Am I committing plagiarism or not?

[lovemegood]

I wrote a story (haven't published yet) and when I read it, I realise that the sex scene's plot/flow is a bit similar to a popular story I used to read on lit. On top of that, a few story/dialog lines that are almost the same as the original story.

The original story has been removed from lit as it got published somewhere. I was heavily influenced by that story it seems but I can't think of any better/other way to write it. The resemblance besides the sex scene's plot is maybe like 5-10 sentences in total scattered through the story, not in the exact order. They are different by like a word or two.

The original story has been removed from lit now but still encrypted in my brain I guess lol. Is this still considered plagiarism?

If so, I will have to re-write.

bonus question: What if I Contact the author of the original story and ask for their permission?

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I wrote a story (haven't published yet) and when I read it, I realise that the sex scene's plot/flow is a bit similar to a popular story I used to read on lit. On top of that, a few story/dialog lines that are almost the same as the original story.

The original story has been removed from lit as it got published somewhere. I was heavily influenced by that story it seems but I can't think of any better/other way to write it. The resemblance besides the sex scene's plot is maybe like 5-10 sentences in total scattered through the story, not in the exact order. They are different by like a word or two.

The original story has been removed from lit now but still encrypted in my brain I guess lol. Is this still considered plagiarism?

If so, I will have to re-write.

bonus question: What if I Contact the author of the original story and ask for their permission?

dodge.

but.

why not just give it a quick rehash?

 

[lovemegood]

why not just give it a quick rehash?

Because I'm so so in love with two of the dialog lines. I tried to make it into something else but can't seem to do it except for a word or two. Everything else just sounds super lame. As for the sex plot, it's just how my story goes. Similar genre, similar event. Not on purpose at all, it's just my taste.

I'll give you a hypothetical example (not real lines):

"When you ask me to take you, my beautiful, I want you to scream my name. Fucking scream it."

Would be the original. My version would be:

"When you ask me to take you like the naughty girl you are, I want you to scream my name, my beautiful. Fucking scream it."

 

[geronimo_appleby]

Because I'm so so in love with two of the dialog lines. I tried to make it into something else but can't seem to do it except for a word or two. Everything else just sounds super lame. As for the sex plot, it's just how my story goes. Similar genre, similar event. Not on purpose at all, it's just my taste.

I'll give you a hypothetical example (not real lines):

"When you ask me to take you, my beautiful, I want you to scream my name. Fucking scream it."

Would be the original. My version would be:

"When you ask me to take you like the naughty girl you are, I want you to scream my name, my beautiful. Fucking scream it."

meh.

don't overthink it.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's important to distinguish copyright infringement from plagiarism. They are two different things, and in most cases they exist in different situations.

Plagiarism is when you pass off someone else's work as your own. Typically, plagiarism is an issue with nonfiction and academic work. For instance, if you publish an academic article and you tell the world you have come up with some new idea and it turns out somebody before you came up with that idea, you have committed plagiarism. That's a significant ethical and professional transgression, and you can be punished or fired for it. But it's not typically something that can get you sued or prosecuted.

A key element of plagiarism is the failure to give attribution. When you write an academic article you are perfectly free to use the ideas and work of those that came before you as long as you give attribution.

Copyright infringement is when you copy, reproduce, or in other ways use the original creative expression of someone else's work without getting permission.

Attribution is totally irrelevant with copyright infringement. If you don't get permission, you infringe even if you give attribution.

The crucial concept with copyright is the idea:expression dichotomy. You're free to borrow from other authors' ideas. There's nothing illegal or immoral about it and you can't be sued for it. What you cannot do is use the original creative expression of those ideas. The distinction between ideas and expression can be subtle. The basic concept in copyright is this: you are free to borrow the general ideas of someone else's creative work, but you cannot borrow and use the unique, specific way that they executed the idea. In popular music, for example, nobody owns the exclusive right to basic chord progressions. But if you copy too many of the exact same notes or lyrics from another song, you can get in trouble. A classic case that illustrated the fine line between these two things was the case by the authors of the Chiffon's song "He's So Fine" against George Harrison for his song "My Sweet Lord." Harrison was found liable for copyright infringement n that case. That one was a close call.

