And people thought I was being an alarmist

[SeaCat]

And people thought I was being an alarmist. Too bad more people didn't see it coming.

National ID

Cat

 

[Evil Alpaca]

And people thought I was being an alarmist. Too bad more people didn't see it coming.

National ID

Cat

Actually, I like the idea of a national id system. I just don't like the idea of using state driver's liscenses to do it. The motor vehicle departments of all states are very to susceptible . . . more so than companies that have kick-ass security that have had security violations in the last few years.

 

[zeb1094]

I too would favor a National ID, just not via the Departments of Motor vehicles, the scandels in Illinois alone would disqualify anyone hold in a license from Illinois.

Just the truck license scandel put untold 100's of non-qualified truck drivers on the roads of America. They still don't know who they are.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I agree with the other posters. I'm not sure why I should be alarmed about making drivers' licences a national rather than a state issue. They are that way in many other countries already.

 

[impressive]

Too many people don't drive -- don't want to drive or are unable to do so.

 

[R. Richard]

Too many people don't drive -- don't want to drive or are unable to do so.

Many states have a "non-drivers" driver's license. It is simply an ID card for the many places that require a "driver's license" as an ID card. I would think that any federal driver's license would have a similar category.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I agree with the other posters. I'm not sure why I should be alarmed about making drivers' licences a national rather than a state issue. They are that way in many other countries already.

Again, my reservations aren't with a national id. They were talking on NPR about how lax the security was (comparitively) with DMVs as opposed to other institutions. That would put a lot of very important information into a single database that could be accessed more easily than it should.

 

[R. Richard]

I am actuaslly in favor of a national driver's license. There are far too many people who get a license in one state, accumulate enough traffic tickets to lose that license and then just move to another state and play the same game again.

I does mean that the US government can keep tabs on each licensed driver at least at renewal time. That last is a small item compared to keeping bad drivers off the road IMHO. Also, driving with an invalid license would then be a federal crime.

In New York City, some ass hole killed a woman in a fatal crash. He had his license suspended and then had 18 MORE tickets. The guy should have been in jail, not out driving. Hopefully, a federal driver's license would ground people like that.

 

[LadyJeanne]

At least we wouldn't have to keep getting new drivers' licenses when we move. What a pain in the ass.

That article didn't really present arguments against this in connection with national id issues. It seemed the States were up in arms beause of the costs associated with changing their systems - migrating to new technology, storage associated with document retention, etc.

I don't really care about national id. They've already got us in the system for Social Security and taxes. As a naturalized citizen, my fingerprints are on file. They can monitor what I google. I have a passport - they know where and when I travel. And they can monitor what I Google, apparently.

 

[zeb1094]

I am actuaslly in favor of a national driver's license. There are far too many people who get a license in one state, accumulate enough traffic tickets to lose that license and then just move to another state and play the same game again.

I does mean that the US government can keep tabs on each licensed driver at least at renewal time. That last is a small item compared to keeping bad drivers off the road IMHO. Also, driving with an invalid license would then be a federal crime.

In New York City, some ass hole killed a woman in a fatal crash. He had his license suspended and then had 18 MORE tickets. The guy should have been in jail, not out driving. Hopefully, a federal driver's license would ground people like that.

How do you go from making it mandatory for all drivers licenses having the same look and feel and the data in a centralized database to driving on a revoked or suspended license being a federal crime? Were in the Real ID regulation does it say driving offense will now be federalized?

 

[zeb1094]

At least we wouldn't have to keep getting new drivers' licenses when we move. What a pain in the ass.

That article didn't really present arguments against this in connection with national id issues. It seemed the States were up in arms beause of the costs associated with changing their systems - migrating to new technology, storage associated with document retention, etc.

I don't really care about national id. They've already got us in the system for Social Security and taxes. As a naturalized citizen, my fingerprints are on file. They can monitor what I google. I have a passport - they know where and when I travel. And they can monitor what I Google, apparently.

Yes you will, this is just to require a uniformity in the license look and feel and to standardize the issuing rules and regs. If you live in South Caroline and have a SC drivers license and move to Montana you will have to get a Montana drivers license. The state laws of the state you live in will require a drivers license from that state.

