Am I doing the right thing?

[1stClassNiceGuy]

There is this girl I work with.. she's very sweet, caring, fun and awful damn cute. Needless to say, I like this girl... alot... and I know she feels the same That end of things is simple, and obvious.

However, there is a problem... she has a daughter (No, that isn't the problem, her baby is cute as can be) with this guy who has, for the better part of their relationship, been an independable, verbally and mentally abusive ass to her. She is basically afraid of him, of the mean things he might say when she tells him its over (which she wants to do, and knows she has to). She -does-, however, still want him to be a part of her baby's life, as she doesn't want her to grow up without a father. The problem with that is she has way too much hope in him... she still wants to believe him when he says he's going to pick her up on a certain day, or that he'll pay the child support... and he almost regularly lets her down. Just today I sat with her at work as she cried for over an hour out of frustration. Its as if he pretends to care just enough to give her hope, and apologizes when he lets her down, using work as an excuse. For example, he couldn't pick her up today, because he had work tomorrow and couldn't find a babysitter... while that sounds like a valid excuse... he didn't bother to tell her this, and instead failed to show up to pick up his daughter, and went out drinking at an annual campground party they have in my area this time of year. A party that she had planned to go to for weeks (In fact, him picking up the baby for her was part of this plan). Between the baby and work, she hardly EVER gets out, and when she gets the chance, he always comes up with something and gets her stuck with the child he is supposed to be equally responsible for. When she tries to say something to him about it, he gets angry with her, acts mean to her, and pretty much makes HER feel like the problem... and she starts crying all over again.

Now, leading into my question (see topic)..

Thus far I have tried to just be a friend. I haven't talked down on her ex, nor have I tried to push her into anything with me. I've tried to not get caught in the middle of this, and she knows it. I care greatly about this girl, and it kills me to see this happening to her, as I strongly believe she just doesn't deserve it. I want to save her, but I know if I step in, I could make things worse... which leaves me with this powerless feeling, and I hate it, its frustrating as hell.

At the same time, I don't want her to think I'm just stepping aside because I don't care enough. I told her basically how I felt, and made it clear that I didn't hold any type of obligations or expectations of her. If she doesn't feel comfortable dating because this guy has made her too afraid of being hurt... then I can accept that, and I'll give her all the time she needs (Even if its indefinate)... and she seems to understand that...but I can't help shake this question in my mind...

Am I doing the right thing?

 

[flawed_ethics]

I know nothing about relationships, having bombed every one of mine. I would think the best you can do is let her know that you'll be there whenever she needs you. It's important she knows that.

From what you've written, it sounds like you've already done that. She has a degree of trust in you.

Unfortunately, I think you must not force the situation ahead. If you spark the change, whether it was necessary or not, she will transfer the source of her worries from what her ex has done to you. The two of you will be ripe for turbulance in your freindship then. You can't have that.

-She- needs to take the first step and deal with her ex first. What's more, she needs to realize this on her own. And when she does, she'll need you to be there not just for her but her daughter too.

Just my thoughts.

(So yeah, you've been doing the right thing.)

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

Clarification...

"Stuck with the baby" was a poor choice of words... She's a good mother, and loves her child to death. But as we all do, she needs a break sometimes, and she wants the father of her child to accept the responsibility as she has.

Honestly, I only see him doing to his daughter in the future what he does to this girl now... but at the same time I try to respect what she wants... even if I can't agree with it.

 

[SweetErika]

Yes, you're doing the right thing, and I'm sure you know that.
If she's smart, she'll realize how different you are and well you're treating her.

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

I know nothing about relationships, having bombed every one of mine. I would think the best you can do is let her know that you'll be there whenever she needs you. It's important she knows that.

From what you've written, it sounds like you've already done that. She has a degree of trust in you.

Unfortunately, I think you must not force the situation ahead. If you spark the change, whether it was necessary or not, she will transfer the source of her worries from what her ex has done to you. The two of you will be ripe for turbulance in your freindship then. You can't have that.

-She- needs to take the first step and deal with her ex first. What's more, she needs to realize this on her own. And when she does, she'll need you to be there not just for her but her daughter too.

Just my thoughts.

(So yeah, you've been doing the right thing.)

I haven't tried to push anything, or tell her what she should do. She already knows what she believes she has to do... but knowing the right thing and doing the right thing are vastly different.

As I said, she is afraid of what he may do or say to her. He has yet to be physically abusive to her, and I doubt he will, but he is known for violent behavior in the past, so it is still a concern.