For example, there are a gazillion mom-son incest stories where mom sits on son's lap in a car or somewhere. Somebody was the original author of such a story. But no subsequent author owes that original author attribution, or is required to get permission, because it's just an idea. It's not specific enough to be copyrightable expression.

If all you are doing is borrowing a basic story plot or idea, and some very general character ideas, from another author's story, you owe that author nothing. Borrow away, and have a clear conscience.

Some things to do and NOT to do:

1. Don't directly copy any of the words of the original author's story, either narrative or dialogue. Make sure you change them.

2. Don't name the characters the same, or give them exactly the same kinds of personalities.

3. Don't directly copy all the same plot points of the story.

4. Do use the same basic story idea, but give it your own unique and personal twists. Add things to your story that don't exist in the original story.

5. Make the title of the story different.

I'll give you a personal example. I wrote a "mailgirl" story, which is an odd exhibitionist niche story about women who deliver mail in offices in the nude. I read other mailgirl stories before reading mine, and I freely borrowed general ideas from those stories. I chose to provide an introduction where I gave credit to mailgirl story authors that came before me, because I thought it was the fair thing to do, AND I wanted to direct readers to their stories, but I was under no legal or ethical obligation to do so, and I would have faced no consequence if I had not.

 

[lovemegood]

meh.

don't overthink it.

hmm so as long am I'n not literally quoting them, I'm safe?

 

[SimonDoom]

Because I'm so so in love with two of the dialog lines. I tried to make it into something else but can't seem to do it except for a word or two. Everything else just sounds super lame. As for the sex plot, it's just how my story goes. Similar genre, similar event. Not on purpose at all, it's just my taste.

I'll give you a hypothetical example (not real lines):

"When you ask me to take you, my beautiful, I want you to scream my name. Fucking scream it."

Would be the original. My version would be:

"When you ask me to take you like the naughty girl you are, I want you to scream my name, my beautiful. Fucking scream it."

If I were you I would change that just a little bit more. Don't crib from specific lines the other author wrote. Make it your own.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Because I'm so so in love with two of the dialog lines. I tried to make it into something else but can't seem to do it except for a word or two. Everything else just sounds super lame. As for the sex plot, it's just how my story goes. Similar genre, similar event. Not on purpose at all, it's just my taste.

I'll give you a hypothetical example (not real lines):

"When you ask me to take you, my beautiful, I want you to scream my name. Fucking scream it."

Would be the original. My version would be:

"When you ask me to take you like the naughty girl you are, I want you to scream my name, my beautiful. Fucking scream it."

There are only so many ways to write sex scenes. Some resemblance to other writer's lines is inevitable. But you are talking about something more than that, you are saying that you love another writer's dialogue so much that you want to repeat it verbatim, or s close to it as you can.

That seems like flat out plagiarism to me. My suggestion would be to really analyze what it is about those lines that you find compelling and try to replicate the feeling it evoked in your own words, rather than to do a close clone of the original.

What is the essence of the appeal? Her asking? His desire to hear her? Focus there, rather than on the words themselves.

 

[lovemegood]

For example, there are a gazillion mom-son incest stories where mom sits on son's lap in a car or somewhere. Somebody was the original author of such a story. But no subsequent author owes that original author attribution, or is required to get permission, because it's just an idea. It's not specific enough to be copyrightable expression.

If all you are doing is borrowing a basic story plot or idea, and some very general character ideas, from another author's story, you owe that author nothing. Borrow away, and have a clear conscience.

Some things to do and NOT to do:

1. Don't directly copy any of the words of the original author's story, either narrative or dialogue. Make sure you change them.

2. Don't name the characters the same, or give them exactly the same kinds of personalities.

3. Don't directly copy all the same plot points of the story.

4. Do use the same basic story idea, but give it your own unique and personal twists. Add things to your story that don't exist in the original story.

