An open discussion on "cheating"

[MissTaken]

When asked if having sex with someone outside of the relationship is "cheating", here was my abridged reply. I thought it might make for an interesting, non threatening and open discussion topic here.

Or is cheating a misused and abused term for sex outside the relationship?

Merriam Webster says:
Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
Date: 1590
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

It appears to me that "cheating" involves more than the act, but the intent? What is one depriving their partner of ? What trickery is taking place?

On the other hand, Merriam Webster also says "to be sexually unfaithful."

Now, to look at the intransitive definition "to be sexually unfaithful", one must determine what "unfaithful" means. Aha! Merriam Webster is always here to help and says:

Main Entry: un·faith·ful
Pronunciation: "&n-'fAth-f&l
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
: not faithful: a : not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : DISLOYAL b : not faithful to marriage vows

So, in order for sex outside the relationship to be cheating, doesn't it seem there has to be broken promises involved?

Just a few random thoughts and certainly, they seem to be in support of what has been posted thus far.

 

[Guest]

 

[curious2c]

When asked if having sex with someone outside of the relationship is "cheating", here was my abridged reply. I thought it might make for an interesting, non threatening and open discussion topic here.

Or is cheating a misused and abused term for sex outside the relationship?

Merriam Webster says:
Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
Date: 1590
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

It appears to me that "cheating" involves more than the act, but the intent? What is one depriving their partner of ? What trickery is taking place?

On the other hand, Merriam Webster also says "to be sexually unfaithful."

Now, to look at the intransitive definition "to be sexually unfaithful", one must determine what "unfaithful" means. Aha! Merriam Webster is always here to help and says:

Main Entry: un·faith·ful
Pronunciation: "&n-'fAth-f&l
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
: not faithful: a : not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : DISLOYAL b : not faithful to marriage vows

So, in order for sex outside the relationship to be cheating, doesn't it seem there has to be broken promises involved?

Just a few random thoughts and certainly, they seem to be in support of what has been posted thus far.

Hmmm...so in other words...One is not cheating if one's spouse is aware of the outside sexual goings on. Only as long as the other spouse is allright or ok's it. Ohterwise there are broken vows (promises) that make it cheating.


I would tend to agree with that outlook.

 

[Calamity Jane]

If unfaithfulness is defined as a breaking of the marriage vows, then there are A LOT more ways to be 'unfaithful' than simply fucking someone else.

 

[curious2c]

If unfaithfulness is defined as a breaking of the marriage vows, then there are A LOT more ways to be 'unfaithful' than simply fucking someone else.

True...very true.

In sickness and health, richer or poorer, on and on.

 

[8ball]

Don't ask me, because, I caught my SO cheat...er..how about fucking around, on me last week.

 

[J.B.]

Once you have spoken and both have decided to see each other exclusively isn’t that a sort of vow? So dating someone else while still with said person would constitute cheating.

 

[Pookie]

As long as the SO is in agreement with the sex that is going on, I don't see how it can be cheating. Many married and unmarried couples have various agreements between them. As long as those agreements are not broken, then there is no way it can be cheating, IMO.

As long as your partner's "faith" in you is not broken by what you do, then you are not being "unfaithful".

 

[k¡tty]

To me.. if you're doing anything that you feel you need to hide (because you know it will cause problems) it's wrong.

Anything that you may do that you would be upset by your partner doing.. is wrong.




8ball.. I'm sorry to hear that sugar.

 

[katelync]

I dont think having extramarital sex is cheating, IF there is an open marriage, and both parties agree.


If one is hurting the other, then Its definatly cheating.

I agree with this. I don't think it is cheating if it is an open marriage....but if one does not know what the other is doing behind there back...then it is cheating.

But now the question would be...if you and your spouse have an open marriage and enjoy others company would it be adultry? In the eyes of the law would it be adultry if everyone is consenting?

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I think monogamy is highly over-rated and obvioiusly hard to maintain. I think marriage is an old, out-dated device to keep women under control. I think if you find a mate and can both stay 'faithful' happily - more power to you. But its obvious that's not the way the majority of 'pairings' end up. Why set yourself up for defeat? Why not just be prepared to either a). leave when its obviously over. or b). accept the inevitable and deal with it. I truly think if couples looked hard at what marriage is asking of them and accept the probability of unfaithfulness they would be less likely to stray in the first place, and more apt to forgive should it happen.

 

[Pookie]

I agree with this. I don't think it is cheating if it is an open marriage....but if one does not know what the other is doing behind there back...then it is cheating.

But now the question would be...if you and your spouse have an open marriage and enjoy others company would it be adultry? In the eyes of the law would it be adultry if everyone is consenting?

That may well depend on individual laws in each state. M-W says:

Main Entry: adul·tery
Pronunciation: &-'d&l-t(&-)rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ter·ies
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of avoutrie, from Middle French, from Latin adulterium, from adulter adulterer, back-formation from adulterare
Date: 15th century
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

 

[Calamity Jane]

To me.. if you're doing anything that you feel you need to hide (because you know it will cause problems) it's wrong.

Ok, so maybe I'm playing Devil's Advocate. Anyone who knows me knows that I have serious issues with monogamy. BUT, there are a LOT of things that are hidden in a reltaionship because we know the other partner will be upset. Not all of them relate to fucking other people either.

