Advice requested

[getmesumnow]

I started exploring erotica about 2 years ago, and I love Lit. For all of you who write and post on the site, thanks, it has been a learning experience to read the stories. I discovered the forums after about a year and I have lurked around since that time (it sometimes is like a soap opera in here, very entertaining).

Anyway, here’s the deal; I started exploring erotica at the suggestion of a therapist friend of mine. She knows my background very well (it is so helpful to have a therapist as a friend) and she suggested I needed to start doing some exploring because I have been in a sexual identity crisis for all my adult life. I need to explain a few things so that hopefully you will understand where I am coming from because I am asking for advice.

I am 38 and I have never been in an adult relationship. I was sexually abused for a number of years until the age of 8. I have masturbated for as long as I can remember and I grew up on a steady diet of steamy romance novels so I have always been highly interested in sex, it has always just been solo. I get very nervous around single men in social situations and I find it extremely difficult to talk when I am around single men. In my work life I have no problem talking to men and even flirting a little. I spent the majority of my adult life being extremely obese, but in 2007 I had gastric bypass surgery and I lost like 225lbs. Something weird happened emotionally when I lost all that weight, I felt very vulnerable and very horny all the time (maybe it was just having more energy because of the weight loss). I started to fantasize about actually dating and having physical relationships with men. Those fantasies freaked me out and I started gaining weight again. Fortunately I realized what was going on and started talking with my friend who suggested I actually go to therapy, which I did and I learned all kinds of stuff about myself and how I hide a lot (hence all the weight). So I got healthy again though I am still obese, just a more healthy obese if that makes any sense at all.

Well, the fantasies about wanting a real physical relationship have not gone away, they have only gotten stronger. But now I'm a 38 year old kind-of virgin who is still socially awkward and still pretty scared of men. Part of my exploration of erotica was to try and figure out if maybe I was gay since being with a man scares me. I actually would have felt relieved if I was gay because women don’t scare me at all, but I am also not attracted to women, I don’t feel any desire to want to pair up and have a romantic relationship with a woman. I do feel a lot of desire to pair up with a man, even though that desire scares the crap out of me. So thanks Lit for helping me figure out I am straight.

So here is the dilemma, I want to start dating but I feel like I am 14 and looking forward to a first date with all the angst of “what if he wants to hold my hand or god forbid kiss me.” I am not naïve; I know dating at 38 looks a whole lot different than dating at 14, but I missed working through all of those fears and issues that teenagers usually face because I did not date or even want to when I was a teenager. My understanding is men in their 30’s and 40’s expect to date women who are comfortable with the rituals of dating and most of them expect physical affection pretty early in the relationship. I imagine my nervousness and skittish manner will be confusing to a date since I’m as old as I am. It doesn't seem like a good idea to introduce myself to potential dates with a word of caution that I may be a mature woman physically but emotionally when it comes to dating I am still in high school so if I giggle nervously when you try to hold my hand don’t be surprised. Even if I can find someone interested in me (I’m still obese which limits my dating pool anyway since there are fewer men attracted to bigger ladies), how in the hell do I help him understand that I really am interested in him even if I occasionally freeze up or I get the deer in the headlight look? I can see a guy getting turned off real fast if that happens. I’m sure most rational and compassionate men would understand if I explained the situation, but just because they understand doesn’t mean they want to have to wade through a lifetime of baggage even if the prize at the end is totally worth it (I am assuming me as the prize at the end would be worth it, I am a pretty good person after all). When in this whole process do I fess up about my baggage so that the guy has an opportunity to decide if he wants to invest his time and energy into pursuing a relationship with someone like me? When I think about putting myself out there to meet men and start this adventure of dating I feel overwhelmed and even at a loss as to how to even begin.

I’m hoping you guys have some advice that might help me, especially the men. I’m sure this posting will get its fair share of sarcastic and joking comments (this is Lit after all), and that is fine, but please if you have anything to say that might be helpful, I would really appreciate you sharing it with me.

 

[njlauren]

Your story hits home, I am the partner of someone who had been abused as a child, and things like the weight are all symptoms someone could have from abuse, or being afraid of guys though attracted to them and so forth. In my story I met my spouse when we were in school and she didn't know about the abuse, it was totally buried, but the effects were there. A lot of people wondered how we got together in the first place, we had a psych pro call us a fucking anomaly (it could well be my gender ? personality had something to do with it, not sure).. in any event, it is not an easy situation and if anyone gets snarky with you I suspect they will get jumped on. In our story the effects of that abuse are only now being totally taken out of the picture, and we have been together for 30 years, it can be that powerful.

Erotic literature can help, because it is 'safe', in some ways I credit the adult romance books being written now, especially in e-books, for helping my spouse realize that sex was not threatening and there is quite a wide world of it out there , much as our experience with BD/SM helped......but you also have to be careful about the erotic literature, because a lot of it is fantasy and there are negatives abounding in it. If a guy shy about relationships read the LW section he would never go near a woman, thinking they are all vicious cheating sluts just waiting to grab a big dick, women reading some of those fantasy stories without experience might start thinking if a guy didn't have a Phd, be fabulously wealthy, 6 pack abs and a 10" cock he isn't a good catch, and so forth..you get my drift. It is also very easy to get caught up in it, to live up in your head with it, and then you can end up comparing it to the real world, which in so many ways is more exciting, but if compared face to face, seems lacking to the world we build up in our heads.

