All at once or chapter by chapter?

[amofiga]

I'm relatively new here and have a question. I currently have only two short stories posted on this site, but have done these sorts of stories in other venues. I've outlined and planned a much more significant story that will require 4-5 chapters of about 20-25 MS Word pages each. I'm currently editing and reviewing Chapter 1, and I wonder if it would be better to submit it and have it posted while still preparing subsequent chapters, or to complete the entire "book" before submitting it. Do readers generally prefer having the entire thing at one time, or are they willing to wait for subsequent chapters? Based on my current rate, it would take about two weeks for each chapter if I work and edit as much as I like.

I have it planned that each chapter would basically complete an episode of the total, but also leave a "hook" for the next chapter. That way, each chapter could stand on its own as a separate "complete" little story, yet provide the foundation for the next. I have some specific ideas that I want to carry though till the end. However there are also events planned for the last chapter that would tie all of the actions and thoughts of the previous characters together into a conclusion that would help explain some issues left open in each chapter.

My feeling is that I would like to do it chapter by chapter so that I don't have to wait too long to submit. However, I don't know what the norm is around here. Suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[sr71plt]

When readers read it and when you write it are two different timings.

There are far too many readers at Lit. with far too diverse an interest set to say that readers generally like this as opposed to that about anything (with some exceptions, of course--if you submit three Lit. pages of material all in one paragraph, I think it's safe to say that readers here generally won't like that).

You can do it either way but the timing of writing it and submitting it are two different issues. If you want to write by committee and be directed by a subset of your readers (it's unlikely all of your readers will agree on one, two, three, etc. directions for you to take) and you don't mind being painted into corners and/or internal contradictions and a rambling, mushy storyline, then you might enjoy starting to post it before you've finished it. If you are interested in producing a coherent story that is your own creation, you might write it all and then post it on whatever schedule you want to.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm relatively new here and have a question. I currently have only two short stories posted on this site, but have done these sorts of stories in other venues. I've outlined and planned a much more significant story that will require 4-5 chapters of about 20-25 MS Word pages each. I'm currently editing and reviewing Chapter 1, and I wonder if it would be better to submit it and have it posted while still preparing subsequent chapters, or to complete the entire "book" before submitting it. Do readers generally prefer having the entire thing at one time, or are they willing to wait for subsequent chapters? Based on my current rate, it would take about two weeks for each chapter if I work and edit as much as I like.

I have it planned that each chapter would basically complete an episode of the total, but also leave a "hook" for the next chapter. That way, each chapter could stand on its own as a separate "complete" little story, yet provide the foundation for the next. I have some specific ideas that I want to carry though till the end. However there are also events planned for the last chapter that would tie all of the actions and thoughts of the previous characters together into a conclusion that would help explain some issues left open in each chapter.

My feeling is that I would like to do it chapter by chapter so that I don't have to wait too long to submit. However, I don't know what the norm is around here. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Feelings arent thoughts, feelings are emotions and sensations like MAD, SAD, GLAD, AFRAID, HORNY, SLEEPY, SICK, TIRED.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm relatively new here and have a question. I currently have only two short stories posted on this site, but have done these sorts of stories in other venues. I've outlined and planned a much more significant story that will require 4-5 chapters of about 20-25 MS Word pages each. I'm currently editing and reviewing Chapter 1, and I wonder if it would be better to submit it and have it posted while still preparing subsequent chapters, or to complete the entire "book" before submitting it. Do readers generally prefer having the entire thing at one time, or are they willing to wait for subsequent chapters? Based on my current rate, it would take about two weeks for each chapter if I work and edit as much as I like.

I have it planned that each chapter would basically complete an episode of the total, but also leave a "hook" for the next chapter. That way, each chapter could stand on its own as a separate "complete" little story, yet provide the foundation for the next. I have some specific ideas that I want to carry though till the end. However there are also events planned for the last chapter that would tie all of the actions and thoughts of the previous characters together into a conclusion that would help explain some issues left open in each chapter.

