america, america.

[The Great Bear]

Hello everyone,

I am an American, however, I am not proud of the united states government. In recent times, our government has taken it upon itself to tell other nations how to live, and what they can have, and can not have. Saddam truly is dangerous, and truly is evil, yet how do we have the power or the right to tell him what to do? Would it be correct for the Canada to say that we should not have abortion, and therefore start war upon us? Or would it be correct for an alien nation to come to this planet and tell that we can not use television, because it pollutes our universe? Yet how do we have the power to control and force other nations kings to resign?
Yes, the united states government is ran by people, for he people, yet our fathers forgot to tell us that, weather it is 1 person, or 20 people running the government, all people are the same, because greed is in there hearts. I say that we cannot leave a country alone because we are greedy, and that we have pride, not to be outdone. If we have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t they? Do u really believe that they are safer in our hands? Do u really believe that we would be less likely to use them then Saddam. What do u think?

 

[shescurious]

I think that this is a better topic for the General Board...

Welcome to Lit Great Bear.

Shescurious

 

[flawed_ethics]

I agree no one should be able to tell us what to do. But some people are jerks and abuse freedom outright. Extremes are killing others, rape, and what not. There must be a system in place to do curb these injustices.

In that light, I also agree that our current trend in action is horribly wrong. Saddam is a threat - he cause pain in the past and is still being a bit of a menace. That he is still a threat is reason to keep watch over him (as has been done the past 10+ odd years) but is no reason to go to war. But, IMHO, it is good reason for him to be without weapons. If in other's minds Iraq can only be trusted when he is ousted, so be it.

If he wanted to go to war with us, he would have collaborated with Bin Laden on 9/11/01, with out pants caught down. He didn't, so I don't feel their ties are that strong. If anything, we're just pissing him off enough so that he'd want to go to war with us.

There are other 'rouge' nations out there as well. Claerly Saudi Arabia funded their share to Al Qiada. North Korea is harboring weapons. Yet we don't go after them. I wonder why that is. (no, not seriously)

I personally feel this whole debacle is GW's ticket to another four years to get his fingers dirty in everything we've come to be complacent on for so long. We thought Clinton was a dirty president. But I'm already rambling...

But politics is a mess, and this is a huge mess. I haven't the energy to go at it all right here (with my mistaken view of the world), much less bore/enrage anyone else who reads this post.

Great googily moogily.

 

[teddybear4play]

Hello everyone,

I am an American, however, I am not proud of the united states government. In recent times, our government has taken it upon itself to tell other nations how to live, and what they can have, and can not have. Saddam truly is dangerous, and truly is evil, yet how do we have the power or the right to tell him what to do? Would it be correct for the Canada to say that we should not have abortion, and therefore start war upon us? Or would it be correct for an alien nation to come to this planet and tell that we can not use television, because it pollutes our universe? Yet how do we have the power to control and force other nations kings to resign?
Yes, the united states government is ran by people, for he people, yet our fathers forgot to tell us that, weather it is 1 person, or 20 people running the government, all people are the same, because greed is in there hearts. I say that we cannot leave a country alone because we are greedy, and that we have pride, not to be outdone. If we have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t they? Do u really believe that they are safer in our hands? Do u really believe that we would be less likely to use them then Saddam. What do u think?

Iraq's "right" to their own existence ends when it becomes a threat to us. He's acquiring WMD's for a reason, and I don't think it's for a weenie roast.

If you think nuclear weapons are as safe in Saddam Hussein's hands as they are in ours, you're a fucktard of the highest order, and may God pity your stupid, stupid existence.

TB4p

 

[nightfighter]

MYMYMY......

DO EITHER OF YOU GUYS BELIEVE PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH HAS A CHOICE IN THE MATTER AT HAND....

NO HE HAS NO CHOICE......EVEN IF WE/OR WE SHOULD QUIT RIGHT NOW saddom hussain WOULD NOT! HE WOULD HAVE OCCUPATION TROOPS OVER HERE IN OUR COUNTRY IN A HEART BEAT... nightfighter

 

[Guest]

Re: MYMYMY......

DO EITHER OF YOU GUYS BELIEVE PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH HAS A CHOICE IN THE MATTER AT HAND....

