And now, a word from Bill

[JMohegan]

Not everyone is a fan. Some people despise his work. It's true that the archaic language can be difficult to decipher, and many of his plots or passages put me to sleep.

But every now and then, I am reminded of his genius. Now is one of those times.



An excerpt from Act I, Scene I of King Lear:


Lear

Tell me, my daughters,
Since now we will divest us both of rule,
Interest of territory, cares of state,
Which of you shall we say doth love us most?
That we our largest bounty may extend
Where nature doth with merit challenge. Goneril,
Our eldest-born, speak first.


Goneril

Sir, I love you more than words can wield the matter;
Dearer than eyesight, space, and liberty;
Beyond what can be valu'd, rich or rare;
No less than life, with grace, health, beauty, honour;
As much as child e'er lov'd, or father found;
A love that makes breath poor and speech unable;
Beyond all manner of so much I love you.


Cordelia

[Aside.] What shall Cordelia speak? Love, and be silent.


Lear

Of all these bounds, even from this line to this,
With shadowy forests and with champains rich'd,
With plenteous rivers and wide-skirted meads,
We make thee lady: to thine and Albany's issue
Be this perpetual. What says our second daughter,
Our dearest Regan, wife to Cornwall? Speak.


Regan

Sir, I am made of the selfsame metal that my sister is,
And prize me at her worth. In my true heart
I find she names my very deed of love;
Only she comes too short, that I profess
Myself an enemy to all other joys
Which the most precious square of sense possesses,
And find I am alone felicitate
In your dear highness' love.


Cordelia

[Aside.] Then poor Cordelia!
And yet not so; since, I am sure, my love's
More richer than my tongue.


Lear

To thee and thine hereditary ever
Remain this ample third of our fair kingdom;
No less in space, validity, and pleasure
Than that conferr'd on Goneril. Now, our joy,
Although the last, not least; to whose young love
The vines of France and milk of Burgundy
Strive to be interess'd; what can you say to draw
A third more opulent than your sisters? Speak.


Cordelia

Nothing, my lord.


Lear

Nothing!


Cordelia

Nothing.


Lear

Nothing can come of nothing: speak again.


Cordelia

Unhappy that I am, I cannot heave
My heart into my mouth: I love your majesty
According to my bond; no more nor less.


Lear

How, how, Cordelia? mend your speech a little,
Lest you may mar your fortunes.


Cordelia

Good my lord,
You have begot me, bred me, lov'd me: I
Return those duties back as are right fit,
Obey you, love you, and most honour you.
Why have my sisters husbands if they say
They love you all? Haply, when I shall wed,
That lord whose hand must take my plight shall carry
Half my love with him, half my care and duty:
Sure I shall never marry like my sisters,
To love my father all.


Lear

But goes thy heart with this?


Cordelia

Ay, good my lord.


Lear

So young, and so untender?


Cordelia

So young, my lord, and true.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Jacques:

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking* in the nurse's arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard*,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the canon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon* lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws* and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon*
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his* sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans* teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
(As You Like It, 2. 7. 139-167)

Puke
According to the Oxford Dictionary, this is the first recorded use of "puke" meaning "to vomit." Previously the word had been used to mean a dignified dark brown colour. Not surprisingly, once the new meaning took hold, the previous meaning disappeared rapidly; its last recorded use was in 1615 (As You Like It was written in about 1598).

What does Jacques mean?
Bearded like the pard
As hairy as a leopard.
Capon
A capon was a castrated rooster; the capon was considered a delicacy, and may well have been used to bribe officers of the law.
"Wise saws"
Well-tried proverbs (clichés perhaps), contrasted with modern precedents. The judge is in more than one way well-rounded.
Pantaloon
A reference to the figure of Pantalone in the Italian Commedia dell' Arte tradition. The Pantalone was a foolish figure, made fun of by the other characters.
His
The use of "its" for the neuter possessive pronoun did not become normal until late in the seventeenth century; "his" here is therefore generic in meaning.
Sans
Without (Jaques is affecting some courtly French).

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Huh...... great Thread John.

My contribution.

 

[JMohegan]

I meant to add comments of my own in conjunction with the excerpt in the opening post, but was interrupted earlier.

BB, thank you for contributing that famous speech. The Jaques description of a lover "Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad Made to his mistress' eyebrow" is an amusing reference to one aspect of the point I wanted to make by quoting Lear.

Anyone familiar with the plot knows that Lear's vain solicitation of verbal tributes from his daughters leads to tragedy for all. He rewards those prone to hyperbolic effusiveness and punishes the one who speaks the simple, unembellished truth.

The problem, of course, is that talk is cheap. And as Lear learns very quickly in the play, actions speak of whole hell of a lot louder than words.

There is a lesson here, for all of us in our myriad relationships of any type and any flavor. Not trying to preach here, but just to offer a simple reminder.

The story of King Lear is a cautionary tale indeed.

 

[JMohegan]

Huh...... great Thread John.

My contribution.

Oh, that is awesome! Thank you Rebecca, for posting that link.