5. Make the title of the story different.

Thank you SO SO much. This is very helpful.

 

[lovemegood]

There are only so many ways to write sex scenes. Some resemblance to other writer's lines is inevitable. But you are talking about something more than that, you are saying that you love another writer's dialogue so much that you want to repeat it verbatim, or s close to it as you can.

That seems like flat out plagiarism to me. My suggestion would be to really analyze what it is about those lines that you find compelling and try to replicate the feeling it evoked in your own words, rather than to do a close clone of the original.

What is the essence of the appeal? Her asking? His desire to hear her? Focus there, rather than on the words themselves.

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the tip. The last thing I want to do is steal someone else's work.

 

[MelissaBaby]

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the tip. The last thing I want to do is steal someone else's work.

Of course not. Think of how proud you will be when you find your line that hits you the way the other author's does.

 

[SimonDoom]

Read the Wikipedia page on the doctrine of Scenes a faire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scènes_à_faire

The concept is this: as an author you cannot own an exclusive right to the elements of a work that are generic or essential to that type of work. The article offers the example of elements in spy stories like Swiss bank accounts, femme fatales, spy gadgets, etc. Nobody owns the rights to these things. They are universal. You are in no trouble if you read a James Bond novel and choose to use some of these things in your own novels like tricked-up sport cars and exploding watches. You are not required to give attribution or credit to Ian Fleming. But be careful, and take some care to be original and different.

Erotica fits very much into this vein. Much of its tropes are universal ideas that nobody owns. Feel free to use them. Just take some effort to do it your way and don't copy lines word by word. It's not that hard. In free erotica at Literotica, if you make even a modest effort you will have no trouble at all.

 

[TadOverdon]

The concept is this: as an author you cannot own an exclusive right to the elements of a work that are generic or essential to that type of work. The article offers the example of elements in spy stories like Swiss bank accounts, femme fatales, spy gadgets, etc.

Or almost all of Star Trek. LOL

In the case of the example the OP provides, I'd definitely rework the dialogue. There's nothing that unusual or specific about what the speaker intends to convey. IMHO.

 

[SimonDoom]

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the tip. The last thing I want to do is steal someone else's work.

True. But remember the concept of stealing someone else's work only makes sense if they have a lawful exclusive property right in that work.

If you see someone using a hammer and you go onto their property and take their hammer, you have stolen from them.

If you see someone using a hammer and you make your own hammer that looks and functions in a similar way, you haven't stolen anything (unless, perhaps, they own a patent in the hammer design). You've done nothing wrong.

 

[HeyAll]

Plaugerism is when you copy something line for line, or close enough.

But every writer steals.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

hmm so as long am I'n not literally quoting them, I'm safe?

who’s gonna hunt you down?

no fucker.

 

[TadOverdon]

Plaugerism is when you copy something line for line, or close enough.

You know if we keep talking about this, the Candyman shows up.

 

[MillieDynamite]

It is inevitable that your work will take on tones of what you read and love. I know I have been influenced by fathers writing, Bram Stokers, Mary Shelly's, Stephen Kings, Earl Stanley Gardner, and all the erotic writers who I read. Little things creep into your writing from what you read.

How many different ways can you describe a kiss? Those parts you have read of some act, the way a character you loved talked, will take root, and you may unintentionally duplicate some line or another.

"Hello," he said, how many times has that been used?

If you like a line, make certain you make it your own before you publish the work with the line. Yes, change it some, keep the jest and flavor and it won't be copyright infringement or plagiarism.

 

[TadOverdon]

I'll tell you an awful thing: sometimes I'll Google a short phrase to make sure that it is common and has been used by many other writers. I want to see hundreds of results from different sources. I do it because I want a character's gesture or a description to read as transparently and familiarly as possible rather than stand out and halt the reader's flow. Does it lean toward cliche? I guess it might.

