Anger in scenes?

[Bredon]

To Doms, mainly:

This is connected to the Reluctant to Punish thread-

I have been wondering how you doms are handeling real aggressive emotions in a scene-- lets say, your sub has said or done something that either hurts or angers you RL.
Normal human conflict. And you can't shake off that emotion during the scene-- would you stop the scene and talk things out?
It happened to me, and I was afraid that I'd loose control when hitting, because I was angry.
The New Topping Book says that they never punish in anger. That seems like good advise--
how do you handle situations like that?

Bredon

 

[neonflux]

To Doms, mainly:

This is connected to the Reluctant to Punish thread-

I have been wondering how you doms are handeling real aggressive emotions in a scene-- lets say, your sub has said or done something that either hurts or angers you RL.
Normal human conflict. And you can't shake off that emotion during the scene-- would you stop the scene and talk things out?
It happened to me, and I was afraid that I'd loose control when hitting, because I was angry.
The New Topping Book says that they never punish in anger. That seems like good advise--
how do you handle situations like that?

Bredon

Same thing happened to me once, didn't hear yellow initially - scared the hell out of me. EDITED TO ADD: first time I topped formally... END EDIT So yes, ended scene, apologized profusely, then discussed what happened and how my partner was feeling... Promised myself to never let it happen again - now really control my own emotions and how I "hold the space." Am concentrating more on that right now when Topping than anything else (even flogging technique), because I think it's so important.

 

[s_red830]

To Doms, mainly:

This is connected to the Reluctant to Punish thread-

I have been wondering how you doms are handeling real aggressive emotions in a scene-- lets say, your sub has said or done something that either hurts or angers you RL.
Normal human conflict. And you can't shake off that emotion during the scene-- would you stop the scene and talk things out?
It happened to me, and I was afraid that I'd loose control when hitting, because I was angry.
The New Topping Book says that they never punish in anger. That seems like good advise--
how do you handle situations like that?

Bredon

That hasn't happened to me yet, but I'd like to think that if it did, I would stop the scene and have a one-on-one level-playing-ground talk. I think that would be a grave mistake on my part, and if I'm leading something, I find that if I admit my mistakes, the person (people) I am leading is more likely to have more confidence in me, not less. Most people are aware that others make mistakes, however powerful or "together" they may seem to be, and appreciate it when a leader can own up to it. I think the best way to own up to it is to humble myself a bit, thus the level-playing ground talk.

 

[Shankara20]

And you can't shake off that emotion during the scene-- would you stop the scene and talk things out?

Yes, I would stop the scene. When Topping I must not let my anger surface and become part of the events.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I punish _because_ I'm angry. It's a way to work conflict out and keep poisonous rage from building up. I trust my steely self control to keep me from going too far.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I punish _because_ I'm angry. It's a way to work conflict out and keep poisonous rage from building up. I trust my steely self control to keep me from going too far.

just a quick question and hopefully i'm not going off topic here, but if You punish while You are still 'angry' how do You think rationally enough not to go too far? i mean, i know for myself (and the only thing i have to compare this to is 'punishing' my kids) if i were to punish them and i'm angry at them,the punishment would be far worse and probably not at all 'rational' maybe a little over the top. i hope i am not being disrespectful in asking this question, as i am truly curious

 

[DVS]

To Doms, mainly:

This is connected to the Reluctant to Punish thread-

I have been wondering how you doms are handeling real aggressive emotions in a scene-- lets say, your sub has said or done something that either hurts or angers you RL.
Normal human conflict. And you can't shake off that emotion during the scene-- would you stop the scene and talk things out?
It happened to me, and I was afraid that I'd loose control when hitting, because I was angry.
The New Topping Book says that they never punish in anger. That seems like good advise--
how do you handle situations like that?

Bredon

Being Dom is being in charge. If you have issues and can't handle being in charge, you deal with the issues before you take any control. Because, an out of control Dom is very dangerous to a sub.

If necessary, "sleep on it", as they say, and deal with it in the morning. Time is a good way to lessen the heat of anger. But, the sub is depending on you to not only be in control, but to guard for her safety, too. She trusts you. Damage that trust and it's very difficult to repair.

 

[Etoile]

I punish _because_ I'm angry. It's a way to work conflict out and keep poisonous rage from building up. I trust my steely self control to keep me from going too far.

This is the way I like it. If I have failed at something, and my dominant is angry with me because of it, I expect the punishment to both take away the anger and also release me from guilt. I have also invited my Daddy to use me to take out emotions built up from interacting with others - that is, instead of lashing out at those who annoy em, to take that anger out on me. E doesn't do it very much but the offer is there, it's part of my service if that service is desired.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

If I am carrying anger, I will not carry it into a scene. I have to be in control of Me before I raise a flogger to her.

 

[neonflux]

just a quick question and hopefully i'm not going off topic here, but if You punish while You are still 'angry' how do You think rationally enough not to go too far? i mean, i know for myself (and the only thing i have to compare this to is 'punishing' my kids) if i were to punish them and i'm angry at them,the punishment would be far worse and probably not at all 'rational' maybe a little over the top. i hope i am not being disrespectful in asking this question, as i am truly curious

This is also my question, again said without disrespect...

