Angry readers

[sweetandeasy]

So I have a dilemma. It's a story category problem and I know that gets rehashed a lot here, but my dilemma isn't about picking a category.

I have a story series that includes lots of different things, and I had this thought that the category for each chapter might vary. Some of the chapters include MM sex, some include FM sex, some include FF, etc., and there's some bondage, etc. I started out with GM as a category because I know people get freaked out by MM stuff if it's unexpected. Then for the third chapter I switched to BDSM, no MM stuff at all. Not a problem, although I noticed the scores went down a little for the earlier chapters, as if some readers read the third chapter and then went back to the first two and got angry.

Now we get to the fourth chapter. Among other stuff there's some MM stuff there, but I decided (incorrectly, I have to think) to pick "Erotic Couplings" as the category. Because in my head it's still just kind of a kinky love story between two people (a man and a woman). I also added this note at the very top:

Note: This series takes a lot of turns, and it’s not always easy to pick a category. So be forewarned that there’s male/male play in this chapter, along with a few other things.

Anyway, Lit changed the category to "Loving Wives" for some reason. That led to... some interesting comments. Some really angry comments. Which... I mean, I'd like to say I get where they're coming from, but I can't actually say that, because they're reading stories from a free porn site, and it's right there in the note at the top. So I have to think that most people weren't angry that they were duped into reading any MM content, but rather that I was openly admitting I'd ever submit something with MM content to the Loving Wives category.

So I figured okay, I'm going to just turn off the voting and the comments entirely. Because I don't need the scores, and it's probably getting people all worked up to write these things, and that can't be good for anyone. Then I started getting anonymous feedback (by email) with "1 star" written reviews and more ugliness.

I said I've got a dilemma, so here it is. I *know* I can resubmit to change the category. But I don't want to resubmit. I don't want to say I'm glad the story is going to get people angry, because I find the whole thing sort of disheartening, and it sours me on Lit just a bit. But I also sort of resent the idea of changing things around just to please the worst (or what I think of as the worst) of the readers on the site. And it's not as if I'm taking the stories down, so anyone who *does* like them can still read them.

So maybe not exactly a dilemma. But I'm just curious - what would you do? I admit I kind of like turning off the voting and the comments. But it's nice to at least have the chance of getting feedback.

 

[Emirus]

You can turn off voting and comments or both and put a request at the beginning or end of the story for private feedback.

One writer, with many stories, recently got good feedback from the first chapter but readers thought she’d taken the second chapter in the wrong direction. So she turned off both voting and comments but left it open for private feedback.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't ever write stories that present these issues, so I cannot speak from experience. I prefer to write stories that have a clear erotic focus.

But you are perfectly entitled to follow your own muse and write stories that address whatever erotic kinks or subjects you want to.

If I was doing what you are doing, I'd just brace myself and let the comments and votes come. There may be some ugly comments, but you can delete them. There may be some downvoting, but a low score is no worse than no score, IMO.

But it's entirely up to you and your comfort level, and what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Senor_Smut]

I haven't been in this precise situation yet (though I'm currently working on a story where I expect to face this exact issue) but I have faced what I considered wrong-headed criticism that was both vehement and missed the point of the story. My response was to ignore the haters, because, like the guru said, haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate. I was fortunate that my scores stayed good, but if they'd have gotten bad I would have just turned them off. Who needs the aggravation? I'd have certainly permitted private feedback because honestly I laughed at how angry some people got over a free story not being exactly what they wanted it to be.

With my upcoming story, I intend to say at the beginning of each chapter exactly what themes, kinks, and fetishes I will be hitting on. I can't control what category my story ends up in, but I can be honest with the readers. If the readers still can't handle it then it's their problem.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Sympathy. Most of my stories cross boundaries so I have the same issue.

I've recently posted a 14-chapter series, and most of it is in Gay Male cos there's gay action in it. The first chapter has a fair bit of intro narrated by a woman, which clearly put off lots of readers, but subsequent chapters got their red Hs after a few days (several getting more readers than chapter 1, which suggests the tagline and tags attract readers more than the idea of starting a series?)
Then I put two chapters in Erotic Couplings because, well, no gay stuff. More readers, again seemingly lured by the tags. But didn't seem to bring more readers to the start of the story, so for my climax chapter (mf and mm but not mmf...) I figured I might as well stick with Gay Male as I'd heard any mm content goes down badly in any other category (Ex/V was a contender, Group probably not).

