Allahu Akbar! Would YOU be nervous getting on that plane?

[Roxanne Appleby]

So, here's "the rest of the story." Would you be nervous? Would you cheerfully get on the airplane, and chide any nervous fellow passengers for caving into "Islamaphobia?" Would you feel guilty for being afraid?

Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Six bearded imams shouted out those words while offering evening prayers as they and 141 other passengers waited at the gate for their flight out of Minneapolis International Airport. It was three days before Thanksgiving.

After boarding, they did not take their assigned seats but dispersed to seats in the first row of first class, in the midcabin exit rows and in the rear -- the exact configuration of the 9/11 execution teams. The head of the group, seated closest to the cockpit, and two others asked for a seatbelt extension, kept on board for obese people. A heavy metal buckle at the end of a long strap, it can easily be used as a lethal weapon. The three men rolled them up and placed them on the floor under their seats. A frightened Arabic-speaking passenger pulled aside a crew member and translated the imams' suspicious conversations, which included angry denunciations of Americans, furious grumblings about U.S. foreign policy, Osama Bin Laden and "killing Saddam."

Yet another alarmed passenger who frequently travels to the Middle East described a conversation with one of the men. The 31-year-old Egyptian imam expressed fundamentalist Muslim views, and stated the he would go to whatever measures necessary to obey all the tenets set out in the Koran.

Personally, I would be scared to death, and feel perfectly reasonable about it. If these idiots are that arrogant or oblivious to the understandable sensibilities of those in their host country, why should we expend a single ounce of "sensitivity" feeling bad about it?

Oh, and it was not obliviousness. These were sophisticated operators, experienced travelers fresh from attending a conference of the North American Imams Federation, featuring discussions on "Imams and Politics" and "Imams and the Media." When they pierced the normally quiet hum of a passenger waiting area with shouts of "Allahu Akbar" and deliberately engaged in terrorist-associated behavior that was sure to trigger suspicion and scare the hell out of their fellow passengers, they knew exactly what they were doing.

And I'm supposed to feel quilty about finding this very scary? You've got to be kidding.

 

[damppanties]

What I want to know is, how did they get that far without being taken in for questioning? Asking for seatbelt extensions and rolling them and putting them on the floor below their seats? Please! They were allowed to do that?

 

[neonlyte]

Good Lord Rox! I'm nervous about getting on any plane. As a slight claustraphobe I want a window seat, then worry about a 'big person' sitting next to me. How I'm Going to get Past Them in an Emergency. I don't have time to worry about the guy chanting from the Koran, or the shady looking character wearing an overcoat in mid-summer. By the way, does anyone know if they check under the hats of Hasidic travellers?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

BTW, I was reluctant to post this for the obvious reasons. My purpose is not to incite hatred or fear of Islam or anyone else. Here's why I did post it:

I hate being manipulated, and the maliciously incomplete reporting of this story has been nothing but that since day one.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Depends. If they were clean shaven, I wouldn't get on the plane.

Otherwise I'd only get on if I could sit next to them to keep an eye on them. And Allah help them if they tried anything...

 

[R. Richard]

I think that you people are Islamophobic. Not only would I have welcomed the Imams on board, I would have even showed them how to use the seat belt extension as a deadly weapon. [I am talking here practical demonstration, I am an expert user.] I aint afraid to hula with Akbar.

 

[Liar]

Hmm. If they were just excersising freedom of expression and religion, they were being awfully ignorant if they think they wouldn't scare people and cause trouble. No sense of decorum whatsoever.

So if they knew exactly what they were doing...what were they doing?

My first thought was that if I was a terrorist, I'd try to look conspicious. On the other hand, acting like that would be useful for a decoy. Act fanatic, get thrown off the plane, and nobody will notice the other five guys in suit and tie.

What happend with that plane, by the way? Did it take off and land safe and sound? Did the arab guys get arrested and secorted off before start? I assume nothing blew up, or we'd have heard.

