Afghanistan, summarized

Bud_Spencer

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From www.instapundit.com, a great letter:

Some days back a friend asked me what we have learned twenty years after 9/11. I sent these answers:

1) That our enemies have taken our measure, and we never took theirs. Bin Laden’s strategic predictions vis a vis Afghanistan and the United States have been vindicated: 9/11 was for the other side a massive, generational strategic success.

2) That the entire American governing apparatus is incapable of real strategic thought.

3) That the federal government of the United States is much more inventive, determined, and relentless in curbing its own citizenry than it is in curbing those who would slaughter that citizenry.

4) That the federal government of the United States will allow foreign-power interests — specifically Saudi and Pakistani — to override and eclipse the just interests of the American citizenry.

5) The preceding item exists, of course, because we are ruled by an elite with much stronger social ties to other elites than to the people of our republic.

6) That our generational response to 9/11 guarantees that 9/11 will happen again and again.

This twentieth anniversary is even more depressing and cruel than they usually are. We didn’t suffer as a lot of Americans did that day — my wife made it out of Lower Manhattan alive, for one thing — but because we are Americans, we suffered. Our leadership class was utterly incompetent to the moment, and remained so for the succeeding generation. Today we have inflicted upon us the twin bookends of blundering who mark the two-decade span. In Pennsylvania, President George W. Bush speaks: the man who cared more for Saudis than Americans while the fires still burned, who abandoned the hunt for the immediate perpetrator mere weeks after the massacre, and who cynically leveraged the moment to pursue his own disastrous projects. In Manhattan, President Joe Biden speaks: the lone figure of significance who opposed the raid to get Osama Bin Laden, and the man who presided over the shameful humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan.

A healthy and virtuous republican citizenry would shun them, and erase their names from the record.

Some questions arise. Now that we’ve decided it’s fine for Al Qaeda and the Taliban to have a country of their own again, can we at least abolish the TSA? Now that we’ve given Al Qaeda and the Taliban a stupendous cache of arms and ammunition, can we eliminate all federal gun-control law? Now that we’ve decided we have a community of interest with the Taliban — including its Al Qaeda elements — can we release everyone jailed on account of January 6th?

Hey, just asking. It hardly seems unreasonable for Americans to ask Washington, D.C., for treatment as generous as Washington, D.C., accords the terrorist movements who slaughtered thousands of us in our own streets.

Eric Paliwoda is dead, and for what.
Kim Hampton is dead, and for what.
Classmates are maimed, and for what.
Friends are wracked with PTSD, and for what.

What did we learn?

Twenty years later, we learn that the enemy won — and our ruling class was on their side.
 
Twenty years later, we learn that the enemy won — and our ruling class was on their side.

I AGREE
 
From www.instapundit.com, a great letter:

Some days back a friend asked me what we have learned twenty years after 9/11. I sent these answers:

1) That our enemies have taken our measure, and we never took theirs. Bin Laden’s strategic predictions vis a vis Afghanistan and the United States have been vindicated: 9/11 was for the other side a massive, generational strategic success.

2) That the entire American governing apparatus is incapable of real strategic thought.

3) That the federal government of the United States is much more inventive, determined, and relentless in curbing its own citizenry than it is in curbing those who would slaughter that citizenry.

4) That the federal government of the United States will allow foreign-power interests — specifically Saudi and Pakistani — to override and eclipse the just interests of the American citizenry.

5) The preceding item exists, of course, because we are ruled by an elite with much stronger social ties to other elites than to the people of our republic.

6) That our generational response to 9/11 guarantees that 9/11 will happen again and again.

