Amicus2k6 Victorious Again! Lefties wilt away!

[amicus]

Amicus2k6 Victorious Again! Lefties wilt away!

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Almost a year ago, TheEarl, whom I have not heard from recently, invited me to participat,e in an online game called NationStates.

I was suspect of the invitation after reading the mechanics of the competition as it appeared to be grossly tilted to left wing politics and philosophy, however, I was drawn in and after a while began to enjoy the daily decisions about issues.

From a high of 56 participants, the Empire of Literotica is currently left with only nine nations still surviving and yes, for something like eight out of the last nine months, amicus2k6 has reigned supreme.

This is not to gloat, but in the inimical way of Amicus, to goad a few on to join NationStates and do a little down and dirty competition in the fantasy world of politics and business.

Amicus2k6, Capitalist Paradise, 'Give me Liberty or give me Death', is as ostracized there as here and with good reason, no body likes a winner.

So...knock me off the pedastal of victory...if you can.

It is a free site and the rules are not difficult. If anyone can't find it by searching NationStates, or Jennifer Nation, I will be happy to provide an url..


amicus...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

So...knock me off the pedastal of victory...if you can.

Er... Do you realise your victories there are based mostly on criteria such as "Stupidest Citizens", "Highest Unemployment Rate", "Rudest Citizens" and "Trout Farming"?

 

[Guest]

Almost a year ago, TheEarl, whom I have not heard from recently,

And the reason you haven't heard the Earl recently, is he is currently traveling the US, seducing young women with his British accent, instead of sitting at the computer playing games...

 

[oggbashan]

Well done, Amicus.

The Earl has been travelling the US showing the flag for us Brits.

Your views are very similar to my father's. He had difficulty passing the Social Sciences module of his BA (He started to study in his 80s) until he found out that the tutors and examiners were all believers in Marxism. He just wrote the opposite of what he believed until he had passed that module.

Og

 

[amicus]

Lauren Hynde]Er... Do you realise your victories there are based mostly on criteria such as "Stupidest Citizens", "Highest Unemployment Rate", "Rudest Citizens" and "Trout Farming"?

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ah, you forgot basketweaving, and worst environment and being an international pariah for 'liberating' oppressed people in other nations.

It is humorous doncha think, that the free market, capitalist dialogue I carry on in the forum is also successful in a game designed for welfare state adherents and wimpy ecology nuts.

Seems like big business, small government, no taxes, no public schools and no governmental social programs can be successful, even in that fabricated set of rules....

I do wish you had won this month however, it was a good fight all month long.


amicus...

 

[amicus]

Ah, yes, thank you Ted E Bare and Ogg, I browsed TheEarl's journey here but it slipped my mind. And yes, Ogg...Nationstates permits one to be hoisted by ones own petard, such a lovely saying...

regards...


amicus...

 

[TheEarl]

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ah, you forgot basketweaving, and worst environment and being an international pariah for 'liberating' oppressed people in other nations.

It is humorous doncha think, that the free market, capitalist dialogue I carry on in the forum is also successful in a game designed for welfare state adherents and wimpy ecology nuts.

Seems like big business, small government, no taxes, no public schools and no governmental social programs can be successful, even in that fabricated set of rules....

I do wish you had won this month however, it was a good fight all month long.


amicus...

I do find it interesting how you define ‘victory‘. Amicus2k6 has/had a better economy and higher political freedoms than The Kingdom of TheEarl. It was bigger, had stronger military and had a set of thriving industries.

However, TheEarl had the finest education system in the grouping of nations. It had a lower rate of unemployment, a higher rate of literacy and crime was nonexistent. It had a thriving economy and political freedoms, but nothing to compare with the corruption ridden Amicus2k6, which had the lowest literacy levels.

You define victory as economic success, which is fair enough. It's a valid choice and I do applaud you for how well your principles turned out in nation form. However, my citizens had longer life expectancy, better education, a higher probability of a good job and no fear of crime. Personally, I'd've rather lived in my country.

