AH - not a safe space

[NaokoSmith]

ETA: since I started this thread it took off in an unusual direction.

Now I am asking people not to give trolls who are posting in this thread air by attempting to engage in rational dialogue with them. Awwww! I know, if only they would listen for a minute, but trolls are better at talking than at listening.

I am asking anyone who knows a woman who has experienced harassment, and is sorry she had to go through that, to post a rose in this thread.

Please feel free to talk about how harassment happens and how it could be combated too, although try not to feed the trolls.



This thread is different to the usual posts I do. Usually I work to normalise things on AH. (Well, I flirt hard too <snerk>, but a gal’s entitled to a little breakfast … I mean fun.) Usually I write about my housework and baking and my kid - because believe it or not, sex sometimes ends up with one of you having a baby! (*whisper* wear a condom), and more importantly, I believe sex should be part of everyday family life. Not in front of the kids ; when they are tucked up in bed and you have some adult you-time. I think one of the things that makes sex a problem is how we sometimes treat it as if it is some weird amazing special thing. Good sex is amazing and special, however it should not be weird and unusual - just an amazing special part of your great and ordinary life.

Recently this has been a more comfortable place to post. I’m glad new rules were brought in and I think they are working well to keep problematic behaviour at bay. However, I admit I was pleased when a new writer confessed to me recently that she didn't feel AH is a safe space.

Nowhere in the adult world, out on the internet, is a safe space. Even Mumsnet has some b!tchy trolls, I’ve seen things said on there to young women in difficult situations that were just horrible.

In the world of erotic writing, I have heard about male editors who pester women to take them on ostensibly to support their writing, who then engage in sexually explicit messaging and pester the women for photos. Sometimes the women say: “Well, I met him on an erotica site and we’re writing about erotica, maybe that’s to be expected?” I hope the cartoon strip I review in this latest blogpost makes clear that nobody should have to suffer sexual harassment - it is quite irrelevant what context you are in. I edit for a lot of guys and OK, I sometimes flirt a bit by mutual agreement, but my focus is on getting their writing sorted. Can you imagine what any of them would say if I started asking for nude pictures?

(No, no, guys. The stories are great! I just like editing; I really don’t want any nude pictures.)

Although rules against harassment are important, they can often just drive it underground. I believe the best way to combat harassment is to encourage the people it happens to, to tell them their uncomfortable feelings are spot-on, that they can get good editorial support without having to give up naked pictures, for Chrissake, and they should just tell jerks like that to F*ck Off. That’s one reason why I write my blog, to spread around stories and cartoons and video clips that make people feel more confident and stronger about saying what they want - and what they don't want.

LOL, sometimes people did used to pretend on here to newbies that they had to put up a picture of themselves naked in order to post, but would be allowed to send it privately to the Dirty Old Man posting as a special favour, and you would see a pause in the newbie posting while they thought about it! I don’t think we ever got anyone to actually do it. Bad boys! Come up and see me - after I have had breakfast

 

[NOIRTRASH]

AH is now the home of delicate snowflakes and cry-bullies.

 

[lovecraft68]

Nothing anyone here who is female or has a female friend or s/o on here hasn't already figured out.

There are a ton of male posters on these boards who are creepers. Their join date is years pld yet they have zero posts because all they do is look at threads and hit on any female posting.

If said female ignores them or gives them a not interested, many if them become belligerent. Many women here are stalked and harassed behind the scenes and reporting it?

This is what any woman reporting it will get "that is what ignore if for"

The site does not care.

Any woman here who is here to be very flirty-and I am talking beyond what Naoko does which is just fin and games-but I mean showing tits always responding to posts about what they like in bed, basically being a 'good girl' here has tons of friends and attention

If you're a woman here who is here to just chat and enjoy the boards and -gasp- has strong opinions and doesn't want to show tits or role play, this is not a friendly place.

I'd like to say this is limited to erotic sites, but reddit? Gamergate? All but uninhabitable for women.

The internet is a tough place for women who don't want to act the way the guys want them to.

 

[NotWise]

AH is a strange forum in my experience and I've moderated three. There are some friendly and helpful people here, but it isn't a very friendly place.

A substantial amount of the traffic on AH is generated by a group of senior contributors who have been dealing with each other for a long time. They don't like each other or respect each other and their constant exchanges taint the character of the forum.

I don't have the background to say that AH is more or less comfortable for women than anyplace else on the Internet. Naoko, do you see it as being worse than it could or should be? What can the moderators do that they aren't already doing?