This twentieth anniversary is even more depressing and cruel than they usually are. We didn’t suffer as a lot of Americans did that day — my wife made it out of Lower Manhattan alive, for one thing — but because we are Americans, we suffered. Our leadership class was utterly incompetent to the moment, and remained so for the succeeding generation. Today we have inflicted upon us the twin bookends of blundering who mark the two-decade span. In Pennsylvania, President George W. Bush speaks: the man who cared more for Saudis than Americans while the fires still burned, who abandoned the hunt for the immediate perpetrator mere weeks after the massacre, and who cynically leveraged the moment to pursue his own disastrous projects. In Manhattan, President Joe Biden speaks: the lone figure of significance who opposed the raid to get Osama Bin Laden, and the man who presided over the shameful humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan.

A healthy and virtuous republican citizenry would shun them, and erase their names from the record.

Some questions arise. Now that we’ve decided it’s fine for Al Qaeda and the Taliban to have a country of their own again, can we at least abolish the TSA? Now that we’ve given Al Qaeda and the Taliban a stupendous cache of arms and ammunition, can we eliminate all federal gun-control law? Now that we’ve decided we have a community of interest with the Taliban — including its Al Qaeda elements — can we release everyone jailed on account of January 6th?

Hey, just asking. It hardly seems unreasonable for Americans to ask Washington, D.C., for treatment as generous as Washington, D.C., accords the terrorist movements who slaughtered thousands of us in our own streets.

Eric Paliwoda is dead, and for what.
Kim Hampton is dead, and for what.
Classmates are maimed, and for what.
Friends are wracked with PTSD, and for what.

What did we learn?

Twenty years later, we learn that the enemy won — and our ruling class was on their side.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 
There is a good reason why we cannot "dictate policy" to Pakistan: they have nuclear bombs.

This is why North Korea wants to have one so badly....not to actually use one, just to avoid having superpowers dictate policy to them.
 
There is a good reason why we cannot "dictate policy" to Pakistan: they have nuclear bombs.

This is why North Korea wants to have one so badly....not to actually use one, just to avoid having superpowers dictate policy to them.

A brilliant rebuttal to a point not made in the letter.
 
There is a good reason why we cannot "dictate policy" to Pakistan: they have nuclear bombs.

This is why North Korea wants to have one so badly....not to actually use one, just to avoid having superpowers dictate policy to them.

Did you mean "why Iran wants to have one so badly"???.

Because North Korea already has several.

*nods*

Edit: I didn't bother reading Pud's nonsense because,..... well,.....it's Pud.

*emphatic nod*
 
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Did you mean "why Iran wants to have one so badly"???.

Because North Korea already has several.

*nods*

Neither should have been allowed to have nukes but thanks to Bubba and his evil, skank wife, AND 8 years of Oblunder plus his current third term, one does and the other will soon.
 
5) The preceding item exists, of course, because we are ruled by an elite with much stronger social ties to other elites than to the people of our republic.

The sole sentence of that screed that is of any truth, importance or interest.
 
Neither should have been allowed to have nukes but thanks to Bubba and his evil, skank wife, AND 8 years of Oblunder plus his current third term, one does and the other will soon.

*chuckles*

Iran made a deal, or didn't you hear, to stop their development of the bomb. Trump tore up that deal, and now Iran is back on the road to making one....way to go Trump!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html

It's hard to blame Biden, for that now isn't it? But I am sure you will pull some bullshit out of your ass....
 
*chuckles*

Is Bud taking lessons from BoBo?

The true test will be his response after being called out.

It will be interesting to see if he continues to deny it (aka "Full BoBo") or simply deflect and change the subject (aka "Half BoBo").
 
Summary: Bush the Lesser fucked up quick strike/quick exit; Obama went bigger when he should have extricated; Trump screwed up the negotiations and carry-through on extrication; Biden bobbled the ball when handed a mess but managed the extrication as well as could be expected from a slow start based on having been given zero help by his predecessor.

A Republican administration got us in and mired; a Democrat administration kicked the can down the road; a Republican administration screwed up everything it touched; a Democrat administration bobbled, bit the bullet, and got us out.
 
