American liberals have been too complacent

KingOrfeo

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Remember the 2008 election? Didn't it seem like a permanent game-changer at the time?

Dems and liberals tend to tragically underestimate Pubs and conservatives: They are clever and patient, and determined and persistent, and they play the long game, and know the difference between glory and power -- they can work in the dark when that is the best way to get things done, and let others have the spotlight. The movement-conservative network of grassroots and astroturf organizations dates back to the 1960s, and won a lot of real power by running for nonpartisan local elections candidates who concealed their radical conservatism; Dems never would have thought of that, but local governments do matter, and provide a bench of experienced talent for higher offices. The Koch brothers have been at work for decades trying to influence the course of public events through money alone. The American Legislative Exchange Council, turning out draft bills for state legislatures year after year, mostly flies under the radar. The Federalist Society of conservative lawyers meets in secret and will not disclose its membership roles, but you can be sure there are on it the names of many powerful people, including many who are invisible to press and public. And only a Pub would have thought of something like RedMap; it was sheer political negligence on the Dems' part that they never saw that coming or prepared defensive measures. And all of that will still be in place when Trump is gone.

We really need to do better. There has been far too much complacency on the left side of the aisle these several decades. We don't need a 50-state strategy, we need a 3,000-county strategy. Sitting around waiting for the GI and Silent generations to die and the Boomers to retire is no strategy; it will happen and it will make the general public less conservative, but you can be sure the Pubs even now are brainstorming ways to deal with that too.
 
Stop the ideological purity bullshit.

Stop the boutique issues.

Oh and quit buying into every fucking smear campaign that comes down the fucking pike.
 
Thoughtful. But, I'm wondering if in fact the Democrat party even cares.

Right now, the actions of the D's isn't looking toward the future. Instead, it's looking at the past and screaming about how the R's cheated them out of their just rewards. That is, that's what they're doing in between the riots and temper tantrums.

Politics isn't sitting around in back rooms deciding who the next candidate is going to be. It isn't sitting around making deals deciding that the voters don't know what they want so the "unelected" should just decide for them. Politics is about changing the minds of the voters so they support your proposed values. And the progressive agenda doesn't fit that narrative because America is neither progressive or conservative.

I don't like all conservative values. I find them stifling and short sighted. On the other hand, I don't like liberal values all that much either. I find the lack of thinking that spawned the idea of "more than 2 genders" totally irrational. But what I HATE WITH A PASSION is someone telling me that what I want isn't important. That my freedom is only a permission slip. That I am worthless except as a name on a voter registration list.

I am an American. I vote and I believe my vote counts. I cast it where I think it will do the most good and FUCK the political/social agenda and party. Whichever they are. And my vote ALWAYS goes to the party with a history of an agenda that is just to the right of center. And I am not alone.

Until the D's can figure out that they lost because of their unrealistic social policies and policies of division and hate leading to overlord style control, the R's will remain in office. No back room deal will change that. No redistricting map will change that. No grassroots effort will work. No riot will change the mind of 1 single voter.

Winning isn't about telling voters to "vote for me because I'm a Democrat". Winning is about having a platform which provably benefits the most people and harms as few as possible. At this point, people don't seem to believe the democratic version of socialism is that platform.
 
Stop the ideological purity bullshit.

I don't know about "purity," but part of the problem here is that the lineup is assymetrical: The Pubs are an ideological party and the Dems are a coalition of interest groups. That needs to change. The Pubs' ideological commitment is one key to their amazing effectiveness despite their comparative minority support among the public.
 
Stop the ideological purity bullshit.

Stop the boutique issues.

Oh and quit buying into every fucking smear campaign that comes down the fucking pike.

Amen to this post.

I also think it's true that democrats need to learn to speak more directly and persuasively about the GOP kleptocracy. They are shamelessly lying, cheating, manipulating, and stealing from the American people, and they've given us enough rope to hang them with now if we can figure out how to tie the knot.

At the same time, they can't go too negative. I think it's really dangerous to keep feeding into the polarization.

We have to learn how to paint a picture of what the world could look like if we stopped fixing the present and started building the future. Chasing counties to catch up with yesterday's game is never going to work.

It's time to try big ideas. Universal basic income. 15-20 hour work weeks. We have the wealth and we have the technology. We need to stop listening to the people who have a vested interest in making us think we don't.
 
Stop the ideological purity bullshit.

Stop the boutique issues.

That would all be accomplished by kicking most of that shit back to the states instead of using D.C. as a means to shove any given ideological bullshit down all 50 states throats.

If we give everyone a place to go to best suit their bullshit (we got 50 states) there is no reason why we can't just let the Jesus freaks congregate in B'ama and let California put their money where their mouth is and provide HC for all the starving children' of the planet. Montana wants to keep it 1800's pioneer life? Let Montana do it. The people of L.A. shouldn't be able to force them to build trans bathrooms anymore than they should be forcing CA to allow open cary machine guns.

Depending on how important your bullshit issues are you can pick where you want to live.

If you're about that _______ lifestyle go live it, we can all still use the same currency, share F-22's/nuclear subs etc. and everyone wins.
 
That would all be accomplished by kicking most of that shit back to the states instead of using D.C. as a means to shove any given ideological bullshit down all 50 states throats.

If we give everyone a place to go to best suit their bullshit (we got 50 states) there is no reason why we can't just let the Jesus freaks congregate in B'ama and let California put their money where their mouth is and provide HC for all the starving children' of the planet. Montana wants to keep it 1800's pioneer life? Let Montana do it. The people of L.A. shouldn't be able to force them to build trans bathrooms anymore than they should be forcing CA to allow open cary machine guns.

