Am I overreacting?

[Jade]

I wasn't sure about creating this thread or not but I really need some opinions on this.

It's about my boss.
He hits on me... a LOT! I understand about flirting... I flirt with most everyone, including my co-workers... but no one does it back the way my boss does. To me there is a line and I feel like he is crossing it but I think it's actually my own damn fault.

He has overheard conversations I have had with other co-workers about sex. (basically they all know I haven't had "any" ... [w/the exception of phone sex] in quite some time.... I get teased about this but it doesn't bother me.)

Anyway, he uses that as an excuse to say things like "Jade (insert real life name here of course) isn't getting any so what you can do to really make her day is this:" and then he will proceed to start petting my hair or my back or my stomach, etc.

I really don't know what to say.
The worst was a few days ago when he came up behind me and crossed his arms around me and said "you know what? you are the perfect spooning size for my body. You would be so great for spooning."

WTF?
I feel like I am overreacting and like it is my fault. I wish it didn't bother me so much but it does.
He did try to ask me on a date about a month ago.
I never called him back.

Hell NO I wouldn't date my boss... not ever.

Anyway, if someone could just tell me what they thought of this... it would really clear my head... I feel sort of subjective here... and I just can't see this for what it is, which I am sure is nothing.

I wish life and it's fucking situations didn't always seem like a big 'ol game sometimes and that I knew what to make of this and that... but still, at 23 I admit, I feel completely dumb and clueless atm. *sigh*



I want to move to Iceland.

 

[April]

Sweetie, I think you already know. It bothers you, so make him stop. Personally, I think he is definitely crossing the line. You need to let him know that it is unacceptable behavior, and he needs to stop it immediately.

 

[Problem Child]

You are definitely not over-reacting and he has definitely crossed the line. It sounds like what he is doing is legitimate grounds for a sexual harrassment lawsuit.

You should have a serious discussion with him and tell him you do not appreciate what he is doing.

Where it goes from there depends on his reaction and how far you're willing to take it.

 

[GuyJD]

JADE......if it bothers you, you are not overreacting. Just tell him that you are uncomfortable with him "hitting on you" like such. If he mentions of your flirtation with the coworkers, simply explain that they (the coworkers) know that it is all play.
BE CAREFUL!!

 

[DarlingBri]

You need to draw a very firm line with this guy. You need to politely tell him that you will not date him and that he is not welcome to touch you.

You also need to make this point in writing in an office memo and keep it on file.

I'm not kidding. It's critical that you document this.

Dear X:

In response to your recent actions concerning me, I wish to make it clear that I would not consider it appropriate to date you as my boss, and that furthermore, your physical contact with me is unwelcome.

I enjoy working at Y, and consider you a fair and reasonable boss. I know you will therefore respect my wishes.

Sincerely,

Jade

 

[circe!]

Do you work for Toyota?

And is his name John?

Seriously, let him know very firmly that you do not appreciate his behavior. You are being sexually harrassed. If he doesn't quit it, speak to his supervisor. If this does not resolve the situation, or if his behavior turns hostile, get a good attorney.

You have the law on your side here, and the worst that could happen is that you'll be awarded a nice settlement.

 

[Wizard]

I would tell him about it....sounds like way over the line to me....Way over........

 

[Xander]

Sounds way over the line to me too

jade, you need to put your foot down girl. if that doesn't solve the problem...see Circe's post.

 

[KillerMuffin]

It's called sexual harassment and it's against the law. I would suggest that you consult a lawyer, the first consultation is free and you don't have to follow through. You will get good advice on what to do to make the creep cease and desist without putting your job in jeopardy.

 

[Iris]

NO WAY!!!

You are not over reacting in the least. It's your body and your personal space, and you decide who gets to go how far. Even if you came to work every day in a string bikini and then put your hand in his pants, you still have the right to say no. I suggest you say it, and FAST!!

Flirting or talking about sex is no excuse. I flirt too. Anything from an exchange of one-liners to touching someone on the arm and leaving it there a little to long. But, if I'm uncomfortable with how far someone has gone, I'll say so. Nicely, without embarrassing them, but I will say so. I would want to know if I were making someone feel that way, and I have been told before to back off a little by one extremely shy guy. I survived, and he and I actually joke about it now.

So Jade, tell your boss how you feel. He has no legal recourse against you, but if he doesn't stop, you do. He could just be reading you the wrong way and not even know he's offending you. Either way, he needs to know. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Weird Harold]

You need to draw a very firm line with this guy. You need to politely tell him that you will not date him and that he is not welcome to touch you.