And please don't misinterpret my invitation for you to join as a "Fuck you." You've been much too much fun to argue with for that. I wanted you to join to see what would happen. To see how balanced the game was and to see how your perspective would play out. We all need an opposing position in life and your viewpoint, although overly dogmatic in the face of convincing arguments, is a nice counterweight to have.

As a finish, I must point out that, despite your continual categorisation of me as a leftie (despite me voting for and supporting the right wing Conservative party in England, and supporting big business, small government and lower social programs, as per your ‘definition‘ of right wing), the game classified my nation as Libertarion Right Wing.

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

It is humorous doncha think, that the free market, capitalist dialogue I carry on in the forum is also successful in a game designed for welfare state adherents and wimpy ecology nuts.

Seems like big business, small government, no taxes, no public schools and no governmental social programs can be successful, even in that fabricated set of rules....

If that's how you define successful. Personally, I feel like I did win - and by a huge margin. I have the happiest, the smartest, the healthiest, the most compassionate citizens, my environment and weather is top-notch, crime is virtually unknown, my unemployment rate is lower than yours, my nation is more politically free than yours, my citizens are more politically aware than yours, my trade deficit is 60(!) times smaller than yours. So, OK, I admit, my nation isn't a basket-weaving superpower, my police ratio is extremely low, and I'm a little short on rude people if they ever come in handy. But all in all, I think my little socialist democracy is doing a lot better than your barren wasteland.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

If that's how you define successful. Personally, I feel like I did win - and by a huge margin. I have the happiest, the smartest, the healthiest, the most compassionate citizens, my environment and weather is top-notch, crime is virtually unknown, my unemployment rate is lower than yours, my nation is more politically free than yours, my citizens are more politically aware than yours, my trade deficit is 60(!) times smaller than yours. So, OK, I admit, my nation isn't a basket-weaving superpower, my police ratio is extremely low, and I'm a little short on rude people if they ever come in handy. But all in all, I think my little socialist democracy is doing a lot better than your barren wasteland.

Packing my bags to move into Lauren's country.......

My nation-state died... I kept forgetting to answer the questions! Just like all my plants...

I would suck as a head of state... good thing I don't wanna be that when I grow up

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Packing my bags to move into Lauren's country.......

My nation-state died... I kept forgetting to answer the questions! Just like all my plants...

The answer would be a Japanese Rock Garden.

And you'd be quite welcome in Hyndeland.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Lauren Hynde]If that's how you define successful. Personally, I feel like I did win - and by a huge margin. I have the happiest, the smartest, the healthiest, the most compassionate citizens, my environment and weather is top-notch, crime is virtually unknown, my unemployment rate is lower than yours, my nation is more politically free than yours, my citizens are more politically aware than yours, my trade deficit is 60(!) times smaller than yours. So, OK, I admit, my nation isn't a basket-weaving superpower, my police ratio is extremely low, and I'm a little short on rude people if they ever come in handy. But all in all, I think my little socialist democracy is doing a lot better than your barren wasteland. [/QUOTE]

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You know Lauren Hynde, I do believe that you believe that, I mean you really do.

Since way before Socrates and Plato those thinkers with the great collectivist dreams of equality and fraternity have had visions of your 'perfect' little society of happy people.

Human life is messy; we come into it bloody and screaming and we leave in pain and fear and suffering. We fight each other over toys and boys and girls, each individual according to their inner drives, striving to 'become' what ever it is they see as a value in life.

Happiness and security cannot be given or provided it must be earned and risks must be taken for there are always those who would use force to take what you have created.

Man, the rational animal, is a competitive beast, fighting tooth and claw to survive and prosper in a hostile world.

Read back through your description of your ideal world, there is no mention of individual human rights. The right to 'choose' how one lives ones life.

And that is the glaring fault in your and many others Utopian dreams of a pastoral world populated by gentle people with flowers in their hair.

Each human is an unique individual and if life is to have value, those individual differences must be nurtured and protected and defended.

Not that you will understand a thing I am talking about.

amicus...

 

[amicus]

Welcome back Earl, from what I read in the early part of your travel journal you were having quite a time.

