another dead poet/writer?

[My Erotic Tale]

I know this topics touchy and I'll try and keep it
intelligent, let me get my alphabet cereal first <grin>

I recieved an E-mail that had a critics comments
on anothers creation ...the usual ... puntuaction
was inproper type comment ... and a little indepth
remark trying to analysis a person from their literary Art?

I use a grammar tool this person uses a spell check
tool and its not enough, stalking critics, I still get
the grammar police telling me my puntuation is wrong
how do you fix that? now lately I've gotten better
I use a new tool and less grammer comments are being left
but check this out ... is this extreme?

an IM ...
HERE IT IS:

Anon: (critics name here) is bugging me.
LiteraryArt69: oh?
LiteraryArt69: auntie muse ?
Anon: no who's that? may I send his last observations of me?
LiteraryArt69: sure, a critic that is the opposite of a muse, my ying yang!
Anon: I'm tired of his writing me without identifying himself. Using all types of names.
Anon: Did you get it?
Anon: I've gotten feedback from three different men. Now I'm not sure if they are all not (critics name here).
LiteraryArt69: WELL THAT WASNT BAD
LiteraryArt69: WASNT GREAT EITHER
LiteraryArt69: BUT SINCER i BELIEVE, STERN MAYBE OVERBEARING OKAY THEIR BEING MEAN <grin>
Anon: I don't want his opinions.
Anon: I'm finished as a writer.
LiteraryArt69: what????
Anon: I'm done.
LiteraryArt69: can I post this conversation in a thread....
Anon: I tried to write with all this puncuation. It slows me down. It takes the momentum away. The flow is stopped.
Anon: What conversation?
LiteraryArt69: stopped . its a creation it has to be polished and gone over several times I had to learn that
Anon: Not my style. I don't want polish.
Anon: I want passion, fever, obsession..
LiteraryArt69: I'm tired of loosing writers you'll be the third I can think of wait 4th off the top of my head who gave up writing because of critics and criticism.
Anon: Fire
LiteraryArt69: light a match <grin>
Anon: What's the point?
Anon: Somebody else touch my work it's not mine.
LiteraryArt69: dont let others breath no wait typed words get ya down ...
Anon: Whatever I write will not be enjoyed it's open season now.
LiteraryArt69: they said you were a poet? about your story!
LiteraryArt69: lol
LiteraryArt69: you have to go back to writing for you, not for the feed back.
Anon: It's for me. I am human turning my cheek shouldn't have to be part of it.
LiteraryArt69: if you write for the croitics well its gonna get slimed, just delete clean house and write cause ya love it, I do ...and budda knows I have had my share of the grammar police
Anon: You don't understand Art.
Anon: I LOVE MY STYLE NOBODY WRITES LIKE ME. I WILL NOT BE CLEANED UP.
LiteraryArt69: ok
Anon: i'm sorry.
Anon: i am frustrated.
LiteraryArt69: I see that critics do that...funny though..the good writers dont critic bad only the bad writers like my self <grin>
LiteraryArt69: can I post this IM excerpt the name
Anon: i'm trying to write this new story and its so grindingly slow i've lost the desire to finish the (story/poem name here).
Anon: Name?
LiteraryArt69: no way that was a good story idea
LiteraryArt69: your name removed but I want to start a thread on this topic and here you drop this in my lap <grin>
Anon: why is (critics name here) hounding me?
Anon: What if the artist that places nose's upside down was bugged to be conventional. He wouldn't be who he is.
Anon: showing me what an editor can do?
LiteraryArt69: well editors are nice I had some great ones, but timing is everything, they seem to keep your work awhile and fiddle with it and it helps sometimes and others its a destruction of what you were trying to imply
Anon: So you are telling me to get with the flow?
LiteraryArt69: dont let others opinions change yours.
LiteraryArt69: you got to stand for something or you';ll fall for anything
LiteraryArt69: yes
Anon: I should be editted?
LiteraryArt69: do you use spell check or someother editing device?
Anon: Yes I do.
Anon: Word perfect.
LiteraryArt69: thats should be sufice
LiteraryArt69: wish I had one...
Anon: Well apparently it isn't.
LiteraryArt69: I got a grammar tool and it wont work on this computer but it will my other which wont get online but a floppy exchange and edit then back to this computer to post its an added effort but keeps the grammar police down abit except auntie muse who finds faults with everthing any way hince the name I suspect
Anon: I lose creativity as comma's, periods and other things come into play.
Anon: It did all the spelling, punctuation, comma's and correct usage of words.
Anon: Writing has become unfun [I know it's not a word] But it's an emotion.
LiteraryArt69: I want to do whats right but short of going back to school or I even read all the tips offered in grammar on Literoticas site page for how to :
Anon: Well then you do that.
LiteraryArt69: yea well I did it didn't ease the critics I thought I learned the correct way to put a ' after it's, it, it is then I get told it's the other way than the lit how to says ???