 

[neonlyte]

BTW, I was reluctant to post this for the obvious reasons. My purpose is not to incite hatred or fear of Islam or anyone else. Here's why I did post it:

I hate being manipulated, and the maliciously incomplete reporting of this story has been nothing but that since day one. The attitude has been, just accept your guilt, sit down, and shut up, you ignorant dolts.

No.

Right... now you've confused me

The attitude has been, just accept your guilt, sit down, and shut up, you ignorant dolts.

Who are you talking about? I know my response was entirely flippant but I was recently meeting my daughter off a flight and watch a whole train of Hasidic passengers pass from Customs into the terminal building, dressed in long coats and wearing 'trademark' hats and experienced exactly that guilt for thinking badly of them. They 'escape' - if that is the right word - scrutiny because they are Jewish in Hasidic attire, and yet my mind trailed in other directions. And the guilt came, and still I'm less sure if I'd feel more 'comfortable' travelling with them, than with the many Pakistani (and similar nationhood) passengers who share my regular flights between the UK and Portugal. They could be in disguise, but then I've far too fertile an imagination, and just as prone to the manipulation of media organs as anyone else.

I remember after the innocent Menezes was shot and killed in London a week after the July 7th bombings, suggesting on this forum, within an hour of the news surfacing, that the circumstances didn't add up. I was roundly condemmed, the majority thought 'he had it coming'. The media had tuned them to accept the cast of skin, or a lifestyle can mark out the enemy. Are you suggesting we've gone the other way?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

BTW, I was reluctant to post this for the obvious reasons. My purpose is not to incite hatred or fear of Islam or anyone else. Here's why I did post it:

I hate being manipulated, and the maliciously incomplete reporting of this story has been nothing but that since day one. The attitude has been, just accept your guilt, sit down, and shut up, you ignorant dolts.

No.

I have also been following this story and was reluctant to post for the same reasons.

I have read the police reports and witness statement along with the first stories printed and was amazed at how this was originally portrayed in the media.

Personally, I believe this to have been a purposely instigated situation to cause exactly what happen in the media initially. To get us to lower our guard by claiming racist profiling by the airline along with trying to make the other passengers feel as if they had committed some politically incorrect slight against muslims.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

O

Right... now you've confused me

Who are you talking about? I know my response was entirely flippant but I was recently meeting my daughter off a flight and watch a whole train of Hasidic passengers pass from Customs into the terminal building, dressed in long coats and wearing 'trademark' hats and experienced exactly that guilt for thinking badly of them. They 'escape' - if that is the right word - scrutiny because they are Jewish in Hasidic attire, and yet my mind trailed in other directions. And the guilt came, and still I'm less sure if I'd feel more 'comfortable' travelling with them, than with the many Pakistani (and similar nationhood) passengers who share my regular flights between the UK and Portugal. They could be in disguise, but then I've far too fertile an imagination, and just as prone to the manipulation of media organs as anyone else.

I remember after the innocent Menezes was shot and killed in London a week after the July 7th bombings, suggesting on this forum, within an hour of the news surfacing, that the circumstances didn't add up. I was roundly condemmed, the majority thought 'he had it coming'. The media had tuned them to accept the cast of skin, or a lifestyle can mark out the enemy. Are you suggesting we've gone the other way?

Oh no, Neon, I was not referring to you at all. In fact, I'm going to delete that out of context portion of my post right now. It was not directed at anyone here, just in general at all the "sensitivity" police out there who ensured that the reporting on this story would be so maliciously incomplete.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[neonlyte]

O

Oh no, Neon, I was not referring to you at all. In fact, I'm going to delete that out of context portion of my post right now. It was not directed at anyone here, just in general at all the "sensitivity" police out there who ensured that the reporting on this story would be so maliciously incomplete.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

No offence taken, Rox - I was fairly sure you were not getting at me

These are confusing times, I'm not sure who is the 'enemy' any more. Just to try to keep my head clear, I think all the 'news' I'll listen to, will best come through Lit. If the news is going to be dirty, I'd rather have the dirty news.