I do wonder and perhaps I should look instead of ask, what lasting impressions you may have gained from visiting the United States?

I suspect my little nation, amicus2k6 somewhat resembles what you found in America, a brash people of disparate and often conflicting goals and desires; a big and brawling land and people, not very well behaved and treating nothing sacred.

Most everyone on the nation state game seemed to want to socially engineer what they envisioned as a perfect society. My modus operandi was and is to leave people alone and free of taxation and economic rules and regulations and let the 'people' determine what kind of nation they lived in.

I kept government from interfering at all levels and acted on all occasions to protect life and the abilities of the individual to prosper without the use of force.

I think that such a society would blossom and while the game seemed to not equate individual freedom with education and the finer things in life, I suggest that economic success is the only key to create surplus wealth that can be used to improve and expand upon the nature we find ourselves in.

Please forgive me if I keep placing you in the 'leftist' category, I think we have discussed that before.

At any rate, I have rather enjoyed to past year competition within the Empire of Literotica and the various nation states.

I would like to invite any who might be interested to join us, it is free, takes only a minute or so each day and can be an interesting diversion.

Thanks again for the invite.


amicus...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

You know Lauren Hynde, I do believe that you believe that, I mean you really do.

Since way before Socrates and Plato those thinkers with the great collectivist dreams of equality and fraternity have had visions of your 'perfect' little society of happy people.

Human life is messy; we come into it bloody and screaming and we leave in pain and fear and suffering. We fight each other over toys and boys and girls, each individual according to their inner drives, striving to 'become' what ever it is they see as a value in life.

Happiness and security cannot be given or provided it must be earned and risks must be taken for there are always those who would use force to take what you have created.

Man, the rational animal, is a competitive beast, fighting tooth and claw to survive and prosper in a hostile world.

Read back through your description of your ideal world, there is no mention of individual human rights. The right to 'choose' how one lives ones life.

And that is the glaring fault in your and many others Utopian dreams of a pastoral world populated by gentle people with flowers in their hair.

Each human is an unique individual and if life is to have value, those individual differences must be nurtured and protected and defended.

Not that you will understand a thing I am talking about.

amicus...

Amicus, I am shocked. Did you just do a 180º in all your believes? Aren't you always preaching that humanity and the individual are inherently good and that if left alone to do as they please, everyone will prosper? Are you now saying that no, that unlike what you always defended, humanity and the individual are competitive beasts and that the natural order of the world is chaos and oppression of the weak by the powerful?

Happiness and security are not given in my little utopian world of Hyndeland, they are earned by a society that takes a lot of risks - it takes the compounded risks of all its inhabitants. Yes, your nation could probably invade mine and destroy all that, but that's a calculated risk. Why would you do it? You know that the minute you turn my nation into yours, all the things that made mine attractive would be gone.

Your concept of individual human rights is a limited one: it involves the right to do as you please, regardless of how it affects everyone around you. It's the right to take what you want.

In Hyndeland, the concept of individual human rights involves the acknowledgement that everyone is created equal and has an equal opportunity in life. Everyone has the individual human right to education. Everyone has the individual human right to shelter. Everyone has the individual human right to the best health care possible. Everyone has the individual human right to a dignified job and x weeks' paid vacation.

The individual liberty you defend is there as well: you want not to have to pay taxes for services you don't want. You don't want education, shelter, health care, job security. That's your prerogatives. You also have the individual human right not to partake in the benefits of living in society. You have the individual human right to take your things and live as a hermit somewhere (in Amicus2k6, even) where you won't ever have the possibility to benefit from living in society, and therefore you won't have to pay for it.

 

[amicus]

No, Lauren, I have not done a 180 on anything.

"...Your concept of individual human rights is a limited one: it involves the right to do as you please, regardless of how it affects everyone around you. It's the right to take what you want.

In Hyndeland, the concept of individual human rights involves the acknowledgement that everyone is created equal and has an equal opportunity in life. Everyone has the individual human right to education. Everyone has the individual human right to shelter. Everyone has the individual human right to the best health care possible. Everyone has the individual human right to a dignified job and x weeks' paid vacation..."[/I]

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Lovely thoughts, I suppose...but let me ask you this, all those benefits and perks you consider to be 'rights' are not rights at all and the question is 'provided by whom?'