Thank you for the reassurance.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I think you're doing the right thing by being her friend, but not getting too closely involved. She has a lot of issues to work out before she can be ready to really be with you. Don't forget - she has to be able to give of herself to you. You deserve that. Right now it sounds like she has way too much on her plate to handle anything else.

A couple of suggestions you might want to make as her friend. As the baby's father, he's legally responsible for paying child support. Tell her to talk to a lawyer if he's not doing that. His wages can be garnished if he doesn't pay voluntarily.

Also, it would be a wonderful thing for her if she could find a reliable babysitter. She would be able to get some breathing time for herself without having to rely on the unreliable father. She needs to this for herself or she'll go insane.

Personally, I don't think it would be good for her daughter to be around a man who is abusive. Eventually, if not already, he would end up abusing his daughter just as he abuses the mother. Even if he somehow manages to limit his mental and verbal abuse to the mother, the daughter will see it, hear it, and it will affect her for the rest of her life. If a grown woman is afraid of him, just think how a small child will feel.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

Yes, you're doing the right thing, and I'm sure you know that.
If she's smart, she'll realize how different you are and well you're treating her.

Thank you, Erika.. as always, you're right there to lend a hand.

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

Personally, I don't think it would be good for her daughter to be around a man who is abusive. Eventually, if not already, he would end up abusing his daughter just as he abuses the mother. Even if he somehow manages to limit his mental and verbal abuse to the mother, the daughter will see it, hear it, and it will affect her for the rest of her life. If a grown woman is afraid of him, just think how a small child will feel.

Good luck to all of you.

I agree with you on that completely, but I am not sure she is thinking that far ahead on this. Problem is I know I shouldn't be the one to suggest this to her, as she may see this as me pushing to get him out of the way.

As far as the baby goes, if she wants to get out of the house and be with a friend, I'd be more than happy to have her take the baby with us (She's so damned cute! ). Matter of fact, our first date was supposed to be the three of us, but we had to make sudden last minute changes that pushed the time back past the baby's bed time.


They've already been to court. Its not that he doesn't pay at all, its that he won't just send it... he makes her come get it from him. Unless she says something to him, he won't mention it at all.

 

[AngelicAnguish]

Have you suggested therapy for her, or speaking to someone in a position to council survivors of abuse? Then they can say some of the things that have been clearly brought up here and hopefully help her feel better about herself.

Hopefully everything works for the best!

 

[phoenix1224]

Yes... You're doing the best that you can given the situation.

The only thing that hasn't been already been suggested that I can add is that you suggest to her that she go back to Family Court, explain to the judge that the ex isn't paying child support on a regular basis, and request that he/she order it to be taken directly out of his paycheck... At least then she'll be pretty much assured that she'll get it.

 

[5pintshefound]

Yes... You're doing the best that you can given the situation.

The only thing that hasn't been already been suggested that I can add is that you suggest to her that she go back to Family Court, explain to the judge that the ex isn't paying child support on a regular basis, and request that he/she order it to be taken directly out of his paycheck... At least then she'll be pretty much assured that she'll get it.

excellent point..
also, depending on the state, there are advocacy groups that help with things like this.. If she gets any kind of aid {ie, food stamps, wic, housing assisstance etc} the people that provide those services should be able to tell her where to go.. it mgiht not even require going to court.. maybe just a mediator {which is how my sis in law got my brother here in PA} best bet, do a search on line for whatever state, and dead beat dad laws... might be able to say something?! anyway.. just an idea.. good luck! ~5PHF

 

[SweetErika]

excellent point..
also, depending on the state, there are advocacy groups that help with things like this.. If she gets any kind of aid {ie, food stamps, wic, housing assisstance etc} the people that provide those services should be able to tell her where to go.. it mgiht not even require going to court.. maybe just a mediator {which is how my sis in law got my brother here in PA} best bet, do a search on line for whatever state, and dead beat dad laws... might be able to say something?! anyway.. just an idea.. good luck! ~5PHF

I just looked it up because I was curious, and VA's Dept. of Social Services will help anyone to enforce child support. It looks like there are many ways they can help parents get paid on-time, including acting as an intermediary for the payments so he's accountable to the state, not the mother.

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

Thank you all for the advice. Next time I talk to her, I'll see if I can't suggest a few of these ideas. I know she'd rather not have to take him to court again, but sometimes it just can't be helped. Thanks again.