Anon: I'm finished.
LiteraryArt69: now I write it next day re read it and make excepted changes and next day read again and always seem, to catch something I feel I could edit it forever so thats when it hit me these critics are editing forever
Anon: Lit is supposed to be for freedom of speech. I guess as long as it is properly done, only.
Anon: I'm proud of you for striving for the best.
LiteraryArt69: well people have to try and teach others makes themself more important, they feel like sack said greater looking down on lesser, just have compassion for ignorance with this type mentality, a dog barks can't bark back to stop them <grin>
Anon: I thought you would understand my style but I see you don't.
Anon: It's not done out of laziness of the language. It's done....nevermind it doesn't matter any longer.
Anon: You take care of that headache, Art.
Anon: I'll back you <hug>
Anon: I always have.
LiteraryArt69: well I understand the creative write
Anon: You have a great creative mind. Feed it Art.
LiteraryArt69: the spur of the moment to write with the wind while it is thought but then re read and check overs is a job....not exactly the enjoyable part
LiteraryArt69: but the finishing touch like laquor
Anon: You have outgrown me now.
LiteraryArt69: no way your the witty word wizard a Doctor, intellegent, and a damn good writer you got more college than most here at lit and they critic you so? thats sad!
Anon: Keep me up on your writing, okay?
Anon: I have some work to do I will let you get back to your writing.
LiteraryArt69: oh hunni
LiteraryArt69: reviews poem reviews
LiteraryArt69: you are one of the best writers I know and you aint gonna let a snob remark stop your creative passion?
Anon: you get better I will be fine.
LiteraryArt69: im fine
LiteraryArt69: you need to be mused not auntie mused <grin>
Anon: I want (critic) to quit bothering me. I want to write and be free to enjoy the process. Not be corrected and dissected.
Anon: Let him comment on the comment area. Just leave me alone!
Anon: I don't know why I am telling you this. You can't do anything to stop him.
Anon: <hug>
Anon: You my friend?
LiteraryArt69: you want good comments though right?
Anon: I don't care about bad one's I am just saying that leave comments on my work. Don't keep tracking me down in different id's and pounding me with help.
LiteraryArt69: well did you PM them?
LiteraryArt69: thanking them for the indepth look at your work and sorry you didn't meet their expectations ...lol
LiteraryArt69: seems like they would have stopped some where down the line and said hey I am disecting an individual here?
Anon: Art I'm serious I feel stalked by this man. I'm ready to leave Lit because of his interference.
Anon: Now he has my AOL name.
Anon: By sending me feedback by other names.
LiteraryArt69: from lit, he got your e mail from lit?
Anon: No he wrote me a nice newsy like feedback using I suppose another id. I didn't realize it was the same man. So when i answered i hit send and (an alternate critic responed) wrote me this reply. their the same person, I don't think they realized they responded under another name.
Anon: I'm so confused of who (critic) is.
Anon: i just know he knows to much about me and under the whole idea of helping me find my writing style.
Anon: I haven't asked for any of this help.
Anon: (the list of critics) i don't know who are these men?
LiteraryArt69: well their people who feel a need to change you?...lol Looks like you've been sacked!
Anon: can you be serious? lol
LiteraryArt69: yes I know your upset, they wrote ya a feedback about reading all your works and how they think you are as a person ...is absurd
Anon: (a person) stalked me I'm not needing this stalking from another man or men.
LiteraryArt69: no I know youve had way to much thrown at you this last two months you need to write and release your feelings, poetry is a good way the sensi says
Anon: I'm trying to keep humor in this but I'm losing that.
LiteraryArt69: well treat them like children who voice their opinions its just words sweetie now stalking or haunting you work is another story and you know... Ive had those type critics you have to out wit the fox to save your chickens
LiteraryArt69: lol
Anon: so can you and i IM write to one another without needing a dictionary and thesaurus? i will feel better if we can be
us like in the beginning, okay?
LiteraryArt69: put your creative, branaby jones mind at work to turn it around, no wait you would be quincy <grin>
Anon: I liked that show.
LiteraryArt69: I aint used a dictionary on ya in a awhile youve been kind and not used those BIG SCAREY WORDS ...<laughin>
Anon: i don't need to use them.
Anon: i got my favorite 1000 or more.
LiteraryArt69: I don't know how <smile>
LiteraryArt69: do ya ask the question or open the book first...there is no keyboard attached
Anon: Ok baby i feel better wish you did. <hug>
LiteraryArt69: I feel better need to eat I think...
Anon: My last email to (said critic) told him to "Leave me alone quit making me his pet project! Don't write to me again!" think he might stop?