You want free education, free housing, free healthcare and a 'dignified job' for 'everyone'...who provides all those amenities?

Some of you folks in nation states tax your people 100 percent, some 90 percent, some only 70 percent. By what right do you take the entire labour output of an individual or 90 percent of it or 70 percent of it and use it as you choose?

As I tried to say before, when you remove personal liberty and choice from a human being, you destroy that human being. The USSR is but the latest nation to experiment with 'cradle to grave' security and it failed horribly, to the tune of the cost of 100 million human lives squandered on your silly socialist dream.

It has never worked, it will never work.as much as you look down your nose and decry the crassness of the market place, it is a free market place where not just products but ideas can be exchanged freely between free people for the mutual benefit of all.

You are not just wrong, my nation states friend, you are dangerously wrong when you advocate and even practice in a 'play' environment total oppression of a nation.

Were it a game truly reflective of human nature your people would put your head on a pole and migrate enmasse to amicus2k6.

As it is the game rewards the oppressive social manipulation and controls and chides the free market place but still, you can not overcome open, free competition and you whine that, oh, well, I really did win....no you did not and you have not and you will not until you set your people free!

Chuckles...shades of the Rev.Dr Martin Luther King, the Rev. Dr. John Amicus Cole rapidly gives distance to and perishes the thought.

toodles....


amicus...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Lovely thoughts, I suppose...but let me ask you this, all those benefits and perks you consider to be 'rights' are not rights at all and the question is 'provided by whom?'

Oh, but they ARE rights. You may not consider them rights, but that's your limitation. It is you who do not recognise all the individual human rights that I do. My people fought very hard for those rights to be recognised, and they aren't "provided". They're inherent to being human and a part of a civilised society. You talk about taxing, and I answered it. You're perfectly entitled not to be taxed: just don't take benefit from anything society offers you and I won't tax you a dime. But if you want to be a part of society, you have to pull your load, namely by paying your share. No one likes a free-loader.

 

[TheEarl]

I'm quite intrigued to hear your answer to Lauren question, as I distinctly remember your free-market health system example being populated by paragons of virtue. When I pointed out that humans were likely to take what they wanted and damn everyone else, you chided me for being jaded and cynical.

Welcome back Earl, from what I read in the early part of your travel journal you were having quite a time.

I do wonder and perhaps I should look instead of ask, what lasting impressions you may have gained from visiting the United States?

I suspect my little nation, amicus2k6 somewhat resembles what you found in America, a brash people of disparate and often conflicting goals and desires; a big and brawling land and people, not very well behaved and treating nothing sacred.

America was very interesting indeed. I went mainly for the people, to see the Litizens I went to visit, and was actually very taken with the people themselves. It may have been their reaction to the accent, but there was a great warmth, even among complete strangers.

There were two major things which I noticed, aside from the Litizens I went to visit. The first was an utter devotion to advertising, whether that be of products, medicines, a state or the country. I've heard many a person bad-mouth Bush before, but not one stranger did it to the guy from overseas. Everywhere were flags and "American owned" signs. It's a pity that that kind of patriotism isn't shown in England.

However, the dark side of that was the hawking through disingenuous means. Television advertisements made outrageous claims to hook the gullible and the worst offender was one which does not occur at all in England - prescription drugs. They advertised universal panaceas on television, that would change your world in an instant. There was tiny, tiny writing on the bottom of the screen flashing up for an instant to list off the side-effects (one of which was quite often 'Death'!). I'm told that patients see these advertisements (regardless of if they have the disease) and go to badger doctors for prescriptions. I was also told that a savvy doctor will fill them, in order not to lose business. I have a greater love for a system which attempts to separate the medicine from the paycheque now.