NO HE HAS NO CHOICE......EVEN IF WE/OR WE SHOULD QUIT RIGHT NOW saddom hussain WOULD NOT! HE WOULD HAVE OCCUPATION TROOPS OVER HERE IN OUR COUNTRY IN A HEART BEAT... nightfighter

Are you for real?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

As Head of the New World Order you can all read our plans for world domination hidden within the scrolled engraving of a one dollar bill, right below the Great Seal.

Shh. Just between us, okay?

 

[The Heretic]

I am an American, however, I am not proud of the united states government.

You are the United States government.

In recent times, our government has taken it upon itself to tell other nations how to live, and what they can have, and can not have.

While I can agree that sometimes we are bit too imposing on other countries, the circumstance you are talking about is not just the US, it is also the UN - an org that Iraq is a member of, and has agreed to abide by its agreements with. Iraq made an agreement with the UN after they were driven from Kuwait (which they invaded, sacked and then tortured and murdered its citizens). Iraq made this agreement to avoid the anihilation they deserved. Since they made that agreement they have not met the terms of that agreement. Iraq has stalled, has lied, has decieved, has murdered and otherwise violated the agreement time and time again. While I don't necessarily agree with going to war with Iraq at this time, I believe that if we did, that Iraq would only be getting what Iraq deserves.

Saddam truly is dangerous, and truly is evil, yet how do we have the power or the right to tell him what to do?

We have the same right anybody else has the right to tell any dangerous criminal what to do. Saddam is responsible for murder and terrorism - he has invaded other countries and murdered their citizens. He has sent missles into Israel and murdered citizens there. He sent missles into our armed forces and murdered soldiers. He has used nerve gas on his own citizens. How can you possibly assert he has the right to do whatever he wants?

If we have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t they?

Because, as I illustrated above, Iraq has shown time and time again that Iraq and Saddam cannot be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.

Do u really believe that they are safer in our hands? Do u really believe that we would be less likely to use them then Saddam.

Yes, I truly believe that.

 

[Elitist]

I would like to enter this conversation, however I can't seem to stop chuckling at the dear chap who started it.

So naive and misguided, almost a prerequisite for this site

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Yes. Quite. Shit a pudding myself. Dear me.

 

[The Great Bear]

while you all think that saddam is different from americans, and that americans are different from"AFGANS" and so on and so forth, u fail to realize that humans are humans, filled with greed, and anger, saddam is a human, and so is anyone else in this world, and that nuclear weapons as a hole should be destroyed, not just those who are lagging behind in the effort to aquire them. so, if u dont like my fucking way of thought u dont have to insult me, but prove me wrong insted. i do not wish to hear ur complants, yet i wish to hear ur ideas.

 

[peachykeen]

while you all think that saddam is different from americans, and that americans are different from"AFGANS" and so on and so forth, u fail to realize that humans are humans, filled with greed, and anger, saddam is a human, and so is anyone else in this world, and that nuclear weapons as a hole should be destroyed, not just those who are lagging behind in the effort to aquire them. so, if u dont like my fucking way of thought u dont have to insult me, but prove me wrong insted. i do not wish to hear ur complants, yet i wish to hear ur ideas.

So sue me if I can't take anyone who is too friggin' lazy to actually spell out the word "you", use appropriate capitalization, or bother to even try to spell correctly seriously as a political commentator.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Saddam is dangerous in a very limited scope. George W. Bush is a danger to the entire world. And if you think not, then why is North Korea suddenly cranking up a nuclear build up in the pacific rim? This will certainly get the Chinese agitated. Yep, Dubbya is threatening to destabilize the whole world at once. That's quite an accomplishment for an idiot who couldn't get into the University of Texas Law School.

 

[Shaq]

Yep, Dubbya is threatening to destabilize the whole world at once. That's quite an accomplishment for an idiot who couldn't get into the University of Texas Law School.

Only Nelson Mandela could have said it better.

 

[Shaq]

Saddam is dangerous in a very limited scope. George W. Bush is a danger to the entire world. And if you think not, then why is North Korea suddenly cranking up a nuclear build up in the pacific rim? This will certainly get the Chinese agitated. Yep, Dubbya is threatening to destabilize the whole world at once. That's quite an accomplishment for an idiot who couldn't get into the University of Texas Law School.

And I owe you a cookie.

