Annoyance value

[TheEarl]

I was thinking today about the things that annoy us on the board. Not the pet peevs, but the individual little things that are guaranteed to get a particular regular frothing at the mouth. Like asking KM for cybersex. Or calling a certain Swedish regular Sven. Or patronising me because of my age or making jokes about it.

Maybe it's an idea to make a list of the no-go topics and things not to mention, so that newbies can save themselves from unintentional faux pas' and the wrath of the regulars.

Don't mention the war!

The Earl

 

[MathGirl]

Tabeaux

Dear Earl,
I think you need a drink. Too bad you're not old enough. Ha ha
MG

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Actually, the legal age here in the uk to go and buy alcohol is 18, MG. Of course, at that age, one cannot appreciate the good stuff, though one may still legally purchase it.

Which reminds me ... time to go and do so!

GL

 

[oggbashan]

Drinking age

You can have beer and cider bought for you at sixteen and at home you can drink alcohol at any age provided you didn't buy it.

Gripe Water for windy babies used to be about ten per cent alcohol which is more than most lagers. Babies quietened down after a hefty dose of gripe water. Before gripe water (circa 1850) watered down gin did the same thing.

British Sailors' Grog was watered down to about 100 proof because the original Navy Rum was too strong.

Prohibition didn't get very far in this country except in parts of Wales on Sundays which is a religious thing, not an anti-alcohol thing.

Og.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Actually I think that would a useful sticky to have on almost any of the forums, Earl. Except that stickies really piss me off. Not as much as similes*, maybe, but they do make me quite rageful.


Helpfully in footnotes,
sarah


* Or anagrams.

 

[pop_54]

Hmmmmmmmmm

As far as I'm concerned with regard to myself, nothing's taboo friend Earl, I'd even accept cybersex from Durt Gurl. But then I am quite relaxed on the substitute Gripe water tonight.


Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back in time for breakfast.

pops...........

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I've tried warning newbies about my "press-to-see-me-explode-but-suit-yourself-if-I-bite-your-head-off-at-the-same-time" - button, by using the line "Don't call me Sven" instead of a title, but somehow, it doesn't seem to get through...

 

[wildsweetone]

thoughts...

Some uncomfortable situations occur amongst us because we have been here long enough to know a little more about our fellow writers and through no fault of our own, our minds begin to assume in advance.

Most people are blown away by the simple fact of finding a place where they can come and read freely anything to do with sex. It takes a little more for shy people to come forward and actually post on the boards.

Those of us who have been on Literotica for more than a month realise pretty quickly we are generally an open bunch. Opinionated, skilled (or becoming that way), and not afraid to voice our opinions.

When a newbie arrives they are pretty much swamped with the friendliness we offer. That's not always a bad thing, it's one handy way to break the ice.

The most difficult thing to get across on the internet is our tone. Whether comments are made in jest or whether made in anger, we can generally pick the tone ourselves. But, the big problem happens when we think we know what the other person is saying. We think we know because of our own baggage/situation/etc...

We fall to bits when we're misunderstood.

The second biggest problem is disrespect.

The internet is a great equaliser, but sometimes it makes us forget we are all unique.

From my own point of view, I restrict giving my personal information out unless it is given with the intent of helping in some way. Those who are close to me know that I am an open book with them and that I'm honest.

No topic should be banned, but all should be voiced with respect.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

WSO is perfectly right. It's not easy to see the fine difference between teasing a friend and picking on someone you dislike.

I know I come off as a cheerful and independent person who can speak for herself and isn't afraid, but rather delighted, to do so. BUT, the truth is that I'm a very sensitive person, and I'm especially sensitive when it comes to people critisizing me or being crude...

Oh! Sorry! Gotta go - CSI's on channel 5!

 

[oggbashan]

I know you think you know ...

WSO is right. It is very easy to misinterpret words on a screen particularly across countries and cultures because it is easy to get it wrong even locally.

Stupid things can mislead. To me an "ass" has four legs and hooves.

I try to be polite most of the time because it is so easy to offend someone by being too casual but then I sound stiff-necked and boring. What is acceptable in one culture can be incredibly rude in another. For example I would never address a remark to the lady of a couple if she is wearing a chador. The chador is a symbol of her modesty. If she were to address me, then of course I would reply, but until then I would address myself to her male escort and pretend that she doesn't exist. Sexist, I know, but polite.

On the internet you have few symbols to show what is acceptable to others. You can learn something from profiles and how people conduct themselves on boards but it is still too easy to offend without meaning to.