LiteraryArt69: well thats all you can do ...and see what happens, they use several screen names so they cant be pin pointed, like trolls and anonamous
Anon: So it's okay he stalks me?
LiteraryArt69: but if it come down to it and you have to write laurel and manu and they can pin point the origin of the stalk and perhaps silence the wolves
LiteraryArt69: no
Anon: (screen name person) doing what she did. It makes me nervous (critic) could get crazy.
LiteraryArt69: I will verbally attack those that do that like (screen name person) and that other thread, you seen the tiger roar....<laughing my ass off>
Anon: lol
LiteraryArt69: well keep me posted I stand in front of ya not behind.
Anon: ok
Anon: go eat
LiteraryArt69: made ya smile huh?
Anon: Yes
LiteraryArt69: RRROOOOOAAARRRRRR
Anon: <grin>
Anon: I adore you
LiteraryArt69: THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YA MESS WITH A FRIEND OF MINE <GRIN>
Anon: Go eat
Anon: I think I am.
LiteraryArt69: I have no enemies only challenges
LiteraryArt69: okay bye...hug
Anon: bye.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

any suggestions?
we lost ladyshianne the same way ...
we lost templeminded the same way ...
we lost Elizabetht
joseki ko
and the list goes on ...

will another poet die?

I probably hold the record for grammar corrections
on comments <grinin'> they don't bother me
they help me... but feedbacks and analysis of others?

we can't be responsible for peoples feelings
but perhaps an open thread about this topic may
shine the light needed to save another poet from
a writing death from the stabbing hand of a critic,

I'm going out on a limb here and asking from the more
learned or more experienced literoticans what to do
about these overbearing critics, as you and I know
that self asteem and insecurities are a trait thats
like the sheep and the wolves (ana's thread ) <grin>

freedom of speech and expression are important till
they become a thorn or persistant in their constant
bombardment, I found out this critic doesnt touch my
writes so it's either an infactuation for female or
they know this persons skin layer is thin ...
either way this has happened many times
and will happen many more Im sure and unsure
of how many left Lit with out saying this much.

I leave comments and got bombarded by critics
who critic my comments ...geeez ....

this is the part of the SOUP of writers that
gets bitter.

signed: open ears open heart clinched fist (on mouse)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Art, you know what I think about this from other threads already.

Your friend isn't interested in critical comments of any kind, and writes only for him or herself. All he or she has to do is disable feedback...

 

[Angeline]

This is sad, Art. I feel sad when people think they need to leave because they're being criticized.

But they need to understand it's just someone else's opinion. If William Shakespeare came back from the dead and came to Lit--hey, he was a bawdy guy, it's plausible--and said "you're doing it all wrong Ange," and I disagreed, I'd keep doing my thing.

People who check the public comments box or allow feedback when they submit must learn not to be so thin-skinned. If there's a show on tv you don't want to watch, you change the channel right?

And I have to say that one of the people on your list came here and bitched everyone out before leaving. Why so defensive? Just say thanks but I don't wanna. Done.

I must say this about punctuation. There are great poets who write without it. They format lines in ways that meaning is clear without needing it. When I used to edit for a website, some bigwig said I needed to come up with a formula for number of commas per screen, lol. I said that is preposterous--you either need a comma or you don't. It um depends on the words.

Grammar tools suck. I've never seen one that helps--they screw things up. If you don't want to use punctuation, don't. If you post poems and get negative comments that you don't want to follow, don't. Do your thing, but if you do have a question about punctuation ask me. I know from commas.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

This is sad, Art. I feel sad when people think they need to leave because they're being criticized.

But they need to understand it's just someone else's opinion. If William Shakespeare came back from the dead and came to Lit--hey, he was a bawdy guy, it's plausible--and said "you're doing it all wrong Ange," and I disagreed, I'd keep doing my thing.

