After the punishment....

[snowboundsubbie]

It was brought to my attention tonight that some subs tend to dwell on wrong doings. After Master/Mistress has punished sub/slave it should be time to let go and move on but sub/slave is so upset to have disappointed Master/Mistress that they dwell on it and continue to hold onto that. Feeling sad and sorry for what they have done.

I was thinking that perhaps it is another form of disobedience in that a sub would punish themselves more than Master/Mistress already has. Would this be correct in thinking this way? How would a sub overcome these feelings? A sub works hard at pleasing their Master/Mistress and when they let Them down is the feeling of letting Master/Mistress down worse than the physical punishment? Should a sub just get over it and move on and learn from the experience?

 

[esclave_PP]

Great topic! Well from both angles, as a Mistress to my own slave once the punishment is over, the issue is done, and it is time to move on. No sense in dwelling on it. The punishment should be deterrant enough. Same is true with Master, if I am punished, I am, we discuss it, we're good and we move on and learn from the experience.

Is it disobidience to dwell, in a way yes -- the punishment should be enough. If the Master or Mistress says it is done, time to move on -- there is usually a reason for that.

Thanks for the meaty topic! Looking forward to hearing what others say.

 

[noodleslut]

I'm going to agree on this one...it is simply another type of disobedience in that you chose to punish yourself more than your authority figure choses you to be punished.

To move on is possible. It does take effort though. One good technique is to remember that you are commanded to move on. Then when your mind falls into the sadness mode, redirect and deflect. After a time you find you have moved on.

noodle

 

[Her_liltoy]

I'm guilty of this myself. It truly makes me feel terrible knowing that I've displeased my Domme. More than once she's chastened me about me being "too rough on myself". After one conversation, I was forbidden to speak of my failures. I was instructed to think of them as lessons learned, and to write about what's bothering me, and then let it go. It's not always easy, though.

I never really thought of it as disobeying, I suppose. I'm going to have to rethink that concept, I think. Maybe I'll be able to sooner let go of my mistakes.

 

[snowboundsubbie]

I do not have a Master (wish I did but don't ) but I hate to disappoint people that I look up to. I am very hard on myself to do the right thing and when someone says, oh don't worry it is ok, I still can't move on, I feel bad for days on end. I think I punish myself more than anyone else could. I really believe that a slave would be just as disobedient to Master if s/he didn't move on after the punishment. That seems so strange to me because I would not want to disappoint Master yet I would be by doing something that He has told me to move on from. I hope that made sense. I think I am trying to work through something myself

 

[Shadowsdream]

I do not have a Master (wish I did but don't ) but I hate to disappoint people that I look up to. I am very hard on myself to do the right thing and when someone says, oh don't worry it is ok, I still can't move on, I feel bad for days on end. I think I punish myself more than anyone else could. I really believe that a slave would be just as disobedient to Master if s/he didn't move on after the punishment. That seems so strange to me because I would not want to disappoint Master yet I would be by doing something that He has told me to move on from. I hope that made sense. I think I am trying to work through something myself

This is one of those questions that cannot be simply answered. I believe it is the (crime) itself that should determine if the punishment is enough to remove all guilt.

I am a Domme that believes guilt is a wasted emotion, its negativity is often just an unconcious (or fully aware) manipulation to become the victim rather than the cause of displeasure.

Example: If the submissive breaks My favorite vase...a cropping and an hour in the corner will satisfy Me...and it will be stated that it is over and guilt no longer has a place. Move on. If the submissive continues to play the guilt card I am being dishonered.

Example: If the submissive is playing online with another Dom/me and they receive a brutal caning for dishonoring Me I will not be saying it is over, no guilt, move on. I will not bring the subject up continually but I will have lost a large piece of the magic that drew Me to them...My attitude will be colder and I doubt that moving past the guilt could occur unless that submissive was an attention hound who had won some unknown personal victory within.

There are many examples that could be spoken of to show how to keep the guilt is senseless and disrespectful and other reasons why walking away from the guilt was disrespectful and self defeating.

O O I hope I have not muddied the waters with this explanation from the Impossible Mistress.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I do not have a Master (wish I did but don't ) but I hate to disappoint people that I look up to. I am very hard on myself to do the right thing and when someone says, oh don't worry it is ok, I still can't move on, I feel bad for days on end. I think I punish myself more than anyone else could. I really believe that a slave would be just as disobedient to Master if s/he didn't move on after the punishment. That seems so strange to me because I would not want to disappoint Master yet I would be by doing something that He has told me to move on from. I hope that made sense. I think I am trying to work through something myself

I think it has a lot to do with a submissives need to please and very edgy security issues that alot of us have. I know i have been punished and gone over and over in my head a million times how i could have NOT done what i did to get punished. Feelings of failure tend to seep in also. IMHO we all just want to be perfect for the right One and when we arent we are displeased with ourselves. Is it disobedience? I dont think it really is, its just part of how we tick...at least thats how i see it.