*hands blk male cookie*

 

[curious2c]

I will not say that Saddam Hussien is a nice man...he isn't. But if you look back in history, Kuwait used to be a state of Iraq. In nineteen thirty two it was taken by Great Britian. By force. When in the nineties Saddam acted to take Kuwait back, it was the act of a country taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

During Desert Storm, We, the United States, offered to help kurds in overthrowing Saddam. Then we left them high and dry. Of course he went after them. After all, they had tried to kill his daddy. (poor pun I know, I know)

Anyway, he went after them. Those Kurds who also had...remember this? AL Queada rebels in their midst. Hmmmm...

We fought Iraq when we probably should have been neutral at the very most. In any event, how many Weapons of mass destruction has GWB found so far? How many were or are ready to be used?

Like it or not, we fought Desert Storm for oil, no other reason. If there had been...why did we not support Afganistan against the Russians way back when? Because Afghanistan has little or no oil. They have little of anything. Look to countries in Africa, those that we have ignored for years...if we are so benevolent, and want to help fight comunism, and stand up for freedom...why have we not been in helping them too? Perhaps because they have nothing we want or need as a nation?

Our foriegn policy changes at the whim of each president. Each time, countries are left hanging due to the changes that have no 'follow through' or carry over to see that the original intent started was finished. It is no wonder that most of the world hates our government and what it stands for. Do this, no this, now do this. Reversals and suppport dropped due to political concerns...we must look insane and physcotic to other countries at times.

Maybe it is time to have our foriegn affairs ran by a seperate government. An elected group of people who's only job is to set foreign policy, and keep it even-handed and on track. Seperate from the executive and legislative branch as much as possible. Or...perhaps we should follow in the wishes of some of our forefathers, such as Washington, Madison and others...NO foreign entanglements. Stay out of foreign affairs completely. No aid, no help militairily, no nothing. Free trade with those willing to trade freely with us.

 

[medjay]

So sue me if I can't take anyone who is too friggin' lazy to actually spell out the word "you", use appropriate capitalization, or bother to even try to spell correctly seriously as a political commentator.

Amazing how lack of good syntax can so completely sink someone around here. Guess that's what happens on a website geared toward writing.

 

[Gil_Favor]

What do u think? [/B]

I think your an idiot......

 

[sensational204]

I will not say that Saddam Hussien is a nice man...he isn't. But if you look back in history, Kuwait used to be a state of Iraq. In nineteen thirty two it was taken by Great Britian. By force. When in the nineties Saddam acted to take Kuwait back, it was the act of a country taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

During Desert Storm, We, the United States, offered to help kurds in overthrowing Saddam. Then we left them high and dry. Of course he went after them. After all, they had tried to kill his daddy. (poor pun I know, I know)

Anyway, he went after them. Those Kurds who also had...remember this? AL Queada rebels in their midst. Hmmmm...

We fought Iraq when we probably should have been neutral at the very most. In any event, how many Weapons of mass destruction has GWB found so far? How many were or are ready to be used?

Like it or not, we fought Desert Storm for oil, no other reason. If there had been...why did we not support Afganistan against the Russians way back when? Because Afghanistan has little or no oil. They have little of anything. Look to countries in Africa, those that we have ignored for years...if we are so benevolent, and want to help fight comunism, and stand up for freedom...why have we not been in helping them too? Perhaps because they have nothing we want or need as a nation?

Our foriegn policy changes at the whim of each president. Each time, countries are left hanging due to the changes that have no 'follow through' or carry over to see that the original intent started was finished. It is no wonder that most of the world hates our government and what it stands for. Do this, no this, now do this. Reversals and suppport dropped due to political concerns...we must look insane and physcotic to other countries at times.

Maybe it is time to have our foriegn affairs ran by a seperate government. An elected group of people who's only job is to set foreign policy, and keep it even-handed and on track. Seperate from the executive and legislative branch as much as possible. Or...perhaps we should follow in the wishes of some of our forefathers, such as Washington, Madison and others...NO foreign entanglements. Stay out of foreign affairs completely. No aid, no help militairily, no nothing. Free trade with those willing to trade freely with us.

Good post Curious. There's a lot of truth to this.

 

[Texan]

I seriously want to check the ID's of some of the posters in this thread. You are supposed to be over 18 to be here, right?


Today, as I read the political threads, I am repeatedly reminded of the, at times subtle differences in the meanings of the words; "ignorant," "dumb," and "stupid."


What is sadly likely, is that those for whom this post was intended, will probably think it was intended for the rest.

 

[Shaq]

I seriously want to check the ID's of some of the posters in this thread. You are supposed to be over 18 to be here, right?