The other option was Novels and Novellas but I guessed that would be a smaller audience. Given that every chapter had a 'payoff', I think specific categories worked OK.

Not many readers, but a few who did stick with it loved it.

I've never posted in LW though. It gets lots of views but given the huge skew to male audience even before the large proportion of woman-hating fuckwits, I'm not sure I'd get many new fans.

Sometime when I'm feeling brave I may try winding them up with a story of happy polyamory...
And take bets on numbers of insulting comments (probably 10:1 illiterate insults to coherent compliments).

 

[Syzoth]

Ironically...

I was just about to post on a similar topic because I've had similar experiences. I will actually start a separate thread, but I've been getting harassed online ever since I posted my first stories in Loving Wives. Even now, when I do NOT post in that category, I still get messages and comments on my story that are similar to yours (ie- "1 star", etc...)

I'm not an expert author by any means and I always appreciate constructive feedback because I'm always looking to get better. But the comments and feedback I get from these people lead me to believe that they're not even reading my stories; they're just posting or sending rude comments just be be... well, rude.


Truthfully, that's all I think it is. For whatever reason, these people are just wanting to cause trouble and ruin it for everyone. I mean, it sounds like you and I are getting the same comments verbatim!

I've also thought about turning off comments and voting, but I do appreciate the genuine feedback. I've tried to grow a thicker skin.

So I have a dilemma. It's a story category problem and I know that gets rehashed a lot here, but my dilemma isn't about picking a category.

I have a story series that includes lots of different things, and I had this thought that the category for each chapter might vary. Some of the chapters include MM sex, some include FM sex, some include FF, etc., and there's some bondage, etc. I started out with GM as a category because I know people get freaked out by MM stuff if it's unexpected. Then for the third chapter I switched to BDSM, no MM stuff at all. Not a problem, although I noticed the scores went down a little for the earlier chapters, as if some readers read the third chapter and then went back to the first two and got angry.

Now we get to the fourth chapter. Among other stuff there's some MM stuff there, but I decided (incorrectly, I have to think) to pick "Erotic Couplings" as the category. Because in my head it's still just kind of a kinky love story between two people (a man and a woman). I also added this note at the very top:

Note: This series takes a lot of turns, and it’s not always easy to pick a category. So be forewarned that there’s male/male play in this chapter, along with a few other things.

Anyway, Lit changed the category to "Loving Wives" for some reason. That led to... some interesting comments. Some really angry comments. Which... I mean, I'd like to say I get where they're coming from, but I can't actually say that, because they're reading stories from a free porn site, and it's right there in the note at the top. So I have to think that most people weren't angry that they were duped into reading any MM content, but rather that I was openly admitting I'd ever submit something with MM content to the Loving Wives category.

So I figured okay, I'm going to just turn off the voting and the comments entirely. Because I don't need the scores, and it's probably getting people all worked up to write these things, and that can't be good for anyone. Then I started getting anonymous feedback (by email) with "1 star" written reviews and more ugliness.

I said I've got a dilemma, so here it is. I *know* I can resubmit to change the category. But I don't want to resubmit. I don't want to say I'm glad the story is going to get people angry, because I find the whole thing sort of disheartening, and it sours me on Lit just a bit. But I also sort of resent the idea of changing things around just to please the worst (or what I think of as the worst) of the readers on the site. And it's not as if I'm taking the stories down, so anyone who *does* like them can still read them.

So maybe not exactly a dilemma. But I'm just curious - what would you do? I admit I kind of like turning off the voting and the comments. But it's nice to at least have the chance of getting feedback.

 

[Omenainen]

Seriously, I‘m considering never to have any of my characters get married, just that the stories can’t end up in Loving Wives. I have no idea what that category is even about, and based on the things I’ve heard about the readership there, I don’t want to know. My condolences for having your story end up there.

 

[sweetandeasy]

Thanks, everybody. Does seem like LW is the real trigger for people, and I'd rather they hadn't picked that category... especially since the characters aren't married... but now that it's done, I'm inclined to stick with it.

And I know having a thick skin helps, but it's not like people are offering criticism, it's just anger. And like... betrayal. That's what creeps me out a bit. And I don't want to give them a public forum for it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I've never had the site change the category on me, fortunately. Moving it to Loving Wives wasn't really fair. That reminds me of the scene in Land of the Pharaohs where they throw the condemed prisoners into a moat filed with crocodiles. Really gave me the willies when I saw it on TV as a kid.