 

[HandsInTheDark]

If someone bothers you set ignore. In email, create a block. Anyone being bothered is consenting to being bothered, when it comes to forums. ("Unsafe" is what happens to women in Iran, Kosovo and Afghanistan. On the internet it's an annoyance that can be mitigated).

That said, any male chasing random tail on the Internet is clearly desperate and I'd assume there's a reason for that desperation. My advice is, don't hesitate to block. Don't bother apologizing. On the first obnoxious comment, silently use the tools websites give you to wall off the creeps. If everyone does it the creeps will migrate away.

This problem is especially comic on AH. I don't know about y'all, but I get a few interesting emails from women a month. If you're a male writer and your writing doesn't suck you're already getting enough attention and likely more openings than you can handle. Given that, any guy here who needs to prowl seriously needs both writing and decency lessons.

 

[lovecraft68]

AH is a strange forum in my experience and I've moderated three. There are some friendly and helpful people here, but it isn't a very friendly place.

A substantial amount of the traffic on AH is generated by a group of senior contributors who have been dealing with each other for a long time. They don't like each other or respect each other and their constant exchanges taint the character of the forum.

I don't have the background to say that AH is more or less comfortable for women than anyplace else on the Internet. Naoko, do you see it as being worse than it could or should be? What can the moderators do that they aren't already doing?

The answer is use ignore or leave. That is the words from the top here. There was a huge troll in the GB who harassed several women, some to the point they left. This person was complained about by several people.

Nothing.

But that troll was actually banned here this year, because....they wouldn't shut up about accusing people of being pedophiles so you can harass and bully women here and threaten to rape them, just don't mention underage because its the only rule the site really cares about and even then more on the boards than story side.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

8 years ago AH was Dodge City on payday. We had some real gunslingers here then. Now, seldom is heard a discouraging word, the skies are not cloudy all day, and all get plastic trophies for their farts.

 

[sr71plt]

Does putting an account on ignore also block PMs from that account? If so, that should negate much of the issue. (On a site like this it would be hard to determine the interests of a poster until they were checked--especially if she has an account name like Fkmeallnite, which has been the case of a few posters who have complained here about unwelcome advances.) If ignore doesn't block PMs as well, this probably should be a systems change the Web site could put on the list to deliver "soon."

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Does putting an account on ignore also block PMs?

Easy to test. LC, pm me a few words on how much I hate women. Don't go into detail because I wouldn't expect to receive it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Easy to test. LC, pm me a few words on how much I hate women. Don't go into detail because I wouldn't expect to receive it.

Sure, right after you PM me how you think anyone who has ever penned an incest story is a pedophile and supports pedophilia.

Oh, wait, you can't see this because you've grown weary of me making you look bad, got it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Does putting an account on ignore also block PMs from that account? If so, that should negate much of the issue. (On a site like this it would be hard to determine the interests of a poster until they were checked--especially if she has an account name like Fkmeallnite, which has been the case of a few posters who have complained here about unwelcome advances.) If ignore doesn't block PMs as well, this probably should be a systems change the Web site could put on the list to deliver "soon."

The issue is alts. You could ignore a poster, but if they feel you are ignoring them they can create another alt or use one they already have, then you have to ignore that, but only after you've already received more nastiness from them.

I think in the case of multiple people reporting the same poster-and with proof through saved PM's-that person should be banned.

The fetish mod Chargergirl has gone to laurel several times to ban people who she has repeatedly warned for talking about underage. There's no reason it couldn't be done to people who send threatening, nasty PM.

This thread reminds me of the one Bard started last year where he was upset a female friend of his here left because of repeated rape threats and harassment.

 

[RejectReality]

Yes, the ignore function blocks PMs.

I just ignored myself as Darkniciad, signed in under that ID, and PMd RR.

In addition, the person sending the PM gets no feedback that they've been blocked. The PM simply vanishes into the ether. It isn't hidden -- it's gone. Removing the ignore block after the PM has been sent does not cause it to appear in your inbox.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes, the ignore function blocks PMs.

I just ignored myself as Darkniciad, signed in under that ID, and PMd RR.

In addition, the person sending the PM gets no feedback that they've been blocked. The PM simply vanishes into the ether. It isn't hidden -- it's gone. Removing the ignore block after the PM has been sent does not cause it to appear in your inbox.

You're ignoring yourself? Time to get some help there RR.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, there you go then. There shouldn't be much of a kick about harassment--even if they are coming in in multiple account names. One unwanted PM and whack to that account. Common sense time. This is a porn Web site. It's going to attract some here who hit on other folks sexually. To expect otherwise is spitting in the wind. Anyone who posts here should take responsibility him/herself for doing so with an eye to what the nature of the Web site is that you're posting to.

