care professional, a Captain in the Air Force...

I am aware of nusiance suits and I am not nearly as cold and heartless as you seem to think.

I would ask you to do a brief study of the old Guild system in Europe, the forerunners of modern trade unions. They limit entry into each trade so as to control the market and keep prices high

The stringent laws supposedly to protect the public from charlatans and snake oil doctors may be taken for only that if you wish to believe it.

The Medical profession does not readily admit to controlling the number of doctors or by lobbying for laws protecting the profession and limiting those who can treat patients.

To become a medical doctor, is to me, one of the finest aspirations one can achieve. It has proceeded from the dim prehistorical days of witchdoctors and shamans along a path guided by science and reason. Although that progress was made grudgingly as a reading of Louis Pasteur and many others will attest.

While I admire and respect the profession, it is in my eyes, not above the nature of a guild, an association of like professionals who have gained status and desire to maintain it by exclusion and by tenure in the field.

I maintain that if the market were permitted to function freely, with minimal control and restriction that many, like many military personel who offer specific areas of treatment, that there would be much more minor level, clinical facilities offering services that do not require a full fledged doctor of medicine.

It would be nice if some physician reading this forum might weigh in and at least confront this concept in a rational manner.

One of my daughters recently had a child delivered by a mid-wife outside a hospital environment. I was very uneasy with the situation as it was religiously motivated. However, all turned out well, with a healthy mother and child.

It is my personal opinion that a large percentage of medical treatment paid for by insurance is mostly unneeded and cosmetic but nonetheless occupies the time of medical professionals and raises the cost of treatment in general.

Not that I would compare the two fields of endeavor, but a Union welder drawing $38.00 an hour does the same work as a non Union welder who is paid $12.00 an hour. Same job, same quality work, Union versus non Union.

Guilds equal Unions equal American Medical Association...AMA, CIO, AFofL Brotherhood of whatever...

That should be sufficient to set up the typical wailing and whining from the usual suspects....


amicus...

Amicus,

It may surprise you that many in the medical field, not just myself, (A lowly Aide or Orderly if you will, with too much knowledge for my position.) agree with you in some respects.

Yes there are shoddy incompetent Doctors, just as there are shoddy incompetent mechanics.

Yes I know about unions and their for runners. I have had the misfortune of belonging to several of them.

Although I wouldn't want to be a Doctor in this day and age, with the problems they face, I heartily support them even on the odd occasion when I disagree with them.

Those things ordered you say are un needed and cosmetic, well many of the doctors would agree with you. They feel compelled to order extra tests and procedures by the litiginouse society we live in. It has been all to often where I have seen a doctor order a test or procedure, often uncomfortable or downright painful to the patient because that doctor knew if they didn't it would come up in a lawsuit.
For example, several years ago a doctor was sued in NYC because he didn't order An MRI of a female patient who came in suffering from gunshot wounds to the abdomen. From the location of the wounds he decided, using many years of experience, that her unborn baby was no longer viable. He instead treated her and aborted the fetus. It didn't matter that the fetus had been struck several times by bullets. This lady and her husband sued him, and won because he hadn't used every means available to save the baby. (It would have been 60+ days premature.) he saved the mother who went on to have several more children. He was sued and lost because he didn't risk the mothers life by having more tests done when he had decided that her unborn child was no longer viable, using, as I said, many years of experience in the Trauma Field. Unfortunately this is all too cammon.

I recently had a doctor here in south Florida place a patient on a very debilitating Chemo Therapy, knowing full well it wouldn't prolong their life. Why did they do this, and put this patient through the suffereing they went through before dying? Because the doctor was afraid of being sued by a family who just didn't want to realize that their family member was one of those who couldn't be saved. (Stage four Mestatic Breast Cancer.) The patient suffered, the doctor suffered knowing the hell he had put herthrough, and the family had to deal with their loss as well as watching their mother suffer. All because of the fear of lawsuits.

If we could get people to realize there are no miracle cures, and that sueing because they can, in the hopes ofprofiting off the loss of a loved one is wrong, then medicine would become much more civilised as well as much better. The blame does not rest on the doctors, but on our society.

As for the other ills of our American Society, look not at other people, but at yourself. It is not the people of the world who vote in the idiots in the White House, it is us. (Yes I include myself in this.) Our government was created to be "By the people and for the People," we have just lost interest and instead of controlling our government have let the government control us.

SeaCat.