 

[MastrJ]

My submissive sometimes dwells a little on her disobedience when she's punished. She feels badly because she's disappointed me and made me punish her. Now, as far as I'm concerned, once I've punished her, it's over. While I wish she wouldn't dwell on things, it doesn't strike me as further disobedience. To me it's my submissive wanting to be better for me.

 

[emme]

I am very guilty of this also. But I have also learned is the last thing my husband wants to do is console me when I feel bad about having done something wrong. I try my best (I am not always successful) to get past what I have done wrong by focusing on doing something extra or special for Him.

For instance, I procrastinate and get behind in my studying (my grades are important to Him and I have lots to study because I am a med student), then I have neglect everything else including Him to cram for the exam and I end up not doing as well on the exam. If I dwell on the fact I messed up, nothing changes except I feel bad, instead if I work extra hard to make up for it, I can’t change the past but I can prevent it from happening again, hopefully.

Time to get back to studying.
emme

 

[ownedsubgal]

another guilty one here...i have a hard time "moving on" after i have disobeyed or displeased my Master, even if he has punished me and considers the matter over and done with. i will continue to feel extremely sad that i've disappointed him. tho i learned long ago not to express these lingering sad feelings verbally...(i used to say things to him like, why do you even want a slave like me, i always mess up, i'm so stupid, useless, etc. which naturally angered and frustrated him)...still my mood will usually be very down for quite some time after a punishment. i'll have a hard time smiling or laughing or relaxing...so while my Master may have moved on and will afterwards be in the mood to have some fun with his little one, to joke and play and just enjoy himself, my mood will be so depressed i won't be able to join in, which only makes us both feel bad. it's something i am still trying to overcome. i suppose it's still astonishing to me that even when i make a mistake, he still loves me, still wants me to be his, and that after discipline and punishment, it is history.

 

[paperdolly]

I think it is important to remember that Dom/mes enjoy administering punishment. It is part of the guidance and training they bring to the relationship. If the submissive partner were perfect all the time it would become pretty boring wouldn’t it?

Implicit in SM is not only visceral energy and raw passion but growth and self discovery. They lead and we follow, we falter and are pulled back up, even if it is by the short hairs. Being punished implies being cared for, our actions have consequences, are a reflection on the teachings of the dominant. Feeling guilty for letting the Dom/me partner down is a natural response but it is more productive to think in terms of the lesson learned. Easier said than done, no?

 

[erotic_writer_girl]

guilt

Guilt has always seemed to me to be a very effective tool for back-handed domination.

Perhaps a way to dominate in reverse-psychological terms.

I make an error.

You punish me for the error (ie Dominate)

I feel guilty.

You want me to move on.

I want to stay in the guilt. (Questioning/rejecting the wisdom/guidance of the Dom)

If you allow me the power play of staying 'in the guilt' and especially if you join me 'in the guilt'

I have successfully controlled the outcome of the situation and also your response to it.

Feeling guilty can be a power-play.

EWG

 

[angela146]

There are multiple issues here:

If I've displeased hubby and I'm being punished for it, he needs to feel my regret. It isn't just that I feel guilty for what I did.

• He needs to hear and see the punishment itself breaking my barriers and touching me.
  
  I need to feel that I have attoned for my behavior.
  
  I need to feel that I've made it up to him.
  
  He has a right to enjoy my cries and squirming as a turn-on.
  
  He has a right to "satisfaction" of his sense justice for having been wronged or let down.
  
  I need to be motivated to do better in the future.
  
  I need the release of my pent up guilt and sorrow. I need the punishment to be more intense than the guilt so that I can be purged.
  
  He has a right to enjoy dominating me and seeing me loose my equality. He can enjoy having me be "subject" to his will.
  
  I want the feeling of being subjected to him.
  
  I want to know that my submission and punishment have pleasured him.
  
  I want to enjoy the spanking itself.
  
  He has a right to enjoy spanking me (the tactile stuff in addition to the effect it has on me).

I've tried to choose my words carefully here: If my needs aren't met, he hasn't fullfiled his responsibilities as my dom. Of course, occasionally my needs aren't met and and I feel let down.

My wants are secondary. If he chooses to satisfy them, that's his choice. Actually, my "wants" are usually satisfied more with play spankings than with punishments.

His "right to enjoy" stuff is up to him. If he isn't in the mood, that's fine.

There is more to it than this but I've tried to include some general flavor of what goes on between us.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: guilt

Guilt has always seemed to me to be a very effective tool for back-handed domination.

Perhaps a way to dominate in reverse-psychological terms.

I make an error.

You punish me for the error (ie Dominate)

I feel guilty.

You want me to move on.

I want to stay in the guilt. (Questioning/rejecting the wisdom/guidance of the Dom)

If you allow me the power play of staying 'in the guilt' and especially if you join me 'in the guilt'

I have successfully controlled the outcome of the situation and also your response to it.