People who check the public comments box or allow feedback when they submit must learn not to be so thin-skinned. If there's a show on tv you don't want to watch, you change the channel right?

And I have to say that one of the people on your list came here and bitched everyone out before leaving. Why so defensive? Just say thanks but I don't wanna. Done.

I must say this about punctuation. There are great poets who write without it. They format lines in ways that meaning is clear without needing it. When I used to edit for a website, some bigwig said I needed to come up with a formula for number of commas per screen, lol. I said that is preposterous--you either need a comma or you don't. It um depends on the words.

Grammar tools suck. I've never seen one that helps--they screw things up. If you don't want to use punctuation, don't. If you post poems and get negative comments that you don't want to follow, don't. Do your thing, but if you do have a question about punctuation ask me. I know from commas.

okay cool beens~

whats with the (it's and its) I thought I GOT it
but apparently I didn't ...

and lauren I know this topic is like major over done
but when I have my morning pep talk with people
who want to leave lit for what ever reason it's time
to address it. not fight about it, this is a reacuring
situation for me perhaps because I am the sympothetic
ear and shoulder but like the issue states I write
way more than this person and I don't get this type
of feedback either, of course I'm not female which
I think covers the stalking part? maybe....

what about the multiple screen names did you read
the whole thing? its like a troll only they leave their name!
and still badger the helpless or timid or meek,

so toughen up huh?

 

[Angeline]

Art dear,

its=possessive (its house, its reservations)

it's= it is (it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

what about the multiple screen names did you read
the whole thing? its like a troll only they leave their name!
and still badger the helpless or timid or meek,

so toughen up huh?

Yes, I read the whole thing.

You're probably more aware of the male psyche than me, but multiple poetry critiques doesn't strike me as a primary tool for stalking.

She doesn't have to toughen up. She writes for herself and that's a perfectly valid approach. She doesn't want to edit her poems, that's her prorrogative. But in that case, she should just disable public comments, disable or delete feedback without reading, and block whoever contacts her in AIM...

 

[Liar]

Here's a little part that I felt obliged to comment on:

Anon: Let him comment on the comment area. Just leave me alone!

Sometimes in the past when I have tried to leave constructive critisism in a public comment, I have gotten angry replies via PMs and mail saying things like "Why didn't mail me about this instead of smearing my name in public?!".

Anyone who knows me knows that smearing names ain't my business. All I did those tijmes twas say that I liked their poems BUT that they maybe should look over their line breaks, or something similar.

But my point was this: A feedbacker is damned if he's a critic in public, and according to your friend, might be equally damned if doing it privately. Sigh, it's not easy to contribute to the community as a critic. Whatever one do, one does wrong and gets branded as a meanie or a troll.

--------

But that has not much to do with your friend, (merely a parenthesis reflection) so let's address that instead.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the last witch-hunt for an honest critic that went down here. I'm sure we all have hearned from that experience, and are not jumping to premature, conspiratorial conclusions. Right? If what you precieve as malice is just a misunderstanding, or if you are mistaken about some ID belonging to this mysterious person, starting a crusade about it might cause just as much hurt. I understand that you only are trying to help a friend, but please tread carefully.

If she is being stalked by one individual...actually singled out and harassed I mean, if she have repeadetly and personally asked this person (A Lit member, it seems) to not contact her, and still gets unwanted messages, report it to Laurel immediately. Feedback mail sent via Lit can be IP blocked and so can (I think) forum and PM access.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

IT'S nice to know thanks ang~

and Lauren I knew this would be a topic
of needing to toughen up the skin,
the sheep and the wolf, the mouse and the hawk

but what about the multiple name, the intent
on reading a certain reader to belittle their
work or life style. it all rests on freedom of
write speech and actions till it upsets another
and yes I see alot of upset people here for
various reason and yea critics seem to be the
top of the list,

I hope that now that this is exposed this
person or persons or multiple personality
person will subside knowing the truth is
in write here. we will see I was hopeing
for a better solution than these already
obvious ones...just have to except them!

 

[Liar]

what about the multiple screen names did you read
the whole thing? its like a troll only they leave their name!
and still badger the helpless or timid or meek,

I read the chatlog there, and from that, all I can say is that it seems that two ID's might belong to the same person. You talk about a whole group of apparently male poetry readers with Lit ID's all connected to the same individual with the sole purpose to harass your friend? That's some grave accusation, is all I'm saying.

I would want much more info than what I've read here before jumping to any such conclusions.