 

[zeb1094]

Many states have a "non-drivers" driver's license. It is simply an ID card for the many places that require a "driver's license" as an ID card. I would think that any federal driver's license would have a similar category.

It's not a Federal Drivers License. Read the article. Geez.

 

[Weird Harold]

And people thought I was being an alarmist. Too bad more people didn't see it coming.

I guess I'm one of those people who think you're an alarmist. The "problems" cited by the various State DMVs are problems that shouldhave been fixed years ago without any pressure from a new law. Things like:

- Some states' ancient computing systems will have to be overhauled in order to link to other networks. Minnesota runs a 1980s-era mainframe system; Rhode Island says its "circa 1979" COBOL-based network will require a $20 million upgrade.

My only real problem is not the concept of a uniform standard for driver's licenses or even the sharing of information between states and the federal government -- those are things that are about a quarter centery overdue.

My problem is the Law is something that was snuck in as a rider on a funding bill that:

"If you take any one of these things individually, you see a significant problem," Steinhardt said. "There are literally hundreds of these problems embedded in Real ID, and the statute doesn't give you a way out. It's black and white. No exceptions, no reality check.

"In many respects it's a statute that ignores reality."

FWIW, one of the problems mentioned, "Valid Without Photo" licenses, would hve affected me for about ten years. Being stationed overseas, there was no way for me to stop by a DMV office in Oregon to renew my license, so I carried an Oregon Driver's license "without a photo" for most of my active service career.

This simplistic law would erase Oregon's provisions for people servinging in the military AND erase the validity of the Military ID that served as the "Photo" on my driver's license for a decade or so.

I'm sure that the laws author's didn't consider that their attempt to make driver's licenses the sole acceptable form of Photo ID for security purposes would make a Military ID unacceptable as proof of identity for those purposes, but that seems to be what the law does.

It's a stupid, poorly-written, simplisitic law, but I don't really have any problem with it's basic intent, just with the method of implementing that intent.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've had a stalker before. So you may count me among those who have no desire to have my personal information entered into one more computer than is absolutely neccessary.

I carry a social security card. That's a national id.

My information already resides in the state's computers. I see no reason it should be duplicated in a federal machine.

 

[cloudy]

What's sort of weird to me is that so many places want a driver's license for ID, but have problems when you present them with a passport instead.

A passport is SO much more involved to get than a driver's license, but that's what everyone wants. It would seem that a passport would be a much better form of ID if the person has one available.

(I just ran into this today)

 

[The_Fool]

What's sort of weird to me is that so many places want a driver's license for ID, but have problems when you present them with a passport instead.

A passport is SO much more involved to get than a driver's license, but that's what everyone wants. It would seem that a passport would be a much better form of ID if the person has one available.

(I just ran into this today)

I was thinking about this as well as I went through the article and the thread. The basic premise is give security a common method of identifying and policing identification of those that want to travel. If you want to travel on planes, require a passport. National method of identification that requires appropriate ID and a photo. The catch-22 is that a drivers license is one of the appropriate IDs that can be used to get a passport.

 

[Weird Harold]

What's sort of weird to me is that so many places want a driver's license for ID, but have problems when you present them with a passport instead.

A passport is SO much more involved to get than a driver's license, but that's what everyone wants. It would seem that a passport would be a much better form of ID if the person has one available.

(I just ran into this today)

I think I would be a bit confused by being presented with an American passport when I asked for a driver's license or photo ID. If I were asking because of a store policy that required a driver's license number to write on a check before accepting it, a passport would present a problem of just what to write on the check to show I'd checked a Photo ID -- I'd be hollering for a manager to take the responsiblity for accepting the check.

I wouldn't doubt the identity of the person presenting me with a Passport, but I would have problems fitting a passport into procedures and policies designed around a driver's license and/or a driver's license number.

Presenting a military ID card instead of a driver's license often produces similar confusion because it doesn't fit into "the way things are supposed to happen."