You also need to make this point in writing in an office memo and keep it on file.

I'm not kidding. It's critical that you document this.[/i]

DB has some pretty good advice here. If you don't get it in writing, at least make sure that you have witnesses when you tell him to stop.

I don't know the exact legal situation in your location is, so I'll draw on the standards of the military.

At this point what he's doing is flirting.

Once you tell him in front of witnesses or in writing that you don't like his flirting technique, then it becomes harrassment if he continues.

That's a key point. If you haven't told him to stop and given him a chance to mend his ways, then it is much easier for him to claim it's harmless flirting. In some jurisdictions, that's enough to get him acquitted. You only have to tell him once, but you have to be able to prove you told him his attentions are unwanted.

I would use some tact in telling him to keep his hands to himself. Since the law is on your side, there is no need to cruel or threaten him with a lawsuit. You just have to make it clear that you aren't joking.

 

[nitengale]

If there has been unwanted touching done, then it's more than flirting. Aseveral have pointed out, it is sexual harasssment! Don't let it continue! I have been in this position involving a military person, and the outcome was not pretty for him, but it had to stop.

Good luck

 

[Jade]

Wow

Thanks to all who actually read this thread and better yet responded to it.

All of the responses were helpful in one way or another.

WH: As far as witnesses go, all of my co-workers have noticed this behavior.

One of them asked me if I wanted him to go talk to him for me... but I can't figure out if this best thing to do is keep this competely between me and my boss or not.

I know I am being a chicken shit ... most of you seem to feel the same way... that I should ask him to stop.
But that is easier said than done.

I don't want to hurt his feelings. In the end, he's a person. And rejection sucks.

 

[Problem Child]

Jade,

Don't worry about his feelings. From the male standpoint (not that I've ever done what your saying this guy is doing) I think he knows he has crossed the line as to what is acceptable workplace behavior, and he thinks you are going to either give in to him or continue to put up with it.

If you confront him, he has two choices:

1)Either he will be a nice guy and stop it, and probably apologize, or

2)He will continue, in which case he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, and he probably knows it. In that case he's an idiot.

Either way, you have rights in this situation. I would bet he's not willing to lose his job to keep playing these games with you.

 

[nitengale]

This may be helpful...

I apologize for the length of this post, but there is some useful information here, that may be helpful to some.

**Do not give up a sexual harassment case just because what happened took place a while ago, especially if you are afraid that it will happen to you or someone else.

**The prime ingredient in sexual harassment is that the advances are unwanted and not consensual


The law makes it clear that sexual harassment is definitely not acceptable. (laws do vary from state to state on specifics)

Sexual harassment is unwelcome behavior of a sexual nature. It is not about fun or friendship – it is about the abuse of power. Since there is no single definition, the test is how the recipient feels about the behavior. The vast majority of complaints of sexual harassment have been by women against men - it has been estimated that 50% of women in employment are affected by such harassment. It does not only happen to women in offices or those employed with large groups of men, but to women in every occupation, of every age group, and from every community. Sexual harassment can take many forms.

Verbal
·Comments about appearance, body or clothes
·Indecent remarks
·Questions or comments about your sex life
·Requests for sexual favors
·Sexual demands made by someone of the opposite sex, or by someone of your own sex
·Promises or threats concerning a person’s employment conditions in return for sexual favors
Non-verbal
·Looking or staring at a person’s body
·Display of sexually explicit material such as calendars, pin-ups or magazines
Physical
·Physically touching, pinching, caressing, kissing or hugging
·Sexual assault
·Rape

Confront the harasser

If you do this verbally, speak up straight away, or practice what you are going to say first. You might want to ask one of your colleagues, or your union representative, someone you feel you can trust, to accompany you to give you moral support. If necessary, they could also act as a witness. Speak clearly and slowly, maintaining direct eye contact. Describe the behavior, its effect on you, and that you want it to stop. Ignore any attempts to trivialize or dismiss what you say. Do not smile or apologies; this will undermine your complaint. When you have finished what you want to say, walk away: the less you say, the more powerful you will be.
If you feel you cannot face the harasser, you might prefer to write to them to explain that their behavior is making you feels uncomfortable, angry or belittled, and that you want it to stop. Let them know that you will take the matter further if they carry on. It is useful to keep a copy of the letter.

Keep a diary of incidents

Note down all the behavior that offends you in a diary. Record the date, time and place and the names of any other people who are there. This will help you to remember details if you have to make a complaint. If the harassment is affecting your health, causing symptoms of stress or depression, for example, go to see your doctor

Make a complaint

Find out if your company has a sexual harassment policy or grievance procedure. Decide whether your complaint should be formal or informal.