 

[KeithD]

If you knowingly appropriate phraseology from something and stick close to the wording with intent to display it as your own (sometimes exact phrases are used to purposely connect to the original, which is permissible), then that would be plagiarism. It's moot if it is illegal or violates copyright--it depends on how much is involved and what financial impact it has.

On the example you give, yes, that's very close, but, no, I wouldn't worry about it. It's likely to have zero impact on anything.

On this: "What if I Contact the author of the original story and ask for their permission?" Sure, if you do, and they give permission, you're covered. Of course, who know where they got the phrase from? If the "original" author of the material gives permission, they might also demand a citation, which is very awkward to do in fiction.

 

[rescatooor]

I'd say you are walking a fine line. I wouldn't risk it. Had Stephenie Meyer decided to sue E. L. James for similar use, I'm guessing James would have lost the case.

I'd suggest to be upfront about it. Why not mention the original work and its author by name? Give them the credit. Could just make a short disclaimer at the beginning. Make it an homage instead of an appropriation.

 

[SimonDoom]

Plaugerism is when you copy something line for line, or close enough.

But every writer steals.

No, this is not true at all.

Again, you have to keep plagiarism and copyright infringement separate. They are different things.

If you are an academic, and you write an article and you claim that an important new idea is yours, when you know in fact that someone else came up with the idea, you have committed plagiarism, whether you quote the other person's work line by line or not. You have committed a major ethical breach.

In the context of copyright and fiction, it not necessary to quote line by line to commit infringement. There is no clear, bright-line test. You can commit infringement by borrowing from plot, characters, scenes, etc. The main issue is whether it's specific and original enough to be more than just an idea -- it has to be the unique, original expression of an idea.

And, as I said before, it's not stealing to take others' ideas. It's only stealing if they legitimately can claim an exclusive ownership in something. Generally speaking, nobody has exclusive ownership of ideas (the two exceptions being patents and trade secrets).

I suppose I should add that all this talk has nothing to do with the practical risk one faces of writing Literotica stories. That risk is probably very small, whatever the ethics or the theoretical legal liability. As long as Laurel says it goes, you probably will be fine.

 

[rescatooor]

No, this is not true at all.

Again, you have to keep plagiarism and copyright infringement separate. They are different things.

If you are an academic, and you write an article and you claim that an important new idea is yours, when you know in fact that someone else came up with the idea, you have committed plagiarism, whether you quote the other person's work line by line or not. You have committed a major ethical breach.

In the context of copyright and fiction, it not necessary to quote line by line to commit infringement. There is no clear, bright-line test. You can commit infringement by borrowing from plot, characters, scenes, etc. The main issue is whether it's specific and original enough to be more than just an idea -- it has to be the unique, original expression of an idea.

And, as I said before, it's not stealing to take others' ideas. It's only stealing if they legitimately can claim an exclusive ownership in something. Generally speaking, nobody has exclusive ownership of ideas (the two exceptions being patents and trade secrets).

I suppose I should add that all this talk has nothing to do with the practical risk one faces of writing Literotica stories. That risk is probably very small, whatever the ethics or the theoretical legal liability. As long as Laurel says it goes, you probably will be fine.

To be more specific: it's only plagiarism if you can get caught for it. Fact is that many people come to similar conclusions in science. Just because this happens does not mean anyone was plagiarized. A good paper, however, does show good knowledge of secondary literature so complete omission of a paper with a similar conclusion is more likely to appear dodgy, especially if the rest of the used secondary literature recognize its existence.

Fan fiction could be considered copyright infringement. Sometimes it's a question of where does the author of the original work wish to draw the line. And we won't know until we have seen fan fiction discussed in court. It's just a question of a few years. (I think most recent discussion had to do with Omegaverse but as far as I know, there is no conclusion to it as of yet.)

 

[TadOverdon]

There have been lawsuits.

 

[rescatooor]

There have been lawsuits.

About writing that have not been settled outside of court? I may have missed it. Do tell what to look for.