 

[Still Falling]

This is the way I like it. If I have failed at something, and my dominant is angry with me because of it, I expect the punishment to both take away the anger and also release me from guilt. I have also invited my Daddy to use me to take out emotions built up from interacting with others - that is, instead of lashing out at those who annoy em, to take that anger out on me. E doesn't do it very much but the offer is there, it's part of my service if that service is desired.

i am the same as you Etoile. In that i expect punishment if i have angered or disappointed my Mistress, and offer myself as a body to slake Her anger and frustration at others. However there is one important distinction here about how Her anger at me is expressed. She will not punish me in the heat of anger. She knows Herself if She is so upset that She wants to really lash out at me in an unhealthy way - that this is a risk point that could severely damage us (not only me specifically but our trust). At these times She has generally been successful at withdrawing from me and the situation to gain some perspective.

She will then come back and clearly explain why She is angry or upset. If appropriate we will talk about the issue - on a level playing field if necessary. However, after the emotions are settled She will then punish me for causing the anger. This certainly won't be a 'soft' punishment - but it will be a controlled one.

 

[Bredon]

Thank you for all your replies-- I agree that it's all about control-- as a dom I felt very yucky to have lost my control for even a tiny second-- even though ze didn't notice it.

I keep wondering-- if that anger arises ina scene-- I don't mean that the sub fails at a task you have given them, but rather that they hurt or anger you, without knowing, in RL life way- they say or do something that really gets to you (would get to you out of scene too).
How do you handle that technically-- I often need some minutes to even realize that something hurt or angered me-- but I'm inside that scene--
I think I should have safe worded-- but I felt that as a dom I should be strong enough to suppress that anger-- and couldn't-- it leaked into my actions.

Could you give examples for things that caused anger in a scene? And how you dealt wih it?

Thanks
Bredon

 

[Etoile]

I keep wondering-- if that anger arises ina scene-- I don't mean that the sub fails at a task you have given them, but rather that they hurt or anger you, without knowing, in RL life way- they say or do something that really gets to you (would get to you out of scene too).
How do you handle that technically-- I often need some minutes to even realize that something hurt or angered me-- but I'm inside that scene--
I think I should have safe worded-- but I felt that as a dom I should be strong enough to suppress that anger-- and couldn't-- it leaked into my actions.

Could you give examples for things that caused anger in a scene? And how you dealt wih it?

For me the idea of "RL way" versus "scene" does not compute. I consider myself 24/7 despite being in a LDR. We don't differentiate between scene and not...there are times when we are playing, a specific session of kinky interaction, but I fully expect "RL disappointment" to carry over into BDSM punishment.

So for me, the answer is the same. How we deal with it usually comes after the fact...more like aftercare. I've been apologized to for the harshness of punishment, but it doesn't bother me.

So I guess that's how I would deal with it for your scenario too: providing adequate aftercare. Making sure the sub knows that you realize what you did was over the line and emotionally caused, rather than being an intentionally overly harsh punishment. And, of course, appropriate physical and emotional aftercare/healing.

 

[s_red830]

For me the idea of "RL way" versus "scene" does not compute. I consider myself 24/7 despite being in a LDR. We don't differentiate between scene and not...there are times when we are playing, a specific session of kinky interaction, but I fully expect "RL disappointment" to carry over into BDSM punishment.

So for me, the answer is the same. How we deal with it usually comes after the fact...more like aftercare. I've been apologized to for the harshness of punishment, but it doesn't bother me.

So I guess that's how I would deal with it for your scenario too: providing adequate aftercare. Making sure the sub knows that you realize what you did was over the line and emotionally caused, rather than being an intentionally overly harsh punishment. And, of course, appropriate physical and emotional aftercare/healing.

Hm, I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the thought... I was wondering how to resolve conflicts like that in a 24/7 relationship.

 

[Soumis]

I'm okay with emotions being worked through physically in a scene, but I have to trust whoever I'm with a lot more than I would for a regular scene.

The punishment is cleansing for me. I feel that to say a Dom cannot bring anger into a scene is just silly, because I know that I bring plenty of emotions with me sometimes, and they can have nothing or everything to do with who I'm scening with. I'm not sure this makes sense, but I don't think that punishment is a way to rationally resolve a conflict, but it does help clear up any irrational emotions that linger after a rational conclusion has been reached (granted that rational conclusion may be punishment by strokes or whatever).

The punishment being effective and helpful all depends on if I know why I'm being punished, and if I trust the Dom doing the punishing. If I don't know why, or if I think he's out of control, then I'll be in a totally different headspace that can honestly lead to panic.

 

[Ebonyfire]

TThe New Topping Book says that they never punish in anger. That seems like good advise--
how do you handle situations like that?

Bredon

I have never punished a sub, and most likely I never will. Why punish when I can beat his ass for fun?

I correct his behaviour, and since he wants to please me, I rarely have to correct him more than once and that is what I want.

I am not a sceny kind of Domme anyway.

Eb

 

[Bredon]

Ebonyfire--

I think they were saying: never hit/hurt while angry with them.