The other thing I saw was the size. From the size of the cars to the size of the buildings. The USA is big, both in geography and scale of ambitions. Yet, this is not necessarily a good thing. Britain has learned to make best use of the space and resources that it has, seeing as it has a land area 2/3 the size of California and just under a quarter of the population of the entire USA. Ordinary Americans appear to have come to expect abundance as their birthright and I can't help but wonder what will happen when they are forced to share, either by lowered resources or by another superpower.

Overall, I'm considering emigrating on the grounds that I can't instantly flirt with every pretty girl over this side of the Atlantic.

The Earl

 

[amicus]

I am certain you would be welcomed, Earl, and good luck on it....

I have been too long in the rough and tumble world not to realize that many are out for all they can get regardless of consequences. However, the market place, if left to function freely, eventually weeds them out, especially as an enterprise grows larger enough to affect a greater number of people and members of a community, rather self regulating, like a governor on an engine.

a board of directors and a stock owning public function to keep a business on the straight and narrow in most cases, not all, but most, which is why some of the giant corporations are a hundred years old, passed from father to son....

and yes, private enterprise takes the cake when it comes to advertising media although it is more controlled and regulated now than ever before. It is illegal to advertise tobacco products over radio or television and most outlets will not accept hard liquor ads and some will not run Victoria Secrets commercials, a funny world sometimes.

and yes, quite different from europe where all the news and media outlets are government operated and controlled.

thanks for the return, trying to recruit some new peeps for nationstates....not having much luck as yet...


take care...


amicus...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

After getting bored with this, I'm going to try again. Hehe. Can't leave the laurels (no pun intended) to ami.

 

[amicus]

Welcome back Sev and good luck...a little free enterprise competition might put a crimp in my style, but then again...maybe not....trying to talk a gal from scotland into joining, all I got was a 'maybe'...still looking for others...

look for you there....oh, got a $100.00 check from Laurel and Manu some time ago, if that was your sly reference....nice to have a weener now and then, ahem, winner, I mean...(would not want to be misinterpreted) chuckles...


amicus...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Welcome back Sev and good luck...a little free enterprise competition might put a crimp in my style, but then again...maybe not....trying to talk a gal from scotland into joining, all I got was a 'maybe'...still looking for others...

look for you there....oh, got a $100.00 check from Laurel and Manu some time ago, if that was your sly reference....nice to have a weener now and then, ahem, winner, I mean...(would not want to be misinterpreted) chuckles...


amicus...

LOL, thanks.

ETA: here is the link to my nation. [ http://www.nationstates.net/true_gavinium ]

 

[TheEarl]

and yes, quite different from europe where all the news and media outlets are government operated and controlled.

I'm sure Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, the Telegraph, the Sun, the Times, the Guardian, etc would all be amazed to hear your news that they were all government operated and controlled.

Even the one news and media outlet that might possibly fit your description, the BBC, has a section in its charter declaring it utterly free from any political control.

I wonder where on earth you're getting your facts from.

The Earl

 

[kbate]

I have heard that Amicus was caught passing monies to Hyndeland in order to elevate his score - Somehow I think G.W. Bush and Halliburton are involved.

 

[Guest]

I wonder where on earth you're getting your facts from.

The Earl

Earl,

Facts are no longer a part of political discussions in the US anymore. Loud, repeated assertions have replaced them.

 

[kbate]

If that's how you define successful. Personally, I feel like I did win - and by a huge margin. I have the happiest, the smartest, the healthiest, the most compassionate citizens, my environment and weather is top-notch, crime is virtually unknown, my unemployment rate is lower than yours, my nation is more politically free than yours, my citizens are more politically aware than yours, my trade deficit is 60(!) times smaller than yours. So, OK, I admit, my nation isn't a basket-weaving superpower, my police ratio is extremely low, and I'm a little short on rude people if they ever come in handy. But all in all, I think my little socialist democracy is doing a lot better than your barren wasteland.

Yeah, yeah, and my little civil rights lovefest nation is on top of the world in Civil Rights and in Political Freedom. - Without trashing the economy to do it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I have heard that Amicus was caught passing monies to Hyndeland in order to elevate his score - Somehow I think G.W. Bush and Halliburton are involved.

That's a lie. I was dead last on the latest Most Corrupt list.