My feeling is that I would like to do it chapter by chapter so that I don't have to wait too long to submit. However, I don't know what the norm is around here. Suggestions would be appreciated.

That is how I did my series. Each chapter covered a certain event in the timeline and would end with either a bit of a cliffhanger or a hint of what was next.

I did this for 51 installments over about 16 months. for the most part I never went more than a couple of weeks without an installment.

It is good in the sense that the readers look forward to it, and that is what helped keep me focused. If I was writing solely for myself I might have stalled a bit, but knowing people were looking forward to it, helped push me.

Having said that, Pilot makes a good point about making sure you stick to what you want. Over time people will suggest things or even send you e-mails saying "they won;t read anymore if this and that does not happen"

So chapter by chapter works well providing you got your story mapped out and stick to your guns.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

I did this for 51 installments over about 16 months. for the most part I never went more than a couple of weeks without an installment.

On the other hand, I find that I can't work this way. I'm in the middle, now, of a series of stories—14 of which are now on line. I put them up in two separate books, of seven chapters each. Book 1 went up at the end of last April; Book 2 just appeared.

This is not to say that I don't have the story arc thought out at all. I know in general what's going to happen. I just don't always know about some of the details or the side-issues that add richness. And, sometimes, I don't know about major events until they're upon us.

I find that my stories evolve as I write them—and I'm constantly going back to earlier chapters and making adjustments to preserve consistency and to set up events that were in the future, unforeseen not only by my characters but by me as well, when I initially wrote those earlier chapters. I've tried planning things out in detail, but it doesn't work for me; the good ideas come as I'm writing, and not before.

Also, I tend to write sporadically, and I'd hate to be committed to getting another chapter out every so many days or weeks. That would take a lot of the fun out of my writing, I think.

The readers who like my stuff seem pleased, knowing that there are several chapters telling a complete part of the larger story that will arrive on consecutive days. I can slip in a major cliffhanger (See Charlie and Mindy, Book 2, Chapter 6, at the link below, for example.) knowing that readers will not have forgotten what's going on (or worse, forgotten they're even reading something I wrote) when the next installment arrives only a day later.

The bottom line is this: You have to find an arrangement that works for you and for your readers.

 

[3113]

Write the whole story

I think most writers will recommend you write up the whole story before posting it chapter by chapter (and I'm speaking from experience here--I volunteered to step in for an co-write such a story when, surprise, surprise, on of the two authors got bored with it at chapter 4 and bailed). Granted, writing chapter by chapter, posting each as you're finished, is a good motivator for writers to some extent. They get feedback, get excited by posters telling them, "This is hot! I can't wait to find out what happens to...." and keep writing...but as the chapters go on, reader feedback gets shorter and less. So what was keeping you writing vanishes. And now you've got this story that may or may not be working, that may even feel like an albatross. Something you were sorry you started. Or maybe real life is getting in the way. You have to work or deal with health problems.

Too many times, writers end up with stories here of a few or a dozen chapters...unfinished. And that's not fair to the readers who faithfully wait for the next chapter of that story, or who, a year later, find and start the story only to realize, by Chapter 20, that the author went AWOL. It isn't finished and likely never will be. I can't tell you how many times we get posts here asking, "Where did this author go and are they going to finish this story?' or "Can I finish writing this story? The author hasn't been back in two years!"

Writing the entire story before posting it--even if it's only a first draft--does three things. First, it makes sure that you won't leave readers hanging with an unfinished story. Second, it makes sure that you post chapters regularly and don't lose readers. Readers might wait a a week or two for chapter 2 or chapter 3, but if chapter 4 is a month later, and chapter 5 three months later...they're going forget about the story and move on. A complete story allows you to post the chapters regularly so readers can get their daily or weekly fix. Last, it allows you to tinker and adjust earlier chapters to suit later chapters. The plot holds together, and the characters are more well-defined. What do you do, after all, if you're posting a story chapter by chapter and you realize in chapter 10 that your main character isn't' your main character!? It happens. You may need to throw him out and go for the side-kick who is your main character.