Of course she (whoever she is) has the right to write however she wants to, and if someone is harassing her because of it that's not right, and should be stopped. No writer or poet should ever feel forced to leave the community.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

hey thanks Liar~

good idea, I mentioned this and it's like
going to the teacher 'JONNY'S' being mean
but hey if it stops the irritating feedbacks
whats to keep them from getting another name
this critic has two names Im sure of and the way
it's unfolding may have many more. I get
comments from a auntie muse ...I comment
alot and I never see this name else where
maye once, I find it curious but I delete that
post and go on, I knoiw insecurities play a part
here with out revealing the problems this
person has had already compounds the
emotions too, so yeah it's a touchy topic in
many ways so I started the thread off carefully
I'm not on a witch hunt this time <grin>
I was hopeing for an intellegent answer
<honestly> I posted the comment with very
little clips of personal info to keep it
true but not pointing a finger.

I appreciate the replies and will pass on
the fact blocking IP's would be a start.

thanks again

Here's a little part that I felt obliged to comment on:
Sometimes in the past when I have tried to leave constructive critisism in a public comment, I have gotten angry replies via PMs and mail saying things like "Why didn't mail me about this instead of smearing my name in public?!".

Anyone who knows me knows that smearing names ain't my business. All I did those tijmes twas say that I liked their poems BUT that they maybe should look over their line breaks, or something similar.

But my point was this: A feedbacker is damned if he's a critic in public, and according to your friend, might be equally damned if doing it privately. Sigh, it's not easy to contribute to the community as a critic. Whatever one do, one does wrong and gets branded as a meanie or a troll.

--------

But that has not much to do with your friend, (merely a parenthesis reflection) so let's address that instead.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the last witch-hunt for an honest critic that went down here. I'm sure we all have hearned from that experience, and are not jumping to premature, conspiratorial conclusions. Right? If what you precieve as malice is just a misunderstanding, or if you are mistaken about some ID belonging to this mysterious person, starting a crusade about it might cause just as much hurt. I understand that you only are trying to help a friend, but please tread carefully.

If she is being stalked by one individual...actually singled out and harassed I mean, if she have repeadetly and personally asked this person (A Lit member, it seems) to not contact her, and still gets unwanted messages, report it to Laurel immediately. Feedback mail sent via Lit can be IP blocked and so can (I think) forum and PM access.

 

[annaswirls]

some advice

going to get something....

 

[My Erotic Tale]

THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT >>>>>>>>

Thanks Liar I wrote all this down and you say it
best in such a short verse, dang I gotta lot
to learn <grin>

we are all prone to the need for positive
feedback to make us feel better about our work
the balance is the negative, but there is a line
that is drawn that calls it extreme, I don't
know that that';s what is here, But I fear
it could be, and that aint cool!

I read the chatlog there, and from that, all I can say is that it seems that two ID's might belong to the same person. You talk about a whole group of apparently male poetry readers with Lit ID's all connected to the same individual with the sole purpose to harass your friend? That's some grave accusation, is all I'm saying.

I would want much more info than what I've read here before jumping to any such conclusions.

Of course she (whoever she is) has the right to write however she wants to, and if someone is harassing her because of it that's not right, and should be stopped. No writer or poet should ever feel forced to leave the community.

 

[annaswirls]

isn't there an ignore function?

just delete and move on

the only thing you can really control is yourself

when you put yourself in a public forum, stuff like this is going to happen


when you live in a society with free speach, this crap is the price you pay.

it is a pity. but I think it is, unavoidable in many ways.

 

[Liar]

THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT >>>>>>>>

You mean I got the point? There's a first time for everything, I guess.

 

[*Catbabe*]

No one makes you feel bad without your consent. (a quote from someone wiser than Cat)

No one makes you stop writing unless they tie you up. (directly from the Cat)

 

[Tathagata]

No one makes you feel bad without your consent. (a quote from someone wiser than Cat)

No one makes you stop writing unless they tie you up. (directly from the Cat)

You want me to tie you up don't you??
You naughty little poet you...

 

[My Erotic Tale]

update

No one makes you feel bad without your consent. (a quote from someone wiser than Cat)

No one makes you stop writing unless they tie you up. (directly from the Cat)

hehehe I like that~ alot~

okay update,

got a letter to lit to block IP
got her to find and ignore said persons
and hopefully this will slow down the comments
and the chess moves seem to please anon ~

thanks guys/gals ya'll were a big help...honest

 

[annaswirls]

okay I went through and read the whole conversations-- you are a good friend Art.