Depending on how important your bullshit issues are you can pick where you want to live.

If you're about that _______ lifestyle go live it, we can all still use the same currency, share F-22's/nuclear subs etc. and everyone wins.

Who gets pot smoking? :)
 
Boy, that takes you back! Remember when most American terrorists were leftists?!

Yes. They were stridently "fighting the power" until they found themselves entrenched in power in academia and the government. Now, back out of power, they are reverting to form and instigating violence again. Quelle surprise.
 
Yes. They were stridently "fighting the power" until they found themselves entrenched in power in academia and the government. Now, back out of power, they are reverting to form and instigating violence again. Quelle surprise.

That and having to work for a living. :)
 
I don't know about "purity," but part of the problem here is that the lineup is assymetrical: The Pubs are an ideological party and the Dems are a coalition of interest groups. That needs to change. The Pubs' ideological commitment is one key to their amazing effectiveness despite their comparative minority support among the public.

First, lol @ "assymetrical." I am picturing one cheek way bigger than the other.

It's happening on both sides. The hardcore Bernie crowd has shifted to constant "blah blah blah corporatists blah blah blah the failure of neoliberalism." They are just as hung up on slamming Hillary as the other side - some of the far left coverage of the Comey testimony was just nauseating.

Yes, there is too much money and special interest shit in politics. Sometimes you have to compromise. Don't turn into a tea party/freedom caucus, you nincompoops.
 
That would all be accomplished by kicking most of that shit back to the states instead of using D.C. as a means to shove any given ideological bullshit down all 50 states throats.

If we give everyone a place to go to best suit their bullshit (we got 50 states) there is no reason why we can't just let the Jesus freaks congregate in B'ama and let California put their money where their mouth is and provide HC for all the starving children' of the planet. Montana wants to keep it 1800's pioneer life? Let Montana do it. The people of L.A. shouldn't be able to force them to build trans bathrooms anymore than they should be forcing CA to allow open cary machine guns.

Depending on how important your bullshit issues are you can pick where you want to live.

If you're about that _______ lifestyle go live it, we can all still use the same currency, share F-22's/nuclear subs etc. and everyone wins.

Which is what our actual, controlling documents say should happen.

The root problem is we have gone to straight fiat currency. The Federal government could still deficeit spend for a while by borrowing, but if they had to do it with money they could not inflate and pay the intetest back with deflated dollars they would run out of potential creditors.

The States only put up with Uncle Sugar because Uncle Sugar can hand them money they cannot possibly borrow on their own.
 
Amen to this post.

I also think it's true that democrats need to learn to speak more directly and persuasively about the GOP kleptocracy. They are shamelessly lying, cheating, manipulating, and stealing from the American people, and they've given us enough rope to hang them with now if we can figure out how to tie the knot.

At the same time, they can't go too negative. I think it's really dangerous to keep feeding into the polarization.

We have to learn how to paint a picture of what the world could look like if we stopped fixing the present and started building the future. Chasing counties to catch up with yesterday's game is never going to work.

It's time to try big ideas. Universal basic income. 15-20 hour work weeks. We have the wealth and we have the technology. We need to stop listening to the people who have a vested interest in making us think we don't.

One thing the Democrats need to do is advertise -- advertise the party, not the candidates. I've never understood why they don't. The DNC should be running ads in the years between elections, and everything you say there could go in them.
 
Don't turn into a tea party/freedom caucus, you nincompoops.

That train left back when they set Berkeley on fire and beat several people into the hospital to protest against free speech.
 
First, lol @ "assymetrical." I am picturing one cheek way bigger than the other.

It's happening on both sides. The hardcore Bernie crowd has shifted to constant "blah blah blah corporatists blah blah blah the failure of neoliberalism." They are just as hung up on slamming Hillary as the other side - some of the far left coverage of the Comey testimony was just nauseating.

Yes, there is too much money and special interest shit in politics. Sometimes you have to compromise. Don't turn into a tea party/freedom caucus, you nincompoops.

Now you're entirely wrong. Trump won partly because the voters (with some justice) saw Clinton and the Dems as tools of the plutocracy, and plutocrat Trump as somehow an alternative. Believe it or not, early in the 2016 primary campaign cycle, many voters found themselves wavering between Trump and Sanders -- and an appearance (grounded in substance in Sanders' case, but not in Trump's) of anti-plutocracy is the one common factor the two shared.

The voters perceive perfectly that the Democratic Party in its present formation is entirely too beholden to the corporations and Wall Street and the 1%. The only difference from the Pubs is that the Dems are not quite wholly owned by Wall Street. That is not enough. The Democrats will start winning again if they become a left-populist progressive party, because that is a real anti-plutocratic alternative. That is what the Justice Democrats are trying to achieve.
 
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Now you're entirely wrong. Trump won partly because the voters (with some justice) saw Clinton and the Dems as tools of the plutocracy, and plutocrat Trump as somehow an alternative. Believe it or not, early in the 2016 primary campaign cycle, many voters found themselves wavering between Trump and Sanders -- and an appearance (grounded in substance in Sanders' case, but not in Trump's) of anti-plutocracy is the one common factor the two shared.

The Democrats will start winning again if they become a left-populist progressive party, because that is a real anti-plutocratic alternative. That is what the Justice Democrats are trying to achieve.

Hilary lost because she is Satan's Spawn. :)
 
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