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A mistake made by US politicians (Bush the lesser did it twice) is to start wars and then tie the hands of the militiary. War in Afghanistan should never have been started but Bin Laden and his associates should have been eliminated - along with 3 or 4 Pakistani Generals (to encourage the others to behave.)

If the US didn't want to get their hands dirty the Indians would have done the necessary if asked. Intelligence operations should be prioritized every time ahead of military adventures in these places. Muscle only to be used sparingly and very carefully targeted.

Note how the Israelis suckered Trump into killing the Iranian General. Should have learned how to do it from that lesson.
 
What did we learn?

[/I]

This message is a typical GQP mixture of truth, half-truths and lies that twist and mangle a message that could be meaningful into another example of why we were in that war in the first place.

We learned that the OP and author are buffoons.
 
From www.instapundit.com, a great letter:

Some days back a friend asked me what we have learned twenty years after 9/11. I sent these answers:

1) That our enemies have taken our measure, and we never took theirs. Bin Laden’s strategic predictions vis a vis Afghanistan and the United States have been vindicated: 9/11 was for the other side a massive, generational strategic success.

2) That the entire American governing apparatus is incapable of real strategic thought.

3) That the federal government of the United States is much more inventive, determined, and relentless in curbing its own citizenry than it is in curbing those who would slaughter that citizenry.

4) That the federal government of the United States will allow foreign-power interests — specifically Saudi and Pakistani — to override and eclipse the just interests of the American citizenry.

5) The preceding item exists, of course, because we are ruled by an elite with much stronger social ties to other elites than to the people of our republic.

6) That our generational response to 9/11 guarantees that 9/11 will happen again and again.

This twentieth anniversary is even more depressing and cruel than they usually are. We didn’t suffer as a lot of Americans did that day — my wife made it out of Lower Manhattan alive, for one thing — but because we are Americans, we suffered. Our leadership class was utterly incompetent to the moment, and remained so for the succeeding generation. Today we have inflicted upon us the twin bookends of blundering who mark the two-decade span. In Pennsylvania, President George W. Bush speaks: the man who cared more for Saudis than Americans while the fires still burned, who abandoned the hunt for the immediate perpetrator mere weeks after the massacre, and who cynically leveraged the moment to pursue his own disastrous projects. In Manhattan, President Joe Biden speaks: the lone figure of significance who opposed the raid to get Osama Bin Laden, and the man who presided over the shameful humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan.

A healthy and virtuous republican citizenry would shun them, and erase their names from the record.

Some questions arise. Now that we’ve decided it’s fine for Al Qaeda and the Taliban to have a country of their own again, can we at least abolish the TSA? Now that we’ve given Al Qaeda and the Taliban a stupendous cache of arms and ammunition, can we eliminate all federal gun-control law? Now that we’ve decided we have a community of interest with the Taliban — including its Al Qaeda elements — can we release everyone jailed on account of January 6th?

Hey, just asking. It hardly seems unreasonable for Americans to ask Washington, D.C., for treatment as generous as Washington, D.C., accords the terrorist movements who slaughtered thousands of us in our own streets.

Eric Paliwoda is dead, and for what.
Kim Hampton is dead, and for what.
Classmates are maimed, and for what.
Friends are wracked with PTSD, and for what.

What did we learn?

Twenty years later, we learn that the enemy won — and our ruling class was on their side.

Next time we go to war, let the generals handle it and forget nation building, which is the exact opposite of what our military is tasked with doing.
 
Countries where the U.S. did some successful nation-(re)building.

Yes, after the war and after unconditional surrender, not before or during. Remember North Korea didn't surrender, so they were left a shit hole monument to Communism, you can continue to pay homage to. Meanwhile, the South was converted into a capitalist economic powerhouse where people actually export food, and children don't have to grovel in the dirt and fight over dropped grains of rice.
 
Yes, after the war and after unconditional surrender, not before or during. Remember North Korea didn't surrender, so they were left a shit hole monument to Communism, you can continue to pay homage to. Meanwhile, the South was converted into a capitalist economic powerhouse where people actually export food, and children don't have to grovel in the dirt and fight over dropped grains of rice.