I really hope that your friend will accept that editing your work can often make it MORE yours, as it sometimes takes others eyes to see where what you thought was clear, isn't.


Adding punctuation and changing line breaks is not taking the ownership away.



My Favorite part of writing is passioning it out.


Maybe that would be a better avenue for your friend.

No one will correct ANYTHING and should not ever do so on the passion thread, that is what it is all about. Writing, NO EDITING allowed---


Sometimes I take the passion stuff, usually weeks or a month later, and turn it into a "real" poem. Often times I want it to remain how it was born, as a free flow of life, with its blemishes, this is what makes the passion poems, to me, beautiful. Unique. But that is where they belong. In my opinion.

I used to type poems right into the submission window. Without spell check or anything. It was exciting. Like sex without a condom.

But it was also embarassing when I made obvious spelling errors, etc.


So, passion it out, but my advice, if you are going to submit your work for publication, then it changes everything.

Published work should be looked over by someone. Usually just the writer. it is disrespectful to the reader to throw things out there with a lot of UNINTENTIONAL mistakes (I learned this difference from Liar)


if you want to mis-spell or mis-punctuate to send a message, then it is all good.

My thoughts, if you do not want to edit, put your poetry in a place where this is welcomed.

I have a person who regularly edits my work without my asking. I take it as a compliment. They think I can do more, and they are right and sometimes, often times they are not right and I do not pay attention to the suggestions, without apology. It is mine.

She is right about that.



I hope it all works out.

When people leave because of a critic it is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

or another cliche.

it is only hurting themselves.

okay I am going to go passion something.

You are a good friend, Art, she is lucky to have you.

I hope everyone has someone they can whimper to, I know there are many times I need to whimper about things that happen surrounding my poetry. We all do.

Good luck!

 

[annaswirls]

just wanted to add to keep things in perspective.

this site has lost MANY MANY more honest critics than good poets.

and that is the honest truth.


(as opposed to dishonest truth? what would that be? and honest lies?)


at any rate, there was a time when there were many people who read all the new poems every day and commented.

The issue is that some people are here to show their heart and soul to anyone who clicks on their title, and some people are here because they want to be writers. It is hard to know which is which. Of course, there are people who are both

Some people want to encourage others with praise, some want to help us become better writers. any means necessary.

we only know so much about each other, so we generally guess--

what is a compliment to one person is an insult to another
what is an intrusion to one person may be welcome to another,

just have to do what seems right

 

[My Erotic Tale]

thanks ana

okay I went through and read the whole conversations-- you are a good friend Art.

I really hope that your friend will accept that editing your work can often make it MORE yours, as it sometimes takes others eyes to see where what you thought was clear, isn't.


Adding punctuation and changing line breaks is not taking the ownership away.



My Favorite part of writing is passioning it out.


Maybe that would be a better avenue for your friend.

No one will correct ANYTHING and should not ever do so on the passion thread, that is what it is all about. Writing, NO EDITING allowed---


Sometimes I take the passion stuff, usually weeks or a month later, and turn it into a "real" poem. Often times I want it to remain how it was born, as a free flow of life, with its blemishes, this is what makes the passion poems, to me, beautiful. Unique. But that is where they belong. In my opinion.

I used to type poems right into the submission window. Without spell check or anything. It was exciting. Like sex without a condom.

But it was also embarassing when I made obvious spelling errors, etc.


So, passion it out, but my advice, if you are going to submit your work for publication, then it changes everything.

Published work should be looked over by someone. Usually just the writer. it is disrespectful to the reader to throw things out there with a lot of UNINTENTIONAL mistakes (I learned this difference from Liar)


if you want to mis-spell or mis-punctuate to send a message, then it is all good.

My thoughts, if you do not want to edit, put your poetry in a place where this is welcomed.

I have a person who regularly edits my work without my asking. I take it as a compliment. They think I can do more, and they are right and sometimes, often times they are not right and I do not pay attention to the suggestions, without apology. It is mine.

She is right about that.



I hope it all works out.

When people leave because of a critic it is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

or another cliche.

it is only hurting themselves.

okay I am going to go passion something.

You are a good friend, Art, she is lucky to have you.

I hope everyone has someone they can whimper to, I know there are many times I need to whimper about things that happen surrounding my poetry. We all do.