 

[shereads]

If I were organizing people to carry out my evil will at the cost of their lives, I'd be looking for the people least likely to be searched. Or finding new methods, like using people who are unaware. So no, I guess I don't worry about my fellow passengers unless someone's acting wierd.

What made me nervous was when they changed the security regulations so that you can bring 'no more than two books of matches' on board.' How many matches does it take?

Or as Jon Stewart pointed out, "Let's assume they chose to allow two books of matches because it takes three to light the shoe. So my friend and I each take two. Now we have one extra."

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

If I were organizing people to carry out my evil will at the cost of their lives, I'd be looking for the people least likely to be searched. Or finding new methods, like using people who are unaware. So no, I guess I don't worry about my fellow passengers unless someone's acting wierd.

What made me nervous was when they changed the security regulations so that you can bring 'no more than two books of matches' on board.' How many matches does it take?

Or as Jon Stewart pointed out, "Let's assume they chose to allow two books of matches because it takes three to light the shoe. So my friend and I each take two. Now we have one extra."

So you would have felt not a bit nervous getting on that plane, and you think that if anyone would feel nervous then it's their problem, and they should be more open minded?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

So does this mean I can bring my life size crucifix on board or will the nails in Christ's hands and feet beconsidered possible weapons?

 

[Aurora Black]

Damn it, now I want shish kebab.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

So does this mean I can bring my life size crucifix on board or will the nails in Christ's hands and feet beconsidered possible weapons?

They have to be dull.

 

[neonlyte]

So does this mean I can bring my life size crucifix on board or will the nails in Christ's hands and feet beconsidered possible weapons?

Not on a British Airways plane, unless it is concealed under your clothing. BA recently sacked a stewardess for openly wearing a crucifix.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

They have to be dull.

I'll file them down.


ok, so here is one of my rare political rants.

This is bullshit. Pure bullshit. This handful of people give the rest of their fellow islam or whatever the fuck a bad name.
If someone where to stop them or make a commotion you would hear the cries of discrimination...its crap. Pretensious crap.
I don't give who a fuck you are and what you believe....you know the rules, stop trying to terrorize other folks, fuck up the system and just be plain fucking ignorant.

Done.

 

[elsol]

Are you kidding me?!?

List the number of situation you're allowed to 'whup-somsummabitches'ass' and other people will say "Oh... he tripped... a lot!"

I am SOOOOO on that plane!!!

And I'm looking at them fingering my cross and picture of the Pope while whispering "Take back the holy city... Crusade! Crusade!"

 

[Bishonen]

So, basically, these guys were real live trolls, shouting and behaving like assholes just to provoke people into hating and fearing them, just so they could point fingers and say "hey, you can't hate me for using the freedom of religion and freedom of expression that you yourself praise so highly - that's discriminating!"..?

Would a group of business suit-dressed white men in cowboy hats shouting the same thing and behaving exactly the same way, would have scared you as much?

Or are muslims only scary if they're Middle Eastern?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

So, basically, these guys were real live trolls, shouting and behaving like assholes just to provoke people into hating and fearing them, just so they could point fingers and say "hey, you can't hate me for using the freedom of religion and freedom of expression that you yourself praise so highly - that's discriminating!"..?

Would a group of business suit-dressed white men in cowboy hats shouting the same thing and behaving exactly the same way, would have scared you as much?

Or are muslims only scary if they're Middle Eastern?

"Real live trolls" - very apt analogy. How come all the reporting read so differently? Reporters wrote the stories that fit their PC worldviews, not the one that described real live trolls.

As for your other point, context matters. Events have a certain context. Are you saying they do not?

Would you have been nervous getting on that airplane? Would you feel guilty about it? Do you think it would have been more rational to feel nervous getting on that airplane than on one with a half a dozen business-suited white guys in cowboy hats acting boorishly and making loud "Praise the Lord" kind of noises. (Nervous I said, not irritated.)