You could send a PM (I think that's how it's done) to Laurel to complain about it. She may not move it for you, but you can tell her that you are going to delete the story and then repost it where you want it. At least you'll have given her a heads-up. With each passing day, fewer people will be reading it, but that's probably the best you can do. All of the negative comments will go away when you delete the original.

I never turn off voting and comments, even for the two times I submitted to Loving Wives. The results were a mixed bag, and I may have done better than some of the unfortunates who stumble in there without knowing what they are getting into into.

 

[sweetandeasy]

I mean, it sounds like you and I are getting the same comments verbatim!

Just read one of your stories (and really loved it). Sorry to hear you get the same kind of comments, but maybe it is just purely a numbers thing. Tons of LW readers out there, and some % of them (and maybe all readers) are looking for things to hate.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I would suggest resubmitting with a category request change away from LW. It takes a special kind of author to post there. I suspect that some LW readers have even taken the time to one-bomb other stories in my catalog just to make a point (no proof, but some of the comments I would get said as much - I've long since deleted those comments).

I write a lot of bi-male stories. I'd love to see male bisexuality as casually accepted as female bisexuality. I know, that's a pipedream, but it's one of my motivators behind posting many of my male bisexual themed stories in any category except Gay Male.

I also try to include a warning at the beginning of the story about what's ahead in the form of an "author's note." In general, I have had pretty good luck with that. Those who know they aren't interested in anything resembling a gay or bisexual male know to pass that story up.

Interestingly, I've received the occasional note from a reader that says, "I don't like gay male stuff, but this story was pretty good . . ." That always feels like a double win for me.

Group Sex and Fetish are two rather lenient categories for stories that might include some bi-guy action. Until the world can accept that guys who love pussy can like dick, too, there may not be a better answer than offering a trigger warning.

 

[sweetandeasy]

I write a lot of bi-male stories. I'd love to see male bisexuality as casually accepted as female bisexuality. I know, that's a pipedream, but it's one of my motivators behind posting many of my male bisexual themed stories in any category except Gay Male.

I also try to include a warning at the beginning of the story about what's ahead in the form of an "author's note." In general, I have had pretty good luck with that. Those who know they aren't interested in anything resembling a gay or bisexual male know to pass that story up.

Agree, and these were really bi male stories as well, not gay male, but as you said, maybe a pipe dream.

And I did include the author's note saying exactly that...

 

[Syzoth]

Thank you

Just read one of your stories (and really loved it). Sorry to hear you get the same kind of comments, but maybe it is just purely a numbers thing. Tons of LW readers out there, and some % of them (and maybe all readers) are looking for things to hate.

I saw your comment... thank you! I'll check out your stories when I get a chance. I also emailed you via Literotica.

I think Literotica is very strict when it comes to the categories. I'm working on an incest series but a later chapter deals with the one of the characters being with someone else (non-family). I was going to submit it under Romance because that particular chapter doesn't really involve incest, but because that's the overarching theme, I was told (and I believe it was on a Forum post) that it would be switched over to Incest.

That example is probably more obvious compared to LW vs Romance, but you get the idea.

I've also complained to the moderators about the harassment. On my latest submission which only posted 2 days ago, I've gotten anonymous emails with the usual insults: "1 star", "Your story sucks", etc... Like I said in your email, if they would give me concrete answers why they didn't like the story, I could live with it and take it to heart because I want to get better as a writer. But the insults are always the same.

And I see virtually the same vague comments and insults on a lot of other stories, too. Primarily with LW, of course. That really makes me feel like that these people aren't even reading the stories.

The thing that really gets me though is when these anonymous commenters tell me that they've giving me 1 star because "they can". I put in a lot of time and effort into my works, so for people to do that without cause really grates on me. I should take my own advice and have thicker skin, but the skewed voting really irks me when I feel like it's intentional.

Anyway, I'm starting to vent and I apologize. But I'm still going to keep writing and posting like I normally do, and I hope you will, too!

 

[wastelandwriter]

"Woman sleeps with another guy" is a trigger for a lot of men, regardless of category and regardless of context.

Today I got another "I was loved how your male MC in your SFF series hooks up with tons of women but now one of them had a casual fling with another guy and I hate that, so I'm out."

Context doesn't matter. Equality doesn't matter. *Cheating* can make someone angry because it's inherently hurtful and dishonest, and that makes some sense. But even when it's not cheating and everything is out in the open, with nobody getting humiliated or betrayed, some guys will still get furious at the mere thought.

It's about seeing women as property for them, and no amount of storytelling or justification will change that. They're only telling on themselves.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

It's about seeing women as property for them, and no amount of storytelling or justification will change that. They're only telling on themselves.