 

[angela146]

Step 2 will be to put an RFID in the license so that they can track you wherever you go.

BTW: if you have one of those electronic id's for road tolls, they are already doing it.

 

[shereads]

The thing people hate about alarmists is that they're right most of the time.

Next: look for national ID implants or forehead tattoos. You heard it here third.

 

[shereads]

SeaCat, I predict that this will be sold in an altogether different form, as a convenience for consumers. Someone will package the concept as a way to combine some of those burdensome cards we all carry: debit card, drivers' license, social security card, medical information card, bank credit card, organ donor / blood donor card, and digital U.S. passport, all in one. People will eat it up. The threatening aspects won't become evident until the system is firmly entrenched.

Give it some memory so it can download iTunes and we'll pay top dollar. Hell, even I want one now.

Edited to add: a few years ago, Greece began requiring people to name their religion on their national i.d. cards. Stuff like that doesn't happen overnight. It's accomplished in baby steps. Harmless ones that make us feel a little safer or make our lives more convenient. Thank you for reminding me to renew my ACLU membership. I don't agree with every stand they take, but they're the only game in town when it comes to civil liberties issues and a membership large enough to be heard.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

They want to know where you are all the time. They'll standardize the licenses, then they'll embed chips in them, then they'll always know where you are, wherever you are. They'll be ablke to find you in three minutes and be at your door in twenty.

Did you buy some firearm through the mail? Check out some book in Islam from the library? Say something bad about the government in a bar? Order cigarettes from overseas? They want to talk to you. It'll only take a few minutes, unless they decide you're a threat to national security, in which case they can hold you as long as they fucking want. But then, if you haven't done anything, why should you be afraid of them, right?

All for your own security, of course. All because "we're at war with global terrorism", which is nothing but a smokescreen for the biggest upward wealth redistribution and usurpation of individual rights in the last 50 years. They want us tagged, controlled, and sheepified, running and hiding from terrorists while they take everything we've got.

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave my ass. Baaa Baaa Baaa is more like it.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

All because "we're at war with global terrorism", which is nothing but a smokescreen for the biggest upward wealth redistribution and usurpation of individual rights in the last 50 years.

you're preaching to the choir...
amen, brother!

to quote the gentleman in the article: "Can we go home now?"

 

[zeb1094]

Step 2 will be to put an RFID in the license so that they can track you wherever you go.

BTW: if you have one of those electronic id's for road tolls, they are already doing it.

Well they can look all they want, my car is in the driveway almost 24/7, I think they already know where I live! Who ever 'they' is?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

In New York City, some ass hole killed a woman in a fatal crash. He had his license suspended and then had 18 MORE tickets. The guy should have been in jail, not out driving. Hopefully, a federal driver's license would ground people like that.

Actually, people like that don't NEED a driver's license to drive... just a car.

Rules are only for honest people.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

They want to know where you are all the time. They'll standardize the licenses, then they'll embed chips in them, then they'll always know where you are, wherever you are. They'll be ablke to find you in three minutes and be at your door in twenty.

Did you buy some firearm through the mail? Check out some book in Islam from the library? Say something bad about the government in a bar? Order cigarettes from overseas? They want to talk to you. It'll only take a few minutes, unless they decide you're a threat to national security, in which case they can hold you as long as they fucking want. But then, if you haven't done anything, why should you be afraid of them, right?

All for your own security, of course. All because "we're at war with global terrorism", which is nothing but a smokescreen for the biggest upward wealth redistribution and usurpation of individual rights in the last 50 years. They want us tagged, controlled, and sheepified, running and hiding from terrorists while they take everything we've got.

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave my ass. Baaa Baaa Baaa is more like it.

The terrorism issue is a complete smokescreen. I want to plant bombs so I must get an ID card!

Already, commercial organizations track exactly where I am every time I use my cell phone or credit card. I have a little control over them, but none if federal organizations demand disclosure.

I know the argument runs that an honest citizen has nothing to fear but, frankly, that is bullshit. When your personal, financial, medical, social security etc. records are freely available to any state or federal official without control, we have probalby realized George Orwell's worst nightmares.