In hindsight, there is no way Korea could have been handled better. Too much risk of escalation if it had been done MacArthur's way.
 
From www.instapundit.com, a great letter:

Some days back a friend asked me what we have learned twenty years after 9/11. I sent these answers:

1) That our enemies have taken our measure, and we never took theirs. Bin Laden’s strategic predictions vis a vis Afghanistan and the United States have been vindicated: 9/11 was for the other side a massive, generational strategic success.

2) That the entire American governing apparatus is incapable of real strategic thought.

3) That the federal government of the United States is much more inventive, determined, and relentless in curbing its own citizenry than it is in curbing those who would slaughter that citizenry.

4) That the federal government of the United States will allow foreign-power interests — specifically Saudi and Pakistani — to override and eclipse the just interests of the American citizenry.

5) The preceding item exists, of course, because we are ruled by an elite with much stronger social ties to other elites than to the people of our republic.

6) That our generational response to 9/11 guarantees that 9/11 will happen again and again.

This twentieth anniversary is even more depressing and cruel than they usually are. We didn’t suffer as a lot of Americans did that day — my wife made it out of Lower Manhattan alive, for one thing — but because we are Americans, we suffered. Our leadership class was utterly incompetent to the moment, and remained so for the succeeding generation. Today we have inflicted upon us the twin bookends of blundering who mark the two-decade span. In Pennsylvania, President George W. Bush speaks: the man who cared more for Saudis than Americans while the fires still burned, who abandoned the hunt for the immediate perpetrator mere weeks after the massacre, and who cynically leveraged the moment to pursue his own disastrous projects. In Manhattan, President Joe Biden speaks: the lone figure of significance who opposed the raid to get Osama Bin Laden, and the man who presided over the shameful humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan.

A healthy and virtuous republican citizenry would shun them, and erase their names from the record.

Some questions arise. Now that we’ve decided it’s fine for Al Qaeda and the Taliban to have a country of their own again, can we at least abolish the TSA? Now that we’ve given Al Qaeda and the Taliban a stupendous cache of arms and ammunition, can we eliminate all federal gun-control law? Now that we’ve decided we have a community of interest with the Taliban — including its Al Qaeda elements — can we release everyone jailed on account of January 6th?

Hey, just asking. It hardly seems unreasonable for Americans to ask Washington, D.C., for treatment as generous as Washington, D.C., accords the terrorist movements who slaughtered thousands of us in our own streets.

Eric Paliwoda is dead, and for what.
Kim Hampton is dead, and for what.
Classmates are maimed, and for what.
Friends are wracked with PTSD, and for what.

What did we learn?

Twenty years later, we learn that the enemy won — and our ruling class was on their side.

What did we learn? Apparently nothing since those who decry the withdrawal never learned the lessons they should have BEFORE we went to Afghanistan. What lessons?

The lesson from the British when they tried to conquer the country in the mid 19th century and failed.

The lesson from our own withdrawal from Vietnam.

The lesson from the Russians after their withdrawal from Afghanistan.

We spent 20 years defending and equipping the government we installed to stay in power when we eventually left. Why did it fall so quickly? After 20 years of our presence, if they weren't ready to defend themselves, how long should we have stayed? Another 5 years? 10? 20? 50?

We were scared into it by an arrogant administration that didn't learn from the mistakes of the preceding ones and held there by the next that didn't want to upset the apple cart. We could have stayed another 100 years and the outcome would have been the same as what it was.

We should have listened to the ghosts of history. Instead of trying to conquer them, we should have been patient, done some covert recon, then gone in, killed as many as we could and got the hell out. Do to them just as they did to us.

If you don't learn from the mistakes of history you WILL repeat them.

You CANNOT force upon a people something they do not want and refuse to accept.

Will we heed the lessons next time? From history, I hold little hope that will happen.


Comshaw
 
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