Holla.

The main woman character in one of my stories is desperately in love with the main male character, but she is a free spirit with a very sexy past. This past enraged some incel readers so much that they screamed at me about wanting to tie her down and throw acid on her.

Apparently my principal male character deserved a pure girl who wasn't a slut with a past.

I will never stop writing characters that enrage incels. I've even written some female characters who beat the crap out of them.

And to the OP... my stories jump and mix genres all the damn time. Generally speaking, Laurel puts them in the Category I request until some snowflake has a temper tantrum and she puts it somewhere else to make the crazy go away. I get your distress.

Just keep at it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Incel filth should be given no credence, they scream from mom's basement while sitting in their piss shit and cum stained underwear. They're losers who blame every issue in their life on women.

They're 90% of the LW category, and 99% of the raw hatred on this site.

But the category will never change, the site bends over backwards for it and while they censor and screen other comments all that hate makes it right on through.

If it gets to you write in fetish a category where actual adults hang out who enjoy kinks of all kinds or find a site to write on that makes an actual effort to curtail hate speech and threats of violence against women

This is not that site. This site encourages abuse of women from the stories to the forums and always has.

People wonder why incel nation has found a home here? Stop wondering.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Maybe if the story isn't a clear fit for the category, in the story submission form's section for comments, authors should consider requesting that the category NOT be changed to Loving Wives. Hopefully, that would keep it out of Loving Wives and make a statement about the toxicity of the category. I'm not sure what making a statement would accomplish, even if anyone was listening, but it might feel good.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Oops...

Apparently I accidentally reactivated Anonymous comments again and my latest chapter received a venomous missive about why Covid hadn't killed me yet. Nothing about the chapter, just eight words of that halfwit nonsense.

I shouldn't call them halfwits, it's a disservice to people who are missing fifty percent of their brain. I guess I feel bad for them, really. They need a girl like Alexa in their lives, buuuuut they don't deserve her.

Anyhoo, deactivated Anonymous comments again, since my wall is no place for that drooling idiocy. I make lots of readers angry by having empowered women in my stories. It's how I know I'm doing the right thing.

You can't do anything about the bile that pulses through their veins, nor the caustic spirit coiled up inside them, so just write to make yourself happy.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Apparently I accidentally reactivated Anonymous comments again and my latest chapter received a venomous missive about why covid had killed me yet. Nothing about the chapter, just eight words of that halfwit nonsense.

I shouldn't call them halfwits, it's a disservice to people who are missing fifty percent of their brain. I guess I feel bad for them, really. They need a girl like Alexa in their lives, buuuuut they don't deserve her.

Anyhoo, deactivated Anonymous comments again, since my wall is no place for that drooling idiocy. I make lots of readers angry by having empowered women in my stories. It's how I know I'm doing the right thing.

You can't do anything about the bile that pulses through their veins, nor the caustic spirit coiled up inside them, so just write to make yourself happy.

I've seen your submissions page, and you have a red H on everything I think. Just a guess, but maybe part of it is that they're envious. (I think anonymous users - non-members - can access the submission pages; is that correct?)

 

[KeithD]

Apparently I accidentally reactivated Anonymous comments again and my latest chapter received a venomous missive about why covid had killed me yet. Nothing about the chapter, just eight words of that halfwit nonsense.

I shouldn't call them halfwits, it's a disservice to people who are missing fifty percent of their brain. I guess I feel bad for them, really. They need a girl like Alexa in their lives, buuuuut they don't deserve her.

Anyhoo, deactivated Anonymous comments again, since my wall is no place for that drooling idiocy. I make lots of readers angry by having empowered women in my stories. It's how I know I'm doing the right thing.

You can't do anything about the bile that pulses through their veins, nor the caustic spirit coiled up inside them, so just write to make yourself happy.

Deactivation of comments seems overkill. You could just zap the specific offensive comments as they arise.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Deactivation of comments seems overkill. You could just zap the specific offensive comments as they arise.

I've had Anonymous comments deactivated for quite some time now, because some Anonymous coward commented that black people and indigenous people should be exterminated. And yes, I could just zap the individual comments, but sometimes I'm not at my wall for days, and some of the things that got said upset my other readers.

I'd prefer to not have Anonymous turned off, ultimately, but it's a small price to pay to keep the unloved and unnatural from using it as a platform for their hate. Just doing my little bit.

One day, ideally, I'll be able to turn them back on.