Quite a mess and confusing for your readers if you have to take down those ten chapters, re-write, re-post and tell them to re-read them as there's been a major change But if you haven't posted it, yet, only you will know about this little "major" mistake. So, fun as it might be to improvise and post chapters as they come, I think most of us would agree it's not best for the story, the readers, or for you, the writer. It's going for the short-term thrill, on your part, rather than a lasting reward for reader and writer.

 

[estragon]

Couldn't agree more. I tried one series, writing and posting each chapter when completed, and not waiting until I finished. The result was disheartening; people don't stick around. Or maybe it wasn't a good story to begin with, but the last chapter barely broke 500 views.

 

[amofiga]

Couldn't agree more. I tried one series, writing and posting each chapter when completed, and not waiting until I finished. The result was disheartening; people don't stick around. Or maybe it wasn't a good story to begin with, but the last chapter barely broke 500 views.

Thank you all for the input. It sounds more like I should finish it all before submitting in order to make sure that it's what I want to say, and to make sure those that start reading would finish and not wander away. I'll think about it.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

Thank you all for the input. It sounds more like I should finish it all before submitting in order to make sure that it's what I want to say, and to make sure those that start reading would finish and not wander away. I'll think about it.

It can be hard to overcome the desire to get it submitted.

But I even like to put stuff away for a couple of weeks and then reread it before I submit it. You wouldn't believe some of the nonsense I've caught that way. (You would, unfortunately, believe the nonsense I haven't caught that way if you read my stuff—it kinda forces itself on you.)

 

[candlesfyre]

I have posted two stories so far and its the first two chapters of the same story. I wasnt going to do a series but I was so excited about having my first one rate so high I just couldnt pass up the chance to do another one in the same vain.... My second one has more views but hasnt rated as high but then its only been out for a few days so there is still time. I thought my second one was better because in the first one its all sex. in the second one its still all sex but i have started working on the charactor's personality and background some.... I might have done better with all sex and left out the story but I am working on an idea here so...

I have had a lot of people tell me what they do and what they like and want to rp or whatever... :rollseyes: so in some cases it gives you a new idea in some cases its just flat creep (not exactly into the shit fetish or golden shower...now that I googled it to find out what it was....) I have learned many new things here most of wish are good others I could have lived my whole life with out finding out and be blissfully unaware!

I think it is a personal choice I like the idea of reader waiting to read what happens next but I tend to read those stories that are out and ready to read call me a hypocrite if you must!

 

[JackLuis]

As the Grand Poster-Boy for Chapter by Chapter posting, (see "Spreading Seeds", 3 years for 41 chapters), it is not really a good idea. Chapter 1 has ~30,000 READS, Chapter 41 only has ~1,900.

I'm not taking this advice though, I'm doing "Horny Springs Retirees" the same way, but I at least have the whole Plot plotted and know where this one is going, and how it ends.

I am trying to finish one story, "The Interrupted Tale" before I post it, because I want too, call me crazy, everyone else does.

 

[Handley_Page]

I suggest you finish the whole thing, then perhaps feed it out periodically.
"See next week's Thrilling Instalment" ?

 

[amofiga]

It can be hard to overcome the desire to get it submitted.

But I even like to put stuff away for a couple of weeks and then reread it before I submit it. You wouldn't believe some of the nonsense I've caught that way. (You would, unfortunately, believe the nonsense I haven't caught that way if you read my stuff—it kinda forces itself on you.)

Believe me, I do understand. I generally re-read my stuff at least 4-5 times. Yes, there are a lot of typos missed by spell check, but what I find is htat I need to change dialogue and cut out a lot of extraneous material. What sounded good when first written sounds like crap during the third read. Stuff gets added, but I've also found that it's better to cut out a lot of the fat. Sometimes it's better to hit a point in dialogue versus narative or vice versa.