Anything that you may do that you would be upset by your partner doing.. is wrong.

What if I wouldn't be upset at the though of my SO fucking someone else, but I know that HE would be upset if I were to fuck someone else? Who defines the 'betrayal'?

 

[Hamletmaschine]

If unfaithfulness is defined as a breaking of the marriage vows, then there are A LOT more ways to be 'unfaithful' than simply fucking someone else.

Tell it, sister.

 

[Jimi]

No arguments - BUT!

To me.. if you're doing anything that you feel you need to hide (because you know it will cause problems) it's wrong.

Anything that you may do that you would be upset by your partner doing.. is wrong.
8ball.. I'm sorry to hear that sugar.

This Is ALL rhetorical and/or hypothetical...

My partner says a lot of things are wrong - cool. So why does my partner not partipate fully in the "relationship"... My Lit. time is inversely proportional to how good my RL is going.

I'm in a situation now where I'm damned if I do (cheat) - because I'd be "on my own" so fast, my head would spin off.

Damned if I don't because the sharing of the bed for more than sleeping just is NOT there. What is a guy with a conscience to do?

We all know what cheating is. The only issue is how far we allow ourselves to succumb to its attractions

 

[8ball]

To me.. if you're doing anything that you feel you need to hide (because you know it will cause problems) it's wrong.

Anything that you may do that you would be upset by your partner doing.. is wrong.




8ball.. I'm sorry to hear that sugar.

Aww, thanks sweety. It's my fault, I saw it coming eventually.
Let me put it this way, you shouldn't go down a one way road twice.

 

[k¡tty]

I agree PCG, there are things that we all keep from our partners. But I'm talking about if you're kissing, fucking, sucking etc etc with someone else.. and you know that it's wrong and that your partner would think it was wrong.. chances are it's wrong.

Trust me that I'm not standing up on a high moral ground here preaching to anyone. I did my fair share of 'wrongs' in my own marriage.

It's up to each couple to set the boundaries. If you both agree to do other things with other people.. then that's another issue.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: No arguments - BUT!

We all know what cheating is. The only issue is how far we allow ourselves to succumb to its attractions

I disagree. I don't think 'cheating' is something that can be defined by anyone but ourselves.

Some people are going to consider flirtation cheating.

Others aren't going to consider anything short of intercourse cheating.

Still others aren't going to care what happens physically, as long as your emotions don't come into play.

 

[Never]

I think both definitions apply. Cheating is breaking explicit promises or depriving them of an implicit relationship.

 

[k¡tty]

Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

I disagree. I don't think 'cheating' is something that can be defined by anyone but ourselves.

Some people are going to consider flirtation cheating.

Others aren't going to consider anything short of intercourse cheating.

Still others aren't going to care what happens physically, as long as your emotions don't come into play.

I couldn't agree more.


while my ex would have defined it as flirting, oh hell even looking and being looked at.. my own definitions would have been entirely different.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I agree PCG, there are things that we all keep from our partners. But I'm talking about if you're kissing, fucking, sucking etc etc with someone else.. and you know that it's wrong and that your partner would think it was wrong.. chances are it's wrong.

All I'm suggesting is that maybe, just maybe we all get way too caught up in the physical aspect of 'cheating' or 'broken vows'.

There are so many times that I've heard "Well, at least I can say I never cheated on him/her". BFD. Did you adhere to all of your other vows too? Keep every single promise? Because if you didn't, then you're really no better than the one who fucked the mailman.

Disclaimer: This is NOT a rant directed at Kitty. 'YOU' is used in the most general sense.

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

I disagree. I don't think 'cheating' is something that can be defined by anyone but ourselves.

Some people are going to consider flirtation cheating.

Others aren't going to consider anything short of intercourse cheating.

Still others aren't going to care what happens physically, as long as your emotions don't come into play.

I guess that (above) is what I'm saying - from a Judaio-Christian perspective, as yours is from a Humanist/Pagan point of view.

We could argue right & wrong all day but the end result is this:

The INDIVIDUAL has to decide with the partner(hopefully!) what is allowable if expectatations are not being met (within the pair-bond), for whatever reason.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

I guess that (above) is what I'm saying - from a Judaio-Christian perspective, as yours is from a Humanist/Pagan point of view. [/B]

Which brings up an interesting point/hijack... how does our spiritual belief system influence how we feel about physical infidelity?

Do Christians have more rigidly defined 'rules of engagement'? Are they more or less likely to forgive 'sins of the flesh'?

 

[k¡tty]

All I'm suggesting is that maybe, just maybe we all get way too caught up in the physical aspect of 'cheating' or 'broken vows'.

There are so many times that I've heard "Well, at least I can say I never cheated on him/her". BFD. Did you adhere to all of your other vows too? Keep every single promise? Because if you didn't, then you're really no better than the one who fucked the mailman.

Disclaimer: This is NOT a rant directed at Kitty. 'YOU' is used in the most general sense.

I never thought it was directed towards me (in a bad way) but I do appreciate you clarifying it in case someone else did. lol


I often find myself nodding my head in agreement to most of the things I see you saying on the boards.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I often find myself nodding my head in agreement to most of the things I see you saying on the boards.

Really???

Weird.