Ignorance doesn't decrease with age.

I'm not saying you're old and ignorant.

I just mean in general.

 

[The Heretic]

while you all think that saddam is different from americans, and that americans are different from"AFGANS" and so on and so forth, u fail to realize that humans are humans, filled with greed, and anger, saddam is a human, and so is anyone else in this world, and that nuclear weapons as a hole should be destroyed, not just those who are lagging behind in the effort to aquire them. so, if u dont like my fucking way of thought u dont have to insult me, but prove me wrong insted. i do not wish to hear ur complants, yet i wish to hear ur ideas.

I didn't complain in my post - but of course you ignored it because it shot your first post all to hell. But since you don't think there is a difference between Saddam and the us, consider this:

1) Iraq responded to the Columbia disaster by gloating and gleefully declaring this was the will of Allah punishing us for daring to attack Iraq. How do we respond when countries have similar tragedies? We express our condolences and offer any support they will accept.

2) When Iraq invaded Kuwait (unprovoked), they looted, they raped, they tortured and they murdered - they also installed their own government. When we drove them out of Kuwait and invaded Iraq, we treated their prisoners humanely, we didn't torture them, we didn't murder or rape them, we didn't loot Iraq, we tried very hard to only bomb military targets, we didn't overthrow their government. Iraq in turn beat and tortured American POWs, and when they lef Kuwait they torched the oil fields leaving behind an environmental disaster which we had to clean up.

Those are just two examples - not to mention what I stated in my first post, I could go on and on, but if you can't see the differences by now then you are blind.

Yes, people the world wide are humans - but that is just a biological fact; it ignores the cultural and personality differences. We aren't going to war with Saddam because he has a mustache, or because he is located in the Middle East - we are going to war with him because he is a fucking maniac who is quite willing to use weapons of mass destruction.

If you can't come up with something more intelligent to post on the issue then I am out of here.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

We fought Iraq when we probably should have been neutral at the very most. In any event, how many Weapons of mass destruction has GWB found so far? How many were or are ready to be used?

Like it or not, we fought Desert Storm for oil, no other reason. If there had been...why did we not support Afganistan against the Russians way back when? Because Afghanistan has little or no oil. They have little of anything. Look to countries in Africa, those that we have ignored for years...if we are so benevolent, and want to help fight comunism, and stand up for freedom...why have we not been in helping them too? Perhaps because they have nothing we want or need as a nation?

Our foriegn policy changes at the whim of each president. Each time, countries are left hanging due to the changes that have no 'follow through' or carry over to see that the original intent started was finished. It is no wonder that most of the world hates our government and what it stands for. Do this, no this, now do this. Reversals and suppport dropped due to political concerns...we must look insane and physcotic to other countries at times.

Maybe it is time to have our foriegn affairs ran by a seperate government. An elected group of people who's only job is to set foreign policy, and keep it even-handed and on track. Seperate from the executive and legislative branch as much as possible. Or...perhaps we should follow in the wishes of some of our forefathers, such as Washington, Madison and others...NO foreign entanglements. Stay out of foreign affairs completely. No aid, no help militairily, no nothing. Free trade with those willing to trade freely with us.

Letsse. For one thing Saddam have stated over and over again, his self-stated goal is domination of the Middle East. Dont forget to mention that the man set off a seven year war with Iran prior to his invasion of Kuwait. Whatever the justifications, Kuwait had not been part of Iraq for over sixty years at the time of the invasion.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Gee. I dunno. He only has a whole country to hide them in. Recent news has one of his bodyquards defecting and he is supposed to have spilled on the locations of a couple of stockpiles. We shall see.

There are lots of other reasons to have political and economic concerns besides oil. In fact, the whole blood for oil argument makes no sense. Think about it. If all that we gave a damn about was the oil, we'd just lift the sanctions and the price would drop to ten bucks a barrel. Militarily strategic positioning is one.
Knocking out a tin pot dictator is another. I suspect that the postion we are in now is similar to that confronting the Europeans in 1938. Not that Saddam presents a danger on the scale of Hitler, but more because we can fight a war now, or fight a much nastier one a couple of years from now.