I've previously done mostly short story "letters" for a couple of magazines, but never a longer multi-chapter piece. It is tempting to submit the first chapter immediately, but I've also noticed as I've re-read and re-thought subsequent chapters, and I want to go back and tweak something in chapter 1 to lay a foundation for something later or take out something that I want to wait to introduce.

 

[estragon]

Two quotes close to my heart, from two world-class writers.

Isaac Bashevis Singer: "The wastebasket is the writer's best friend."

Ernest Hemingway: "Every first draft is shit."

 

[sr71plt]

Both nonsense quotes as sweeping generalizations, of course.

Different writers have different rhythms. For some, the first draft is the best. Just because this wasn't so for Singer or Hemingway doesn't make it some universal truism.

Variety is what keeps literature interesting.

 

[PayDay]

Just saying

All at once or GTFO.

I say this because there is zero waiting. We're here for brain sex, some of us can go longer than others, but few can keep 25 story series plots together. Also, it allows a longer work to be condensed, as details do not have to be repeated. People forget, and I generally do not read past a few chapters, knowing other plots exist elsewhere. That is, unless it's a dynamo story. If it's good enough for another chapter, it's good enough to remember your place in it.

But that's just me, and everything everyone else said here is correct.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

Yes, there are a lot of typos missed by spell check, but what I find is htat I need to change dialogue and cut out a lot of extraneous material. What sounded good when first written sounds like crap during the third read. Stuff gets added, but I've also found that it's better to cut out a lot of the fat. Sometimes it's better to hit a point in dialogue versus narative or vice versa.

There are other reasons to let some time pass and then reread. For one, you notice stilted phrasing that didn't seem so when you originally wrote. And, as Mark Twain said, "The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. It’s the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." I flatter myself that I find a few lightning bugs when I put things away and then reread after a decent interval. (I usually wind up with brighter lightning bugs—rarely with lightning.)

 

[Feotakahari]

Myself, I let time pass (or at least finish the last chapter) because once I'm certain what I'm doing, I go back and put in hints that I'm going to do it. This is particularly important for fantasy or sci-fi stories, when I have a character do something that, in earlier drafts, I hadn't foreshadowed as being possible.

 

[estragon]

Both nonsense quotes as sweeping generalizations, of course.

Different writers have different rhythms. For some, the first draft is the best. Just because this wasn't so for Singer or Hemingway doesn't make it some universal truism.

Variety is what keeps literature interesting.

I'll back those two ahead of anybody else on this board.

 

[Ironiclaconic]

All at once is better for the story. But the best thing for the story is to actually write it. If I forced myself to wait until I finished the whole thing I doubt I would ever start. And honestly there is a certain thrill in working without a net. Perfectionism vs. Getting It Done is one of the central trade offs in life.

 

[amofiga]

There are other reasons to let some time pass and then reread. For one, you notice stilted phrasing that didn't seem so when you originally wrote. And, as Mark Twain said, "The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. It’s the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." I flatter myself that I find a few lightning bugs when I put things away and then reread after a decent interval. (I usually wind up with brighter lightning bugs—rarely with lightning.)

Bingo! It is odd how something in your mind doesn't always translate well the first time it comes from your mouth or your fingers. I had an english teacher once who spent many lessons on connotation versus denotation and was very critical of certain word choices depending on the intent of what one said or put on paper. When you first write something, you inherently understand what's in your own head and heart, but the words written don't always say it. You can come back a week or two later, read it as more of a stranger and think, "That's crap. Who the hell would really say that, or at least say it that way?"

 

[Ironiclaconic]

I would emphasize that there is a long history of serialization in writing, from the 19th century Victorian serial to modern serial novels like Harry Potter. Not to mention serial formats like TV shows and comic books. I fully understand those who want to complete the story first, but those who publish before the serial is done have some solid artistic or commericial company in writers like Dickens. Rowling, Gaiman, King, and Martin. It can be done well.