So, I apologise to anyone I have offended. Any offence was not intentional.

Og

PS: I'm still going to write about garderobes and long boring stories will be posted under my name.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: I know you think you know ...

For example I would never address a remark to the lady of a couple if she is wearing a chador. The chador is a symbol of her modesty. If she were to address me, then of course I would reply, but until then I would address myself to her male escort and pretend that she doesn't exist. Sexist, I know, but polite.

But isn't that reinforcing a patriarchic oppression?

 

[TheEarl]

But is it worse to reinfoce a patriachic oppression than to impose our way of life as 'better' on a different culture?

The Earl

 

[MathGirl]

Da Prints

When a newbie arrives they are pretty much swamped with the friendliness we offer. .

Dear WSO,
Absolutely right! I remember Prince Jonnie very well.
MG

Ps. I learned about "Sven" the hard way when I was a newcomer.

 

[MathGirl]

The ubiquitous garderobe

I'm still going to write about garderobes and long boring stories will be posted under my name.

Dear Og,
Hot damn! Be sure to send me a URL whenever you post one of them. I just can't get enough about garderobes these days.
MG

Ps. Who the hell started the garderobe thing? They should be strung up.

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Originally posted by wildsweetone
The most difficult thing to get across on the internet is our tone. Whether comments are made in jest or whether made in anger, we can generally pick the tone ourselves. But, the big problem happens when we think we know what the other person is saying. We think we know because of our own baggage/situation/etc...

Very true ... and a point I have made many times to people, especially in chat. Words alone lack many interpersonal clues: tone, emotion, emphasis, slurring of speech; the obvious visual clues and sometimes there can be significant cultural differences.

But we should not be too self-conscious, either. I think a measure of tolerance and taking the best possible meaning helps ... and, of course, a sense of humour (sic).

Alcohol helps too, but don't punch the screen.

BTW, I don't like being called Sven, either and I'm a guy!

GL

 

[flawed_ethics]

... Or calling a certain Swedish regular Sven. Or patronising me because of my age or making jokes about it...

To think, I was going to ask her what she thought of my Nacken outline.

A pity. I thought it was going along pretty well for no research.

 

[Octavian]

humour?

originally posted by Gabriel_Lee

and, of course, a sense of humour (sic).

Definitely!

The only downside is that our British humour doesn't always travel so well.

Octavian

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Re: I know you think you know ...

But isn't that reinforcing a patriarchic oppression?

I agree with The Earl. I was writing about politeness and courtesy in the world as it is. It is an insult in any culture to deliberately ignore the customs of the people you are speaking to. In the UK many women wear the chador of their own free will because it is a symbol to them of their religion and culture. Who am I to say they are wrong?

I would prefer them to follow the precept "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" but some aspects of Western culture are really obxious to devout Muslims. Most tolerate our ways. Why can't we tolerate theirs?

Og

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The whole veil/chador thing is a muslim thing NOW, but that's because they are the only ones who still hold on to that practise. We used to wear veils too, in Europe, in the middle ages. It was considered sinful if a married woman would go out without covering her hair.
And vice versa. Unwed women weren't allowed to cover their hair. Swedish folklore costumes include a special little "hat" that women conered their hair in. Married women had black or dark coloured hats, unwed women showed their availability-status by wearing a light-blue hat.

Either way, it's a matter of women having to dress in a certain way. Why do muslim women wear chador? One argument they will use themselves, is that they want to be appreciated for their character, not for their beauty. Well, it might work amon open-minded Londoners, but from what I've learned, Afghanian women are not supposed to work outside of their home, and can get into trouble if they're seen talking to male strangers. If they're supposed to only exist within the home and family, how are they going to be "appreciated for their character" by anyone outside that circle?

The most ridiculous argument I've heard as to why muslim women wear chadors, is that they are protecting themselves by not flaunting their beauty in the face of men who might get aroused.
Apparently, you can teach a boy to control his bladder until he gets to a toilet, but a grown man can't control his sexual arousal until he gets somewhere private where he might jerk off...

Should we respect other people's culture, or should we force our own down their throat because ours is sooooooo much better?
Doesn't it depend on what there is to gain? Is the preservence of old traditions more worth than the freedom of women and equality betweeen the genders?

If you met an isolated, primitve tribe out in the jungle, would you want it to be preserved, like a quaint little example of primitives, or would you want to learn from them at the same time as you teach them about medicine and sanitation?