Bredon

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ebonyfire--

I think they were saying: never hit/hurt while angry with them.

Bredon

I can read. MY point is why get angry at all? [sheesh]

 

[WI Master]

I am always in control... even when i am angry I am ALWAYS in control... I refuse to punish my sub when I am MAD at her... angry can make for some fun and a very hot red sexy ass...but I still have 100% control...if I lose my temper I am not in control and I have done my sub a disservice, as its my responsibility to keep her safe as well as anything else...so I will discuss why I am mad first until the situation is resolved... then I will punish her if it is warranted... in my line of work (I am in the Army) I also have to stay in total control... you lose your temper and your subordinates will lose respect and faith in you... seeing you mad is ok.. but NEVER lose your temper...so my real life definately benifits my sub...

just my 2 cents worth

 

[DVS]

I can read. MY point is why get angry at all? [sheesh]

Exactly. I think it's all quite sexy, beating the ass of a bound and naked woman. Watching her twist and turn, wiggle and jerk around...her ass getting redder and redder with each slap of my hand.

Frankly, if I get to play with a woman in this way, I'm far from angry...I"m actually quite content in my glee. Oh, she might whimper some, here and there, but eventually, she will enjoy my glee, too. Eventually.

But, I"m not a 24/7 kind of player. So, that might have something to do with it. But, all in all, I'm rarely in a bad mood when a naked woman is around. And if she's bound and maybe gagged...I'm in Dom heaven!

Oh, so I guess I can't answer the question, from my own experience. Just from basic knowledge. Don't beat when you're angry. But, if you're like me...it's all good.

 

[Netzach]

I don't punish in anger or the heat of anger, but I can't take my mental temperature at any given time of day and go "wow, anger is really absent from the mix of things in my psyche right now, I think I'm safe to play."

I have no doubt and no issue with the fact that my joy in getting a rise and a reaction out of the physical torment of middle class white guys in the vast majority has to do with a very logical response to the world I live in, even if that's not a textbook example of goodness and light. I have no plans to lie and say this isn't in my mix. I'm not somehow immune to my environment, and the lovely part of SM is that, for me, it's a way of admitting that rather than having to push it all away completely.

I've never gone further along that spectrum than I should, I'm just aware of the fact that not all of the forces that drive me are

1. healthy in a textbook manner
2. totally known to me

 

[RJMasters]

I dunno. For a long time I would have said... nope never.

That would be the typical answer I might give, but in truth there are times when I am angry and have let that find some sadistic expression through sexual means.

I would say that I am more of the why get angry as sexual sadistic play is rather an extreme turn on for me and I enjoy it. There are many ways to torture a woman sexually and I am good at many of them in my own way.

But as I think carefully and honestly, there is often a shift in focus. And some of the most passionate, rough and took it right to the edge has been when I have been aware of some level of anger present. Part of the thrill for me is keeping that in check and allowing for some kind of controlled release of it. Its hard to verbalize.

As I read some of the posts here it reminds me of a scene from a movie called "Munich" at the end of the movie. Maybe some of you have seen it and know what scene I am refering to.

As to punishment...There is no physical type punishment that goes on in my relationship but when i do voice my disapproval, it often has the clear quiet expression of my anger in it.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

When I am in anger I am not in control... when I am not in control I don't lift the flogger...

 

[Bredon]

I don't punish in anger or the heat of anger, but I can't take my mental temperature at any given time of day and go "wow, anger is really absent from the mix of things in my psyche right now, I think I'm safe to play."

I have no doubt and no issue with the fact that my joy in getting a rise and a reaction out of the physical torment of middle class white guys in the vast majority has to do with a very logical response to the world I live in, even if that's not a textbook example of goodness and light. I have no plans to lie and say this isn't in my mix. I'm not somehow immune to my environment, and the lovely part of SM is that, for me, it's a way of admitting that rather than having to push it all away completely.

I've never gone further along that spectrum than I should, I'm just aware of the fact that not all of the forces that drive me are

1. healthy in a textbook manner
2. totally known to me

Its very interesting to read all your replies-- thank you

Netzach-- *slaps head*(Bredon's head )-- thank you for pointing that out. You are right-- it's a gender thingytoo-- I have *no* problem whatsoever to vent my general anger at guys-- and express that phsically too. Where I became squeamish (word?) was when I was involved with a tiny non-transitioned transboy. It felt like lashing out at a woman (in the sense that ze wasn't a muscular guy with lots of male priviledge and a big ego). I felt gulity-- also because there was genuine feelings involved.

Um-- maybe I haven't made that clear in the initial post-- I was solely referring to
a. anger at the sub
b. anger that arises during the scene, or shortly before it, and not scene related, but relationship related. (like, the sub says or does something that hurts or angers you seriously on the relationship-y level)

I think, from what you all wrote, next time I will interrupt the scene when that happens-- it's a safe word moment for the dom I'd say--

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

I became squeamish (word?)

Yep, actually. English is a crazy, crazy language. You're very good at it, though.

And was your transman into sissification (HAH, love that word)? Or were you saying that you're more apt to show aggression to men who seem more likely to be aggressive?