Good luck!

first off I got two good shoulders and an equal
amount of ears <smile> so any body need to wimper
feel free

second thanks ana for your insightfullness, I think
we all have but I certinly have tried to figure out ways
to encourage and generate more readers but the
task is great. suppose fates the winner here. I
know so many come and go and return again
after posting my list both templeminded and
lady shianne posted today so that shoots my
list out of the water but the comments and reads
are down, not that I want people here for that
but the lit community in general isnt really growing
but like the blob, fluxuating <grinin'> swells
then declines.

one may be a drop of water but band together
we can make a wave

 

[twelveoone]

Angeline, I had a comma question, I think you answered it - Thank you, in a way, maybe we need more punctuation
/, < (happy angle, comma optional, respectively)
To Lauren, I would add that if one writes only for themselves, they shouldn't post it at all, most of my stuff will never see the light of day.

Art, I admire you for what you are doing. I am a little unsure of what is going on. Is this a person using "criticism" to harass by multiple indenties, and PM's; that is reprehensible. Pointing out the same mistake past a certain number of times, well something else is going on besides criticism.

I defend the critic's right to say anything they want as long as a name is attached. Even "this sucks" is valid as long as they are willing to explain why it sucks. To consistently point out that a certain person's work sucks however is not, something else is going on. In my view, part of the role of a critic is a certain amount of ego deflation, ego destruction is not valid. You have my analogy of the tires.

I also defend the "New Poem Reviewer's" right to ignore whoever they want, one always has the option of submitting on another day, or submitting elsewhere.

It is sad to see certain writiers leave, but as a sometime writer of stuff, I bemoan the fact that three of my best critics are gone, more. (L&F, TB22, and YDD)

Certain new poem reviewers have left or are no longer doing it, that saddens me. (jim, Angeline, Tara, Perks)

I do aspire to write better, critique better, quite often I fail at both. Failure is a huge part of life, and sometimes it is just a matter of degree. The best criticisms I have is when I am getting blasted for something I intended to do, it illustrates to me a degree of failure on my part.

I'm sorry for this long-windedness, I now feel the need to go trash some poetry, you write anything recently? (just joking Art)

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Angeline, I had a comma question, I think you answered it - Thank you, in a way, maybe we need more punctuation
/, < (happy angle, comma optional, respectively)
To Lauren, I would add that if one writes only for themselves, they shouldn't post it at all, most of my stuff will never see the light of day.

Art, I admire you for what you are doing. I am a little unsure of what is going on. Is this a person using "criticism" to harass by multiple indenties, and PM's; that is reprehensible. Pointing out the same mistake past a certain number of times, well something else is going on besides criticism.

I defend the critic's right to say anything they want as long as a name is attached. Even "this sucks" is valid as long as they are willing to explain why it sucks. To consistently point out that a certain person's work sucks however is not, something else is going on. In my view, part of the role of a critic is a certain amount of ego deflation, ego destruction is not valid. You have my analogy of the tires.

I also defend the "New Poem Reviewer's" right to ignore whoever they want, one always has the option of submitting on another day, or submitting elsewhere.

It is sad to see certain writiers leave, but as a sometime writer of stuff, I bemoan the fact that three of my best critics are gone, more. (L&F, TB22, and YDD)

Certain new poem reviewers have left or are no longer doing it, that saddens me. (jim, Angeline, Tara, Perks)

I do aspire to write better, critique better, quite often I fail at both. Failure is a huge part of life, and sometimes it is just a matter of degree. The best criticisms I have is when I am getting blasted for something I intended to do, it illustrates to me a degree of failure on my part.

I'm sorry for this long-windedness, I now feel the need to go trash some poetry, you write anything recently? (just joking Art)

huh yea!!!! <grinin'>
you trashed it real good but I like your trashy side <laughin'>
I was playing around in the thread links and awards wow there
is a place you can get lost in and well came out with
...........serendipity..........


anyway the topic at hand....

I commented to someone on how it seems to be a
gladiator arena here, only the strong survive and the
rotation of posting critics and poets are the toughest
the survivors of the gruesome trials of verbal battery
here at Lit. Personally, bring on the lions <snicker>

this thread was asking for help and the feedback did
just that finding out about the IP block was good and
the ignore, but also it lets said critic know that the game
is open and noticed. Hopefully cool their jets a bit,
I don't seem to have this problem, but if I did ...<grinin'>

however it does show in a small way the feelings and
emotions behind getting continuous bombardment
of criticism, a stalking critic, picks at the wounds
of another, only shows that they are not honorable
people ... who would of thunk that here at lit,

 

[WickedEve]

I have not read everyone's comments, yet. I wanted to first say a few things to Anon that may be helpful.

