Allusions of grandeur

[Guest]

All through literature courses, writer's allusions to "great works" or "great authors" are all the rage. It is a work of intricacy to trace through the works to see the references and get the depth of the poems through the allusions.

Alas, I am fairly illiterate and need the Norton's Anthology to illuminate me. With more modern poets I am adrift.

How many of you use literary allusions and do they seem to be "caught" or do they seem to give wind burn to most of your readers?

b

 

[Icingsugar]

Hun, I don't even know what an allusion is. Oh, and Norton's Anthology, what's that?

And you call yourself illiterate? Pfft...

Let's see, a quick flip through the dictionary tells me in vauge etrms that an "allusion" is an "indirect reference". What exactly does that mean? Can anyone give me an example of that?

 

[Rybka]

All through literature courses, writer's allusions to "great works" or "great authors" are all the rage. It is a work of intricacy to trace through the works to see the references and get the depth of the poems through the allusions.

Alas, I am fairly illiterate and need the Norton's Anthology to illuminate me. With more modern poets I am adrift.

How many of you use literary allusions and do they seem to be "caught" or do they seem to give wind burn to most of your readers?

b

If you are writing for the average Lierotica readers they might not even understand "wind burn". Get much beyond "cunt, cock, fuck" and you begin to lose many of them.

Regards, Rybka

 

[jthserra]

I try to pick up on

allusion, etc. but have found my 18 year old son will find so much more than I do. With some poets I am hopeless and have to just read and enjoy the language, phrasing, and the most apparant meaning. With other poets it seems easy to see everything, or at least I think so...


jim

 

[Guest]

e.g.

Hun, I don't even know what an allusion is. Oh, and Norton's Anthology, what's that?

And you call yourself illiterate? Pfft...

Let's see, a quick flip through the dictionary tells me in vauge etrms that an "allusion" is an "indirect reference". What exactly does that mean? Can anyone give me an example of that?

LOL... my apologies Icing... if you didn't go to college in the US you wouldn't be familiar with the tomes that gave me biceps in college.

An allusion could be as oblique as using a phrase from a famous work that pulls in all the weight of that work into the new work.

It could be as definite as using "whale" imagery to evoke the thoughts of Jonah. The Bible is frequently alluded to in other works.

Mind you, I am a lowly engineer- I am sure that someone else more learned than me has better examples.

I asked this question because of the recent poem that referred to two famous poets- forgive me for not recalling their names- with whom I was unfamiliar- Carlos and another guy. I understood the gist of the poem, but it wasn't until I read about who they were that the impact was full for me.

b

 

[Angeline]

I do it all the time, mainly because bits and pieces of poems are always in my head. I'll write a line and it'll remind me of a line from something else or just generally of a poem or poet. Sometimes I'll do it as a form of tribute because the poem I'm writing is--in my mind--derived from another poem. And sometimes it's just a wordplay thing. I have no idea whether anyone catches them or not--I obscure them sometimes but usually not. No one has ever said "oh I caught your allusion to Sailing to Byzantium" or some such. I pick up on them in others' poems though.

And I love my old Norton Anthology though when I crack it open I'm usually embarrassed by my stupidly naive 20-year-old comments written in the margings.

P.S. Just saw your post B. and grinned--do you mean jthserra's allusion to William Carlos Williams' "Plums" in his New Jersey poem the other day? I loved that and mentioned it in my public comment.

 

[jthserra]

I will

often throw in little teases, kind of an homage. Bits of poems... etc. The Ghosts of North Beach I nodded to several of the beat poets hinting at some of their poems and titles. I am not sure how many people pick up on these teases (Angeline has mentioned it in some comments to me).

 

[Angeline]

Re: I will

often throw in little teases, kind of an homage. Bits of poems... etc. The Ghosts of North Beach I nodded to several of the beat poets hinting at some of their poems and titles. I am not sure how many people pick up on these teases (Angeline has mentioned it in some comments to me).

 

[jthserra]

My poem "Forgive Me Patterson..."

it was William Carlos Williams and Allen Ginsberg. Both grew up in Patterson. I marvel at the thought of two such poetic giants coming from that otherwise, seemingly nondescript city...

 

[Icingsugar]

Ahaaa...

's beginning to get the point. I tend to do that now and then too, but the references are almost always too vauge and far-fetched, as well as based on too much off-centre pop culture for anyone but the few people who really know me to get it.

Then I usually twist it around another notch to fit the poem better, and all chance of recognition is lost, even for me.

 

[Guest]

Re: My poem "Forgive Me Patterson..."

it was William Carlos Williams and Allen Ginsberg. Both grew up in Patterson. I marvel at the thought of two such poetic giants coming from that otherwise, seemingly nondescript city...

mea culpa mea culpa mea culpa

i did read back through the recent poems thread to find the poem and even cruised your page looking for it, but was too distracted, i guess. please forgive me.

and Angeline, your post was the reason that i finally clued in. thanks! you're a jewel. i'll keep copying your notes.

b

 

[jthserra]

LOL... Forgiven...

no forgiveness is needed. I tried to be a little obtuse with the names, to make you look a little more. The William Carlos was a little more obvious than Allen. I am glad you took the time to catch those nuances...

jim

 

[Angeline]

Re: Re: My poem "Forgive Me Patterson..."

mea culpa mea culpa mea culpa

i did read back through the recent poems thread to find the poem and even cruised your page looking for it, but was too distracted, i guess. please forgive me.

and Angeline, your post was the reason that i finally clued in. thanks! you're a jewel. i'll keep copying your notes.

b

Thank you! (I bet I miss twice as many as I catch though. I got that particular poem fairly easily though cause I'm a Joisey girl--though *not* from Patterson!)

 

[Maria2394]

poems though.

And I love my old Norton Anthology though when I crack it open I'm usually embarrassed by my stupidly naive 20-year-old comments written in the margings.

[/B]

dear angeline
just read this and had to smile..mine is about a foot to my left, dog eared and all noted up..I wouldnt trade it for the world

thanks for making me feel good about that old book

 

[Guest]

potential energy!

dear angeline
just read this and had to smile..mine is about a foot to my left, dog eared and all noted up..I wouldnt trade it for the world

thanks for making me feel good about that old book

*doh*

Maria, you are so much smarter than me. Mine are precariously balanced on the credenza on my desk. They have done me bodily damage several times, but like the creature of habit that I am I keep putting them back open.

I kinda look forward to seeing to which page they fall open. Story spinner with danger added.

b

 

[The_Fool]

I am a functional illiterate so I can't read Norton's Anthologies....

I can drink Scotch though...Does that count?

 

[jthserra]

I never...

bought Norton's... it always seemed so expensive. Instead I have gone out and purchased poetry book after poetry book after poetry book. Talk about voodoo economics...

 

[Guest]

bang for the buck

I own several tomes of my favorite poets, but, to be honest, I usually grab Norton's when I want to look up a favorite. It is easier to find the particular lines and I appreciate the commentary.

b