Feeling guilty can be a power-play.

EWG

or just plain old insecurity.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Bump

 

[alonelygal]

.

 

[A Desert Rose]

This is one of those questions that cannot be simply answered. I believe it is the (crime) itself that should determine if the punishment is enough to remove all guilt....

Yes, Ma'am. True words, for sure.

 

[Betticus]

I don't enjoy punishing someone I love. When it's over I want to let it go and be done with it. Life is too much fun to dwell on mistakes. Learn a lesson, absorb it and get back to laughing.

Or spanking!

 

[SkyBluAngelEyes]

The first time I transgressed, it just about killed me to know that I disappointed Him. He told me under any circumstances was I not to dwell on what happened. He expected me to get over it, move on, and learn from my mistakes. One time, I knew I dwelled on it too long. It was an order to move on. It was over and done with. I actually punished myself over and over on top of the punishment He gave.

Maybe this is one of the things that I’m out of the loop on, but we as subs, want to please and serve our Masters to the best of our abilities.

I know I'm new to this, (and forgive my ignorance if I have this wrong) but I think Masters’ want to accomplish that, also. I know mine made mistakes, and He’d freely admit it when He did. It didn’t make me honor, serve, or love Him any less. It made me see Him as a man who could admit His mistakes. He didn’t dwell, and if I could see that He could move on, so could I.

 

[FungiUg]

I think this is one of those individual issues, and each person will deal with it differently.

A little communication can go a long way...

 

[shy slave]

Guilt can transcend most things.

Even once forgiven we tend to take it out and re-look at it. Sometmes to remember and learn and sometimes as a self-torture.

We usually judge ourselves more harshly then anyone else would. Hence its difficult to acept a punishment and move on.

As a mother I have, in the past, asked my sons what they thought was a suitable punishement after a wrong-doing. They were always harder then I would have been. Therefore the punishment I chose seemed the lesser of the evils.

Has any PYL asked a pyl what punishment they thought suitable, and if so did you use the punishment they chose?

Has any pyl chosen a punishment either for a choice of options or been asked what they thought suitable?

Did it make it easier to move on from a transgression if the pyl chose?

 

[bdsmToy]

Great topic! Well from both angles, as a Mistress to my own slave once the punishment is over, the issue is done, and it is time to move on. No sense in dwelling on it. The punishment should be deterrant enough. Same is true with Master, if I am punished, I am, we discuss it, we're good and we move on and learn from the experience.

Is it disobidience to dwell, in a way yes -- the punishment should be enough. If the Master or Mistress says it is done, time to move on -- there is usually a reason for that.

Thanks for the meaty topic! Looking forward to hearing what others say.

she took the words from my mouth...

 

[fallon2]

Of course

everything depend on what the transgression was that the sub committed.

In most cases, I forgive and move on with that sub.

In some cases, I can forgive but cannot forget.

In rare cases, when I am "done" with someone, I am done with them in very sense of the word.

Hasn't happened very often, but it has happened.

 

[RJMasters]

After the punishment

I say after the punish its time to forgive.

Alot of times people just rush past this.

You did wrong
You got the punishment you deserved
Move on

As some have mentioned, some don't move on. They keep beating themselves up over it.

Different strokes for different folks...in some cases.

But if you as a Dom/me are concerned about a sub who just doesn't seem to move on even after punishment, maybe that sub needs to learn how to accept forgiveness.

Can that be taught? I think to some degree yes, and its simple thing to do.

I mention this in another thread about "dealing with guilt"

To accept forgiveness one needs to acknowledging and promise something to the one who is giving the forgiveness.

Simple put, acknowledge that when someone says I forgive(especially after punishment has been given), they need to acknowledge that this person loves them enough to forgive what they did. To not acknowledge that is a slap in the face and I agree it is a form of disobedience. The second part of accepting forgiveness, is making a new commitment to not do the same thing again.

So if you are concerned about a sub that doesn't seem to move on, then perhaps teaching them what accepting forgiveness means to you, and failing to accept that forgiveness is a form of rejecting you. That should do the trick.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I do not have a Master (wish I did but don't ) but I hate to disappoint people that I look up to. I am very hard on myself to do the right thing and when someone says, oh don't worry it is ok, I still can't move on, I feel bad for days on end. I think I punish myself more than anyone else could. I really believe that a slave would be just as disobedient to Master if s/he didn't move on after the punishment. That seems so strange to me because I would not want to disappoint Master yet I would be by doing something that He has told me to move on from. I hope that made sense. I think I am trying to work through something myself

snowboundsubbie, yes, you made sense. Perhaps one answer for this issue is to "dom yourself." If you've done something for which you feel you would or should be punished, set a reasonable punishment for yourself, and remind yourself when it's over that you have paid the consequence for your error.

Then, when you do find your Master - and you will - you will have already trained yourself not to disappoint Him by not moving on when a disciplinary issue has been settled to His satisfaction.