Anon: I tried to write with all this puncuation. It slows me down. It takes the momentum away. The flow is stopped.
With some of my poems, I forgo the punctuation and use line breaks instead. But you do need punctuation or line breaks that make sense so that the reader doesn't get confused.

Anon: Not my style. I don't want polish.
Anon: I want passion, fever, obsession..
Anon: I LOVE MY STYLE NOBODY WRITES LIKE ME. I WILL NOT BE CLEANED UP.
You can have passion in your poetry. A revised poem doesn't necessarily kill the passion. It usually enhances it.


Anon: I should be editted?
Editing isn't a bad thing. I just finished a poem that was very important to me. I usually don't ask for assistance but with this poem I did. After the suggestions and after my own revisions, I am amazed by the finished product. It's far superior to the original--and the original wasn't bad.


Anon: I lose creativity as comma's, periods and other things come into play.
Anon: It did all the spelling, punctuation, comma's and correct usage of words.
Anon: Writing has become unfun [I know it's not a word] But it's an emotion.
I do understand this. I felt the same way once. But think of poetry as a sport. The better you know how to play the game, the more get out of it. But it does take effort and practice. Now when I write poetry, it's a joy, because I understand better what I'm doing. The unfunzies are only temporary.


Anon: I thought you would understand my style but I see you don't.
Anon: It's not done out of laziness of the language. It's done....nevermind it doesn't matter any longer.
You can preserve your style, even with revisions and using constructive suggestions. Just don't rush it. Enjoy writing, but also try some edits until you're comfortable with editing. Your poetry may have greater potential than you ever realized.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I have not read everyone's comments, yet. I wanted to first say a few things to Anon that may be helpful.

Anon: I tried to write with all this puncuation. It slows me down. It takes the momentum away. The flow is stopped.
With some of my poems, I forgo the punctuation and use line breaks instead. But you do need punctuation or line breaks that make sense so that the reader doesn't get confused.

Anon: Not my style. I don't want polish.
Anon: I want passion, fever, obsession..
Anon: I LOVE MY STYLE NOBODY WRITES LIKE ME. I WILL NOT BE CLEANED UP.
You can have passion in your poetry. A revised poem doesn't necessarily kill the passion. It usually enhances it.


Anon: I should be editted?
Editing isn't a bad thing. I just finished a poem that was very important to me. I usually don't ask for assistance but with this poem I did. After the suggestions and after my own revisions, I am amazed by the finished product. It's far superior to the original--and the original wasn't bad.


Anon: I lose creativity as comma's, periods and other things come into play.
Anon: It did all the spelling, punctuation, comma's and correct usage of words.
Anon: Writing has become unfun [I know it's not a word] But it's an emotion.
I do understand this. I felt the same way once. But think of poetry as a sport. The better you know how to play the game, the more get out of it. But it does take effort and practice. Now when I write poetry, it's a joy, because I understand better what I'm doing. The unfunzies are only temporary.


Anon: I thought you would understand my style but I see you don't.
Anon: It's not done out of laziness of the language. It's done....nevermind it doesn't matter any longer.
You can preserve your style, even with revisions and using constructive suggestions. Just don't rush it. Enjoy writing, but also try some edits until you're comfortable with editing. Your poetry may have greater potential than you ever realized.

thanks eve,

I think most of this was geared toward the stories
as well as poetry. but I see some great advice here
thanks

 

[minsue]

I hesitate to post a response here, but I just can't help myself.

If one doesn't want to receive honest feedback, then don't allow it. It's really quite simple. Personally, I've greatly appreciated the few times someone has cared enough to point out ways that one of my poems could be improved. I wish it happened more often. Hell, I even posted a link to one in my sigline begging for honest criticism and only received one response. (For which I was quite grateful for the honesty, but that's another matter. )

I shudder to think that people are being intimidated out of giving real feedback because they're afraid to offend anyone. Then again, the last time I gave real feedback about a poem that was really quite good, but had typos and/or poor spelling, every single one of my submissions received a shiny new 1 vote the same day. It could be coincidence, but I must admit I now take that into account and usually just don't comment anymore if I don't know how a person will respond.

If this person truly believes that there is one single malevolent person out there using multiple names and hounding them with criticism, then by all means they should report that. If not, perhaps they should not give readers the option of providing feedback.