 

[PayDay]

Seriously? Master of the Obvious?

I would emphasize that there is a long history of serialization in writing, from the 19th century Victorian serial to modern serial novels like Harry Potter. Not to mention serial formats like TV shows and comic books. I fully understand those who want to complete the story first, but those who publish before the serial is done have some solid artistic or commericial company in writers like Dickens. Rowling, Gaiman, King, and Martin. It can be done well.

Duh. How else are you supposed to get them to by then next copy, or watch the next episode? Handley Page's idea was of a better vein than this one.

That 'writing without a net' thing sounds like fun, and I'm all for it. The problem is, intent is lost. I've read many a comment of "you ruined the series" or "this doesn't fit" from people, to authors who do just such a thing.

I like this thread, it's s-m-art.

 

[3113]

Apples and Oranges

I fully understand those who want to complete the story first, but those who publish before the serial is done have some solid artistic or commericial company in writers like Dickens. Rowling, Gaiman, King, and Martin. It can be done well.

Dickens (getting paid LOTS and under contract). Rowling (getting paid LOTS and under contract). Gaiman (getting paid LOTS and under contract)....

Need I go on? The point being, you are comparing Apples and Oranges. There is a huge difference between people writing here, not getting paid (incentive only in comments) and not under contract (and so able to walk away from the story if they get bored or or the comments vanish or they have to work at that job to pay the rent), and writers like those you name above who were under contract and, in order to pay the rent (or in Dickens' case, feed ten kids--talk about incentive!) had to keep that serial going. And finish it as it would then be printed up into a best selling book that would keep money coming in--and keep their career going.

Writing to maintain one's multi-million, world famous career is, I suspect, a slightly bigger incentive than writing to get weekly comments like "That was hot!"

There is also a HUGE difference between a well known author who, if he stops cold is not only going to lose his advance and living, end up in court, in the news, etc. (or in Dickens case, having died on "Dodd," end up with a dozen other authors making lots of money by saying that THEY know the ending and trying to finish it as he would)...a huge difference between someone like that an anonymous little porn writer on a site where if they take a month or three too long on getting out the next installment, readers will forget about it and move on.

Which is all to say, that the fact that there are writers who can write a series off the cuff, and have written such series, keeping the story going week by week (like Dickens), doesn't mean that this is the best thing for those here, under these circumstances. Nor does it mean that the entire story was as well done as it might have been if the author had finished it before putting it out, bit by bit.

 

[sr71plt]

I think also that invoking of history requires acknowledgment of differences in context. When Dickens wrote for penny literary magazines, there WERE penny literary magazines, there were a lot fewer writers publishing (proportionally), and the pace of life and the level of "look at me" elements bombarding people in their lives was a lot lower than today. Serialization does still exist, yes. It requires specific talents to pull off well, though. And the death of the literary form linking today with the era of the penny literary magazines featuring serialized, rolling-along stories forever--the TV soap opera--should be signaling something to us.

The changing world is even tearing at what is a short story (defined as a story that can be read in one sitting). The traditional upward limit was 20,000 words. The current mainstream short stories contests have moved that down to 5,000 words (for some), 3,500 words (for most). The historical sense of "one sitting" has been shattered by modern-day realities and by what the mind now can encompass and hold onto from delivery of one segment of a story to the next segment delivery.

As is sometimes noted here, most serialized stories being posted to Lit.--especially those with lengthy periods between chapter posting--steadily lose readership as they roll along (although the ratings tend to go up because the die hard readers tend to be the appreciative readers). This is not necessarily a great way to establish an increasing fan base if this is all you are posting here.

There are readers who enjoy reading these things, so there's no reason not to do them, if you enjoy writing them. Do they help you develop as a writer? Not much. They invite rambling, wordy, undisciplined writing that is easily influenced by committee think and pablum outcomes. (but then, there are some readers who are on this level.)