All right, Miss Snooby Pants!

REDWAVE

Urban Jungle Dweller
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Posts
6,013
Regular readers of this board already know Mischka has been hounding me lately to say what country most closely conforms to my ideology. Why she would care, or bother to ask me such a silly question, is beyond me. And I'll probably regret answering at all: I still suspect she's baiting me, and will pounce on whatever answer I give.

However, I've decided to answer anyway, just for the hell of it. The nation which I admire the most, and in the military of which I would have gladly served, and been willing to kill and/or die if necessary, is the early Soviet Union under Lenin and Trotsky, from 1*** to 1923-4 (Lenin's final illness). It ousted the capitalists and landlords from power, and established the rule of the proletariat (urban working class) and the peasantry. It established full equal rights for the many different nationalities within the Soviet Union, in striking contrast to the Tsarist "prison house of nations," in which Great Russian chauvinism ran rampant. It also established equal rights for women, and in particular liberated the women of backward Central Asia (who have since been re-enslaved by the U.S.-backed "mujahadeen" and their successors.) It exposed the hypocrisy of the "Great Powers," by publishing the secret treaties in which they divided the anticipated spoils of victory from World War One. It called for workers' revolution worldwide. As a result, it faced the implacable hostility of the capitalist nations. Fourteen countries, including the U.S., sent troops and war materials in to aid the counterrevolutionary vermin, the Whites. In Churchill's memorable phrase, they sought to "strangle this infant in its cradle." But they failed: Trotsky built up the Red Army virtually from scratch into an effective fighting force, which crushed the counterrevolutionary scum.

The October Revolution and the early Soviet Union are the main beacons of hope, in all of human history, for the oppressed masses who currently groan under capitalist exploitation.

Of course, the betrayal by Stalin, the "gravedigger of the revolution," and the subsequent bureaucratic degeneration of the Soviet Union under the relentless pressure from the capitalist world, is another story entirely . . .
 
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The early Soviet Regime, like all phallanxes and utopian communities, never really have a realistic plan to sustain their system without people like Stalin coming and saying, "Because you have to, that's why!"

If this is your best example, it's also my best example for why the model doesn't work, and will never work.
 
Fair enough. If everyone was like Lenin or Trotsky then Communism would work.

But we're not. So it doesnt. And won't do.
 
Because of trolls you have to say Nineteen Seventeen since the number after 916 is Verboten...

The trick now is to go through the other three and four number combinations...

Easier than tracing IP's, if you have the patience :D !

Mishka's just lonely now that the unholy Liberal Trio is no more...

Go buy a case of Vodka and pretend.

I'd put Mishka on ignore.
 
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I hate to say it, but the First Troll is correct.

Your Utopias will always get commandered by the Tony Sopranos of the world...
 
Tony who?

I don't even watch The Sopranos. I'm a Lexx fan myself. Stanley Tweedle-- he's the man; if he can do it, everyone can!
:p
 
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Red, get rid of human nature and there is hope for the model surviving.

Note to Red, the key part is human nature.
 
Your tel. #'s?

What, are you that desperate for dates, you're publically posting your phone numbers? Lol. Aren't you supposed to put "For a good time, call" first?
 
Redwave,
Now I understand that you believe in the rights of the common man. But think about all the capitalists that died to give you this. If a capitallist works hard for the better good of the community, workers, and country is he still evil in your mind? I will be honest that I don't regularly read your threads but across history many so-call utopian states were made and have fallen and many were built off of the blood of good men.
I am rambling no so I will shut up, but please think about all the people slaughtered in the early days of the USSR. Many were good men and women.
 
Of course, since I'm just punching keys, If I get the second key correct, I probably won't remember it!

***.987.6543
***.853.9275

;)
 
Star

Starblayde said:
Fair enough. If everyone was like Lenin or Trotsky then Communism would work.

But we're not. So it doesnt. And won't do.

But you see it CANT POSSIBLY work........If everyone is equal.....

Then what would compell ANYONE to work hard when he sees his neighbor have an easy occupation?????? After all, they both would earn the same......

What would the incentive be for INVENTIONS and DISCOVERY of new industry/products/ideas........You wouldnt get credit for it.......why exert yourself? There is NO PAYOFF........and please spare me........for the welfare of all.........IT AINT HAPPENING!
 
brokenbrainwave said:
so we, the mindless drones, can be told to wear out seatbelts SIN.

I proudly get ticketed for mine as a sign of protest!

***.224.2248
***.335.3359
 
"Human Nature"

Alright, BBW, we're getting somewhere here. You've gone straight to the last best stand of the defenders of capitalism: the hoary old chestnut about "human nature." As I recall from hearing other people expound it, it goes something like this: "Yes, capitalism sucks, but with human nature being what it is, any system is going to suck just as bad, if not worse, so we might as well stick with the devil we know, rather than trying out some new devil."

Pretty fair synopsis, BBW?
 
Re: "Human Nature"

REDWAVE said:
Yes, capitalism sucks, but with human nature being what it is, any system is going to suck just as bad, if not worse, so we might as well stick with the devil we know, rather than trying out some new devil."

Pretty fair synopsis, BBW?

Capitalism doesn't suck, but its better than communism, and is much less easy to corrupt and exploit, i think.
 
It is human nature for some to try to make more of their situation. Just like it is also true that some will just do what is required to get by.
What is wrong with the person who works harder or smarter getting more than one that just gets by?
 
Interesting..

The German army once called the Soviet Unions army the redwave at one time..
 
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