Preserving a culture to look at and smile, like they were zoo-animals, is patronizing. Me, I prefer being friendly to human beings rather than being polite to a culture.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Svenskaflicka
The whole veil/chador thing is a muslim thing NOW, but that's because they are the only ones who still hold on to that practise. We used to wear veils too, in Europe, in the middle ages. It was considered sinful if a married woman would go out without covering her hair.

And in the Roman Catholic church until Vatican II (mid-60s) all females had to wear hats. Originally the focus was on covering the hair because it was thought beautiful hair made women vain, and aroused men. Later it simply became a custom and much was made by women of chapeau couture (vanity, vanity!) So, it was only past the mid-20th century mark that 'modern' women were allowed to enter Catholic churches with uncovered heads. I.e., be patient w/our Muslim sisters. There are more pressing matters in third-world countries than traditional garb, etc. Education needs are great, and greatly desired. All advances will follow from there (at least if the U.S. and other bully nations stay out of the politics.)

Still, good on you, Flicka, for your always vanguard opinions. P.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Preserving a culture to look at and smile, like they were zoo-animals, is patronizing. Me, I prefer being friendly to human beings rather than being polite to a culture.

What she said, only louder and with an obnoxious American accent.

Many customs were put in place to subjugate one class of people or another. My responsibility is only to myself and my sense of justice, so I don't feel compelled to either change the world or perpetuate such customs by feigning respect. Being mindful of customs and differences between cultures is good, and it's important to recognize how arbitrary many of our own customs and social mores are, but every way of life and custom of behavior isn't equally valid.

A friend once worked for a company which was trying to win a contract from the Saudi Arabian military, and a Saudi prince was visiting to tour the facilities. The entire company was informed, at a company meeting, that it would be "desirable" if the company's female employees kept their eyes lowered if and when the prince passed through their area. Now, this (obviously) wasn't a matter of tolerating the customs of another culture; the decision was purely economic. Regardless of the reasons, though, it outraged every woman in the company (including and especially my friend) because they were being asked to observe a custom which demeaned them. To this day, I believe that's why the company ended up going out of business.

Customs, however unjust, remain customs until someone speaks out against them.

 

[oggbashan]

Politesse, toujours la politesse

I thought I would raise a storm with my remarks about chador wearing women but I stand by what I said.

Politeness is about making the other person comfortable. You may not agree with their customs but it is better to make an effort NOT to offend than to do something that you know will make the other person uncomfortable.

However, the factory's instructions about the Saudi prince were wrong. Visitors to a country should take it as it is, not as if it were part of their own country. If the Saudi prince or his private secretary had been asked whether women should lower their eyes the reply would probably have been that the women should behave as they normally do when an important customer visits the factory because the Saudi prince would want to be polite to his hosts.

Having said that, the behaviour of some women factory workers in the 1960s had to be experienced to be believed. They could be more sexist than the archetypical builder's labourer. Any visiting male under 40 needed a very thick skin to ignore the comments on his personal appearance and possible sexual prowess. It was not malicious, was light-hearted, but overtly sexual.

If I had been the factory manager I would have arranged the visit after normal working hours.

Og

 

[Madame Manga]

Being mindful of customs and differences between cultures is good, and it's important to recognize how arbitrary many of our own customs and social mores are, but every way of life and custom of behavior isn't equally valid.

Oh, damn straight. I recall reading an article that offered this as a test for people who like to say they are tolerant of other cultures and customs: what do you think of "female circumcision", AKA genital mutilation, as it is carried out in traditional North and East African communities?

No-brainer.

Intolerant and proud of it,

MM

 

[MathGirl]

they are protecting themselves by not flaunting their beauty in the face of men who might get aroused.

Dear Svenska,
Good point. It's especially effective if brass knuckles are worn as a chador accessory.
MG

Ps. Classical logic notwithstanding, I don't think it's fair to brand Og as a Catholic woman just because he wears a hat. After all, it's really a cake.

 

[Guest]

Re: Politesse, toujours la politesse

Originally posted by oggbashan - Politeness is about making the other person comfortable. Og

I'm with His Oggness and Cary Grant. When I think of how American (yes, I know he started out as a Brit; I think even Cockney) men should treat women in the rest of the world, I ask myself, "What would Cary do?"

As for how they treat American women I don't care as I can take care of myself; except when they're rude, then I fall apart.

I love real gentlemen. - pacific Perdita