To me, it is a perfect example of the "actions speak louder than words" maxim. Kate could speak for pages and pages using the most eloquent words imaginable. But none of the words would hold any meaning at all if she had failed to come promptly when Petruchio called.

I know there are many who love Kate's speech as an eloquent expression of genuine feelings that they recognize in themselves. That is part of the genius of Shakespeare - his ability to evoke emotions to which so many can relate.

But to me, that scene is fantastic for one primary reason. He calls, and she comes. Anything that happens after that is just icing on the cake.

 

[callinectes]

Brilliant. I do hope your point is not lost...

 

[Evil_Geoff]

*grins impishly...* Why did this phrase pop into my head?

Methinks thou doth protest too much!

 

[St_George]

Cordelia

Nothing, my lord.


Lear

Nothing!


Cordelia

Nothing.


Lear

Nothing can come of nothing: speak again.


This is my favorite exchange in the whole of Shakespeare... possibly even in the whole of literature. "Nothing can come of nothing:" is a motto I live my life by.

 

[JMohegan]

I do hope your point is not lost...

Me too.

*grins impishly...* Why did this phrase pop into my head?

Methinks thou doth protest too much!

*grins back* That's perfect, man.

This is my favorite exchange in the whole of Shakespeare... possibly even in the whole of literature. "Nothing can come of nothing:" is a motto I live my life by.

The number of people moved by Shakespeare's work is amazing, isn't it?

Especially when you consider that he died almost 400 years ago, and wrote in a style which has long since passed from common use.

 

[St_George]

Me too.


*grins back* That's perfect, man.


The number of people moved by Shakespeare's work is amazing, isn't it?

Especially when you consider that he died almost 400 years ago, and wrote in a style which has long since passed from common use.

I was taught that at the time of writing the audience wuld be able to spot changes in the rhythm of each line, so to a trained ear there is even more to be gained from the great bard. What amazes me about Shakespeare is the continuity he manages to keep throughout each play. The continuous themes, never clearly stated, but only ever alluded to, with each suble reference reinforcing the point without ever shoving it down one's throat (so to speak). To me, this is what all writers should aspire to.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Oh, that is awesome! Thank you Rebecca, for posting that link.

To me, it is a perfect example of the "actions speak louder than words" maxim. Kate could speak for pages and pages using the most eloquent words imaginable. But none of the words would hold any meaning at all if she had failed to come promptly when Petruchio called.

I know there are many who love Kate's speech as an eloquent expression of genuine feelings that they recognize in themselves. That is part of the genius of Shakespeare - his ability to evoke emotions to which so many can relate.

But to me, that scene is fantastic for one primary reason. He calls, and she comes. Anything that happens after that is just icing on the cake.

I suspect the entire play would be redundant if at that moment Petruchio called , Kate hadn't come.

Strongly resisting going on and on and on with my mini theories based around this work........laughs. Keeps it in my head.......ouch

 

[ammre]

In my bathroom we have a bookshelf and on that bookshelf we have The Quotable Shakespeare which has shakespeare quotes based on topics in it. When we find a quote we like we use these bathroom tile crayons to write either the quote or the page number and line we like. It's awesome.

Pain:

MACBETH: The labor we delight in physics pain.
Macbeth 2.3.50

LEAR: When the mind's free, The body's delicate.
King Lear 3.4.11

GAUNT: They breathe truth that breathe their words in pain.
Richard II 2.1.8

Pain pays the income of each precious thing
Rape of Lucree 334

BENVOLIO: One fire burns out another's burning.
One pain is less'ned by another's anguish.
Romeo and Juliet 1.2.45


(Those were just a few of the shorter selections.)

 

[JMohegan]

I suspect the entire play would be redundant if at that moment Petruchio called , Kate hadn't come.

Very true.

However, I have known many submissives who identify with & love that famous speech, but don't care for much else in the play.

I've never seen the film, and it's been a while since I read the work. But to be honest with you, there's not much about the play that I remember enjoying.

Of course, like reactions to any other piece of art, impressions of a play are 100% subjective and therefore one no more correct than another. But to me, both of the main characters are extremely unappealing (as I read them), and I don't really see it as D/s.

I'm into voluntary submission, not "submission" granted in order to make the starving, humiliation, and other abusive behavior stop. [It's possible that I am misremembering the details here. If you've read or seen it more recently, please help me out.]

I'm also not a "mold them & shape them" kind of a Dom, if you know what I mean. My preference is for a woman whose personality and behavior is appealing to me in the first place, not one that I have to break so that she can be "fixed".

Strongly resisting going on and on and on with my mini theories based around this work........laughs. Keeps it in my head.......ouch

Please do go "on and on" if you have the time.

I would be interested to read an alternative take on this particular play, and to learn what the appeal might be beyond that one famous speech.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Love's Labours Lost,
Act V , Scene I

O, they have lived long on the alms-basket of words.
I marvel thy master hath not eaten thee for a word;
for thou art not so long by the head as
honorificabilitudinitatibus: thou art easier
swallowed than a flap-dragon.