 

[deliciously_naughty]

No and here's why. My husband is Indian, and has should length curly (usually unruly) black hair. He gets searched so fucking often in airports that we have to plan for it to happen when making plans.

If white people were muttering about politics, no one would look twice. If it were a group of Franscican monks others might have bowed their heads while they were praying out of respect or joined in the conversation. Because they were brown, because they were "other" they were victimized.

Beyond that, a rep from the FBI told the airline that it was okay to let them on the plane and they still wouldn't.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I'll file them down.


ok, so here is one of my rare political rants.

This is bullshit. Pure bullshit. This handful of people give the rest of their fellow islam or whatever the fuck a bad name.
If someone where to stop them or make a commotion you would hear the cries of discrimination...its crap. Pretensious crap.
I don't give who a fuck you are and what you believe....you know the rules, stop trying to terrorize other folks, fuck up the system and just be plain fucking ignorant.

Done.

Here, here!

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

No and here's why. My husband is Indian, and has should length curly (usually unruly) black hair. He gets searched so fucking often in airports that we have to plan for it to happen when making plans.

If white people were muttering about politics, no one would look twice. If it were a group of Franscican monks others might have bowed their heads while they were praying out of respect or joined in the conversation. Because they were brown, because they were "other" they were victimized.

Beyond that, a rep from the FBI told the airline that it was okay to let them on the plane and they still wouldn't.

DN, are you saying, "No, I would not have been nervous getting on that airplane given those circumstances, and neither should you have been?"

Let me ask you this: Do you think these guys were completely and innocently oblivious to the effect that their unusual actions had on fellow passengers? Or is there a strong possiblity that they were acting as "real life trolls," that is, behaving in a manner deliberately intended to generate a certain reaction - specifically, the reaction they got?

If it were the latter, what does that say about them, about the media who gave nothing but maliciously incomplete reports, and about those who look down on people like me or the passengers on that plane who would be/were afraid?

Events have context. We all know what the context of this one is, and so did they. It's impossible to ignore that.

 

[Bishonen]

Doing my best to guess what their goals were, seeing as I wasn't there...

Those guys were playing on people's fear of muslims by acting out every terrorist cliche they could think of and then some. They wanted people to be scared and annoyed. Judging from your reaction, they succeeded. I'm not saying that I would have walked on that plane with a cheerful heart, and I'm not saying that anyone who was afraid is an idiot.

What I'm interested in knowing is WHY those guys wanted to scare and annoy people. If they had been in their mid-teens, or drunk, or high on something, I wouldn't give it another thought - that would be explanation enough.

But you said that they were

sophisticated operators, experienced travelers fresh from attending a conference of the North American Imams Federation, featuring discussions on "Imams and Politics" and "Imams and the Media."

This is kind of prejudice too, on my part, but I don't usually assoicate grown-up men, especially not SOPHISTICATED grown-up men, with stupid "ha-ha-I-scared-ya!" pranks. So why were they trying to scare the americans?

Could it be because they were fed up with people looking sideways at them, whispering about them behind their backs, and treating them like potential terrorists merely because they happened to come from the same regions as some other known terrorists? Could it be that one of them finally said, in frustration: "Fine! If they're going to treat us like terrorists no matter what we do, let's behave as if we WERE terrorists!"..? Could it be that America is reaping what we've been sowing?

Oh, and as for the ranting christians you mentioned - yeah, they WOULD make me nervous. There IS such a thing as christian terrorists - WHITE christian terrorists! Remember the bomb in Oklahoma? That was a white christian fanatic. Tell me, Roxanne, do you get nervous when you see white men in the street? No? Why not? There IS a risk that the next white man you see in the street is going to bomb a shopping center.

If you think that there's a greater risk that your average arabian immigrant is going to be a terrorist than you think that your average white John Smith might be a homicidal madman, then I think you have just outed yourself as a bigot.