 

[The Great Bear]

lol. All u fools trying to hurt my feelings by telling me how "bad" i spell and the use of " U " insted of you, are missing the point, and i really dont care what u think about me, because it doesnt matter if i can spell or not. some are good at art, some are good at writing, and some are good at other things. i am not good at writing, but i do have views just like everyone else, and if u dont like it, u can kiss my white american ass, because as far as care, u R all inside the 90% pecent of dick suckers in the U.S that go by every day in life and look in you're little mirrors and say, wow,,,arnt i KEWL, and when u turn the key in ur 20,000 dollar car u think that u have created success for yourself, but if u destroy my words by saying im stupid, im still here, and if destroy my words by saying im wrong, without insulting me, im still right here laughing at you.
to tell you the truth, i hate america, i hate africa, and asia, and yes the middle east, i hate the uk, and all those other little shit holes out there. why you ask?...because i can, and because i dont give a big fuck about YOU,,,and YOU, and YOU, and ur fat bitch at home that sucks ur little dick so she can have a new lazy boy chair for the living room, and i dont care about ur stupid son, or doughter, nor do i care about that fucking bald head, or that pimply ass ridden hole of ur's..
o, and im leaving the United FUCKING States of america. and when i look back to the south,,,it willl only be to piss, and to shit, so that i may honor all the dead mother fuckers out there , that died for this no good peace of shit country, and so that i may think about ass fucking each one of ur fat mothers.
my god not bless you, and my god curse you with bunches and bunches of butt plugs.
and if u dotn believe in god...i hope u burn in hell,,,HELL i hope u all burn,,,and ill be laughing,.......o yes.....laughing. so fuck you, and have a wonderful life.

 

[teddybear4play]

I will not say that Saddam Hussien is a nice man...he isn't. But if you look back in history, Kuwait used to be a state of Iraq. In nineteen thirty two it was taken by Great Britian. By force. When in the nineties Saddam acted to take Kuwait back, it was the act of a country taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

Which was then condemned by the U.N.

Britain originally "had" us. Does that mean they can walk right back into Washington?

In any event, how many Weapons of mass destruction has GWB found so far? How many were or are ready to be used?

Irrelevant. S.R. 1441 puts the burden of proof on Saddam to provide proof of his disarmament.

With only a scant few inspectors, and a country as large as Iraq is, even if you gave them years to find the weapons, they probably never would. There's too many places to hide them.

Like it or not, we fought Desert Storm for oil, no other reason.

And there's nothing wrong with saying so. Oil is the lifeblood of the American economy. Look how much the economy dipped in 1990-92.

If there had been...why did we not support Afganistan against the Russians way back when? Because Afghanistan has little or no oil. They have little of anything. Look to countries in Africa, those that we have ignored for years...if we are so benevolent, and want to help fight comunism, and stand up for freedom...why have we not been in helping them too? Perhaps because they have nothing we want or need as a nation?

We do "help" them, just not with troops. If we had intervened militarily in Afghanistan, it would have meant World War III. During the Cold War, the U.S. and U.S.S.R. had wars by proxy — one nation supported one side, one supported the other.

And you might want to talk to Don K Dyck, he seems to think there's oil to be had in Afghanistan. But it's a really good cover; truth be told, just about every sizable nation on the planet either has oil or lies between an oil-producing nation and a shipping line.

Our foriegn policy changes at the whim of each president. Each time, countries are left hanging due to the changes that have no 'follow through' or carry over to see that the original intent started was finished. It is no wonder that most of the world hates our government and what it stands for. Do this, no this, now do this. Reversals and suppport dropped due to political concerns...we must look insane and physcotic to other countries at times.

It's nothing that no other country goes through. The UK's foreign policy is different under Tony Blair than it was under Margaret Thatcher.

Like it or not, as administrations change and as time changes and events happen, foreign policy must be adaptable.

Maybe it is time to have our foriegn affairs ran by a seperate government. An elected group of people who's only job is to set foreign policy, and keep it even-handed and on track. Seperate from the executive and legislative branch as much as possible.

This would solve nothing, as the foreign policies would change at the whim of each new "administration" there, too. Democracy's funny that way.

Or...perhaps we should follow in the wishes of some of our forefathers, such as Washington, Madison and others...NO foreign entanglements. Stay out of foreign affairs completely. No aid, no help militairily, no nothing. Free trade with those willing to trade freely with us.

Now you're talking.

But then the question arises: is there ever a point where we should be allowed to intervene? If someone is a demonstrable, credible threat to us, we ought to be allowed to act. This is the position George W. Bush is taking with Iraq. Your criticisms of being everywhere at once were really of the previous administration.

TB4p