Seek advice Approach someone you trust in management for support, such as your personnel department or manager. Whomever you report to must make certain that your complaint is investigated and that something is done about it. Make a record of the date you complained about the harassment, which you spoke to, what was said and what action was agreed on. This will be important if you decide later that you want to go to an employment hearing (if they have this at your place of employment). If you cannot follow any of these options, or if you are not satisfied by them, you could take your case to court.

Remember

It is not your fault – you are not responsible for the behavior of the harasser.



[Edited by nitengale on 04-22-2001 at 07:28 PM]

 

[circe!]

Love your typo...

"Keep a dairy of incidents"

MOOOOOOOO!

 

[nitengale]

Re: Love your typo...

"Keep a dairy of incidents"

MOOOOOOOO!

It's all this Mad Cow stuff....I get so confused

 

[Weird Harold]

Print out Nitengale's thesis. It's the best explanation of what sexual harrasment is and what to do about it I've ever seen.

WH: As far as witnesses go, all of my co-workers have noticed this behavior.

One of them asked me if I wanted him to go talk to him for me... but I can't figure out if this best thing to do is keep this competely between me and my boss or not.
...
I don't want to hurt his feelings. In the end, he's a person. And rejection sucks.

Rejection does hurt, but it's no excuse for letting him get away with sexual harrassment. This isn't about his feeling, it's about your feelings! You have a right to a workplace you are comfortable in. Please don't let him continue.

Take your coworker up on his offer for starters.

 

[nitengale]

Print out Nitengale's thesis. It's the best explanation of what sexual harrasment is and what to do about it I've ever seen.

Thanks WH. This is one topic I feel strongly about. NO ONE, male or female, should have to put up with crap like this.

 

[Coggie]

Balanced view?

There's some great intelligent advice in this thread, Nightingale's post in particular is excellent.

However, as an employer with female staff, and a guy with a flirtatious nature, I think it's important someone (me) stated the possibility that the boss actually doesn't realise what he's doing.

That may seem unlikely to many but, believe me, it can happen, guys in "work flirt" mode can be pretty thick skinned. Please note I in no way condone the action, I'm playing Devil's Advocate.

Nobody should have to put up with this type of behaviour from their boss however and it is clearly down to the employer to know the law and more besides. He has a duty to protect his staff from this in fact.

I'm just striking a note of caution, before we hang draw and quarter the guy I think Jade should make sure he is clear on her view of his actions.

DB, as ever, has a balanced view although I'm not sure I'd put it in writing at this stage, and I'd leave out the reference to dating if writing as a self-preservation issue but I wouldn't if handled face to face.

Jade: to protect your job and the general environment there you must do something, don't let it carry on. I personally would suggest you talk to him yourself if you can find the courage.

Involving someone else may be counter productive but ultimately you have done nothing to deserve his continued unwelcome advances.

Good luck Jade, Iceland's pretty cold )

 

[nitengale]

Re: Balanced view?

However, as an employer with female staff, and a guy with a flirtatious nature, I think it's important someone (me) stated the possibility that the boss actually doesn't realise what he's doing.

Coggie....

I respect your opinion, but do you really think with as big as sexual harassment is in the media and workforce, this BOSS doesn't know?? I dunno, I serously question that. He seems a wee bit too forward in his behavior and his direct sexual commenst about Jade not "getting any". I'd be willing to bet he knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

 

[DarlingBri]

Hmmm.

I bet he knows he's hitting on her, touching her, and teasing her. However, it is possible he doesn't realise this constitutes sexual harassment.

In defence of differing perceptions of this subject, sexual harassment is not nearly as widely covered by the media in the UK as it is in the US. We've also yet to have a really major financial penalty levied against an offender.

The biggest one I can recall is something like £125,000 to a female officer in the Metropolitan Police. Its just not that noteworthy, and we don't do that multi-million-dollar compensation thing here.

We're currently far more concerned with racial harassment in the workforce.

 

[Coggie]

Re: Re: Balanced view?

but do you really think.......

I think he knows, I'm with you really but in all fairness I just thought someone should state the alternative possibility that's all.

I am from the UK, we English have an over developed sense of fair play. <g>

 

[nitengale]

Ok, I'm not sure where Jade lives, so I might have to take a few steps back. Thanks Bri for that insight. I guess I was assuming Jade was here in the states.

 

[Jade]

Texas actually