 

[oddity83]

Take her and her kid to the zoo, beach, park or what ever on her day off work, great 1st date kids involved too, worry about finding a sitter if the two of you decide to do something that her kid can't/ shouldn't do. As for her ex, leave him alone enless he starts causung a real in your face problem, as it stands with him only making noise in the background and not doing anything, just let him go, maybe if he sees you playing the dad role he'll at least step up and take care of his kid, if not let him rot in hell for being a dead beat.

 

[Leeleigh]

Have you suggested therapy for her, or speaking to someone in a position to council survivors of abuse? Then they can say some of the things that have been clearly brought up here and hopefully help her feel better about herself.

Hopefully everything works for the best!

I have to agree with this. She does need counseling. She needs to break free of this man. She does not want her child growing up in this environment, because that is what the child will come to expect out of a relationship. Look to see if there is a program in your town that deals with victims of domestic violence and have her speak to a counselor there. They will not only help her with issues dealing with herself, but they will also help her with legal matters, such as getting child support payments up to date. As she starts learning that she has the right to expect better from a man, be there to show her that you are a man who stand by his word and are responsible and trustworthy.

 

[babydoll2u]

I just looked it up because I was curious, and VA's Dept. of Social Services will help anyone to enforce child support. It looks like there are many ways they can help parents get paid on-time, including acting as an intermediary for the payments so he's accountable to the state, not the mother.

the VA will even garnish the vets wages... my child support comes right out of my ex's VA pension check before he even gets it.

 

[Eilan]

I think that you're doing the right thing. Sometimes, when you REALLY want to help someone, it's difficult to sit back and watch what's happening to them, but sometimes it's necessary. Take things slowly.

When I met my husband, I was in the process of divorcing my ex. My daughters were 3 and 10 1/2 months. We did a lot of kid-friendly "dates" back then. When we got engaged, my ex was a little threatened by the attention that my (soon-to-be) husband was giving to the kids. My husband, however, said that he wasn't going to ignore my girls or treat them as anything other than his own children just to spare my ex's feelings. My ex has dealt with it--in the past 3+ years, he's had to. But it does still hurt him to see the kids run to my husband.

Regarding the child-support issue, I agree with pretty much everything that's already been said. As much as your friend hates to do so, she's going to have to go back to court. That money is intended to help her meet her child's needs, and she should not, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, have to beg for it!

Enforcement of child-support orders tends to vary from state to state and from county to county. The money can (and SHOULD) be taken from his check automatically and sent to her via check, direct deposit, or (in some states) an ATM-type card; he'll be required by law to notify the proper authorities if he changes jobs. The support order will likely come under review every couple of years or so; the amount that he pays will be adjusted accordingly. Failing to pay (or get the money to her in a timely manner) can result in his being found to be in contempt of court. In some states, he can lose his driver's license/face jail time.

Good luck to both of you.

 

[silverwhisper]

if she's smart, she'll realize how different you are and well you're treating her.

while i normally agree w/ what erika says, on this, i must respectfully disagree. i've known women who think so little of themselves and fear the future so much that they cannot imagine that their lives could improve by removing people from them.

niceguy, i salute you.

ed

 

[Succulent-one]

She needs all the support and loving friends she can get. And she needs to go after this jerk right away. My only caution is, becareful, because sometimes even though they are not getting along, sometimes a third party interfering will backfire and they will join forces against you just to upset you......this is most likely not the case, but just have your eyes wide open! Good luck

 

[zerimar1231]

You sound like such a great guy, the only advise i have is that you should listen to her, assure her you'll be there for her when she decides to leave this scum bag. I know she doesn't want to leave her kid fatherless, I never had a dad, and i think i'm better off, i would rather have no father than a huge disappoinment for a father.

 

[1stClassNiceGuy]

Thank you all for the advice (And the compliments )

There is nothing really new to tell on this story, neither between her and I or her and her ex, so I suppose in this case, no news is good news.

I did talk to her some about having the courts make him pay -them-, and they give her the money, but they don't do that here in VA anymore. Yes, they can deduct it from his paychecks, but only if he's getting them. Apparently he has enough "connections" that he can get a job under the table if he has to, something he would do (and has done). I understand she can get him in serious trouble for this, but I am not sure if she is willing or able to go through all of that right now. I guess, for the moment, this is a "wait and see" situation.

I don't want to push the issue with her and have her see me as trying to interfere with her life, even though I only mean the best for her.