 

[GforGraham]

I ignore myself all the time, but I persist and end up listening to reason.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, there you go then. There shouldn't be much of a kick about harassment--even if they are coming in in multiple account names. One unwanted PM and whack to that account. Common sense time. This is a porn Web site. It's going to attract some here who hit on other folks sexually. To expect otherwise is spitting in the wind. Anyone who posts here should take responsibility him/herself for doing so with an eye to what the nature of the Web site is that you're posting to.

There's a difference between hitting on someone and "Think you're better than me bitch? I'll hunt you down and..."

You've seen the LW comments people will post here, that's the content many women get here through PM's and that should be intolerable to any site. Should be, but here its entertainment.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, there you go then. There shouldn't be much of a kick about harassment--even if they are coming in in multiple account names. One unwanted PM and whack to that account. Common sense time. This is a porn Web site. It's going to attract some here who hit on other folks sexually. To expect otherwise is spitting in the wind. Anyone who posts here should take responsibility him/herself for doing so with an eye to what the nature of the Web site is that you're posting to.

So what you're saying is the internet version of 'she was begging for it'

She wore a short skirt so she deserved to be harassed or raped.

She is posting on a sex site and should expect to be harassed, bullied, threatened and stalked.

Point proven very nicely Pilot and the sad thing is you yourself are not that type of person at all, yet still think its 'deserved'

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, go soak your head, LC. You're just on another one of your hypocritical rants.

Yes, I advocate everyone take a realistic look at the Web site they are posting to and just not do it if they can't handle it like an adult (which they are supposed to be to be posting there).

You're such a trip. You write to and invite in a demographic that I wouldn't touch with two six-foot Romanians laid head to toe.

Which, by the way, is rather the point here. There are issues and folks welcomed here that I let be (oh, yes, I do--the only time I comment on the adult-child incest interest is when you bring it up) because I recognize this is a big tent and I want my own quirks and fetishes to be tolerated here, so I have to be able to weather those I don't like. I don't expect babysitting. It's supposed to be an adult site, with adults taking responsibility for themselves here.

If you are going to melt emotionally when you are initially hit on when you have mechanisms to whack that flat--and each alt that does it too, if necessary--you aren't emotionally adult enough to be here.

Lord knows, I've had to manage constant personal harassment on this forum--because you've been here for six years.

 

[glynndah]

This is why I rarely stop by here anymore.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

In addition, the person sending the PM gets no feedback that they've been blocked. The PM simply vanishes into the ether. It isn't hidden -- it's gone. Removing the ignore block after the PM has been sent does not cause it to appear in your inbox.

That's the ideal way. If they get told it failed they'll start banging on things and looking for other ways to interact. If they just wait awhile for a response and don't get one, eventually they get bored and move off. Total silence is always the best discouragement, far better than a No.

 

[loquere]

The issue is alts. You could ignore a poster, but if they feel you are ignoring them they can create another alt or use one they already have, then you have to ignore that, but only after you've already received more nastiness from them.

I think in the case of multiple people reporting the same poster-and with proof through saved PM's-that person should be banned.

The fetish mod Chargergirl has gone to laurel several times to ban people who she has repeatedly warned for talking about underage. There's no reason it couldn't be done to people who send threatening, nasty PM.

This thread reminds me of the one Bard started last year where he was upset a female friend of his here left because of repeated rape threats and harassment.

LC is actually one of my many ALTS.

 

[sr71plt]

That's the ideal way. If they get told it failed they'll start banging on things and looking for other ways to interact. If they just wait awhile for a response and don't get one, eventually they get bored and move off. Total silence is always the best discouragement, far better than a No.

It also could keep them from resorting to alts. They have no idea that your harassment isn't going through in that account name. Many don't require a response as long as they think what they send is being seen.

 

[Edward Teach]

This is why I rarely stop by here anymore.

 

[sr71plt]

This is why I rarely stop by here anymore.

Interesting, since you aren't shy about being on the GB, which is consistently a whole lot more offensive in this vein than the AH has ever been.

 

[glynndah]

Interesting, since you aren't shy about being on the GB, which is consistently a whole lot more offensive in this vein than the AH has ever been.

I expect the GB to be a raucous, sometimes offensive, place. Even so, I very carefully pick and choose what threads I post in and which posters I ignore.

The AH has changed dramatically since I first began writing for this site. I realize all things do change and it's inevitable.