Now that is a word .........laughs

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Don't know Geoff but do know that you weren't speaking to me.

d

*grins impishly...* Why did this phrase pop into my head?

Methinks thou doth protest too much!

 

[JMohegan]

In my bathroom we have a bookshelf and on that bookshelf we have The Quotable Shakespeare which has shakespeare quotes based on topics in it. When we find a quote we like we use these bathroom tile crayons to write either the quote or the page number and line we like. It's awesome.

Awesome indeed!

From everything I've read about the guy, my guess is that this would really, really make Shakespeare smile.

Love the pain quotes, by the way.


My own story of Shakespeare in the bathroom is darker than yours. A long, long time ago, after my first intense pain play experience, I had a very difficult time coping with feelings of guilt.

Even though everything that happened was 100% consensual, and my partner was not injured, scarred, or permanently affected in any way, I still had a very tough time accepting what I had done.

I remember standing in the shower and staring at my hands for the longest time. Decades later, I can still picture the way they looked. I had not drawn blood, and there were no marks or other evidence from the scene. But even so, I remember thinking:

Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood
Clean from my hand? No; this my hand will rather
The multitudinous seas incarnadine,
Making the green one red.


Macbeth, Act II, Scene II
incarnadine = crimson, or blood-red

 

[Stardustblue]

Thank You

Wonderful thread. My exposure to Shakespeare is limited (Romeo and Juliet, MacBeth, Hamlet, Julius Caesar) but I have a feeling I will be reading more of his work thanks to what has been posted on here.

Thank you.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I have to say that I am not a huge fan of the Bard, but I do admit that he was a master at the use of language.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've always loved Shakespeare. I studied him in college and continued in my adult life. I use many of his words in my sig lines because they are unsurpassed in expressing something that matters to me. My favorite quotes show up in my sigline, at some point or another.

I took my kids to the Utah Shakespeare Festival every summer for Lord knows how many years. And my son and his gf made a trip of their own this last year. Jane and I have started making it a 'girl's weekend away' trip, at least once during the summer.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I've always loved Shakespeare. I studied him in college and continued in my adult life. I use many of his words in my sig lines because they are unsurpassed in expressing something that matters to me. My favorite quotes show up in my sigline, at some point or another.

I took my kids to the Utah Shakespeare Festival every summer for Lord knows how many years. And my son and his gf made a trip of their own this last year. Jane and I have started making it a 'girl's weekend away' trip, at least once during the summer.

I swear that when I first saw this thread I was expecting JMohgen to say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

 

[JMohegan]

Wonderful thread. My exposure to Shakespeare is limited (Romeo and Juliet, MacBeth, Hamlet, Julius Caesar) but I have a feeling I will be reading more of his work thanks to what has been posted on here.

Hi, Stardustblue. Welcome to the board, and thanks for your post.

Love's Labours Lost,
Act V , Scene I

O, they have lived long on the alms-basket of words.
I marvel thy master hath not eaten thee for a word;
for thou art not so long by the head as
honorificabilitudinitatibus: thou art easier
swallowed than a flap-dragon.

Now that is a word .........laughs

Okay, I had to look that one up!

Here's what I found:

Honorificabilitudinitatibus is a word used by Costard in act five, scene one of William Shakespeare's Love's Labour's Lost. It is (in the quotation) the plural of the medieval Latin word honorificabilitudinitas, which can be translated as "the state of being able to achieve honours." Appearing only once in Shakespeare's works, it is a hapax legomenon.

A what?

A hapax legomenon (pl. hapax legomena, though sometimes called hapaxes for short) is a word that occurs only once in the written record of a language, in the works of an author, or in a single text. If a word is used twice it is a dis legomenon, thrice, a tris legomenon.

*coughs*

Couldn't they just admit it was a made-up word?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

*coughs*

Couldn't they just admit it was a made-up word?

I have no idea about to what you speaketh John foreth your knowledgibillus horribulous outstandingus maximus thateth I never doeth anythinguth outside the lines of status quo in oral narration or otherwise.

turns off spell check......smiles

 

[JMohegan]

I've always loved Shakespeare. I studied him in college and continued in my adult life. I use many of his words in my sig lines because they are unsurpassed in expressing something that matters to me. My favorite quotes show up in my sigline, at some point or another.

I took my kids to the Utah Shakespeare Festival every summer for Lord knows how many years. And my son and his gf made a trip of their own this last year. Jane and I have started making it a 'girl's weekend away' trip, at least once during the summer.

I've been to similar festivals on the east coast, but never Utah. Of all the performances you've seen, do you have a favorite? Mine is Olivier as Lear, and a guy whose name I can't remember as Macbeth (on the stage).

As for the Cleopatra quote in your sig line,

"I have immortal longings in me"

Yes, I like that one too.

 

[JMohegan]

I have no idea about to what you speaketh John foreth your knowledgibillus horribulous outstandingus maximus thateth I never doeth anythinguth outside the lines of status quo in oral narration or otherwise.

turns off spell check......smiles

My vocabulary sucketh. Clearly.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

: oneverylongtypoapologies :