Now on to your question. I can't tell from your post, but if you are not actively in counseling or therapy, I can't recommend strongly enough that you get back in it. I also recommend finding a specialist in either abuse or those dealing with PTSD (in our case, it was a therapist skilled in a technique called EMDR, which helped a great deal, but that is only one of many). There are also specialists in relationships, about coaching you to help you get what you need and so forth, might be worth a shot. Eventually, there also is the option of a sex surrogate (which is not an escort!), who are trained to help people with sex issues to work through them, they often work with therapists and such as a team to help. But the big suggestion is to get help if you are not, and especially with someone specializing in abuse or ptsd.....I have heard other abuse victims who did some therapy, found out some issues and thought they were done, my experience as a direct observer of what happens with abuse is it isn't that simple, it is kind of like taking an antibiotic, feeling better then stopping, you think you are better because you feel good, but if you don't keep going the treatment isn't effective......I wish my spouse had kept going to therapy, I think the delay we experienced was because she stopped.

The other thing is while there are a lot of guys in their 30's and 40's who think with their dick, I'll be the first to admit it, there are guys out there who are a little more deep then that. I don't think you have to tell them the details of your past (unless that helps you), but rather if looking for people tell them you are looking for dates, to share things like movies and dinners and such, that you want to have a relationship and get to know someone before seeing if it leads further. There is nothing wrong with dating casually to get used to being with men and seeing they aren't all horn dogs or worse, It sounds like you need experience simply in being around guys and seeing they aren't necessarily scary (hey, listen, I saw a big, bad assed biker type the other day, holding a tea cup chihuaha in his hands and giving it kisses......funniest juxtaposition I have seen in a long time...and I suspect his wife/gf is probably treated just as well).

I wish you luck, and feel free to PM if there is anything else I can do, I obviously wish you well.

 

[Inquietude]

But help you with what?

I actually don't get your problems with being obese, you look how you look (atm and it is always some kind of atm, whether u're fat, skinny or whatever), you are who you are, so I certainly don't get your pro here.

I do not think considering yourself 'a prize' for someone is the way to go.
People are not stupid and they may back off a lot earlier than you expect, perceiving you as an empty fortress.

Of course if you have issues regarding abuse, you still have them, though it's nobody else's problem but yours. You have no right to Expect people/potential sexual partners to put up with it. Your potential lovers are not your therapists. They have certain sexual expextations, like you have regarding eating, you crave food the same way they crave sex. Of course you could share some thoughts about your feelings/thoughts (abuse) with potential lovers, but don't expect them to solve your own problems. If you do, they will back off.

 

[getmesumnow]

Your story hits home, I am the partner of someone who had been abused as a child, and things like the weight are all symptoms someone could have from abuse, or being afraid of guys though attracted to them and so forth. In my story I met my spouse when we were in school and she didn't know about the abuse, it was totally buried, but the effects were there. A lot of people wondered how we got together in the first place, we had a psych pro call us a fucking anomaly (it could well be my gender ? personality had something to do with it, not sure).. in any event, it is not an easy situation and if anyone gets snarky with you I suspect they will get jumped on. In our story the effects of that abuse are only now being totally taken out of the picture, and we have been together for 30 years, it can be that powerful.

Erotic literature can help, because it is 'safe', in some ways I credit the adult romance books being written now, especially in e-books, for helping my spouse realize that sex was not threatening and there is quite a wide world of it out there , much as our experience with BD/SM helped......but you also have to be careful about the erotic literature, because a lot of it is fantasy and there are negatives abounding in it. If a guy shy about relationships read the LW section he would never go near a woman, thinking they are all vicious cheating sluts just waiting to grab a big dick, women reading some of those fantasy stories without experience might start thinking if a guy didn't have a Phd, be fabulously wealthy, 6 pack abs and a 10" cock he isn't a good catch, and so forth..you get my drift. It is also very easy to get caught up in it, to live up in your head with it, and then you can end up comparing it to the real world, which in so many ways is more exciting, but if compared face to face, seems lacking to the world we build up in our heads.

Now on to your question. I can't tell from your post, but if you are not actively in counseling or therapy, I can't recommend strongly enough that you get back in it. I also recommend finding a specialist in either abuse or those dealing with PTSD (in our case, it was a therapist skilled in a technique called EMDR, which helped a great deal, but that is only one of many). There are also specialists in relationships, about coaching you to help you get what you need and so forth, might be worth a shot. Eventually, there also is the option of a sex surrogate (which is not an escort!), who are trained to help people with sex issues to work through them, they often work with therapists and such as a team to help. But the big suggestion is to get help if you are not, and especially with someone specializing in abuse or ptsd.....I have heard other abuse victims who did some therapy, found out some issues and thought they were done, my experience as a direct observer of what happens with abuse is it isn't that simple, it is kind of like taking an antibiotic, feeling better then stopping, you think you are better because you feel good, but if you don't keep going the treatment isn't effective......I wish my spouse had kept going to therapy, I think the delay we experienced was because she stopped.

The other thing is while there are a lot of guys in their 30's and 40's who think with their dick, I'll be the first to admit it, there are guys out there who are a little more deep then that. I don't think you have to tell them the details of your past (unless that helps you), but rather if looking for people tell them you are looking for dates, to share things like movies and dinners and such, that you want to have a relationship and get to know someone before seeing if it leads further. There is nothing wrong with dating casually to get used to being with men and seeing they aren't all horn dogs or worse, It sounds like you need experience simply in being around guys and seeing they aren't necessarily scary (hey, listen, I saw a big, bad assed biker type the other day, holding a tea cup chihuaha in his hands and giving it kisses......funniest juxtaposition I have seen in a long time...and I suspect his wife/gf is probably treated just as well).

I wish you luck, and feel free to PM if there is anything else I can do, I obviously wish you well.

Thank you njlauren for your thoughtful response and I am glad to hear that your wife seems to be healing from her abuse. I understand that dealing with the effects of the abuse of a spouse or loved one can be very difficult and draining. I always worry that if I am with someone they will be paying a hefty emotional price for something they had nothing to do with just because of the emotional scars I have. I don’t like to be a burden to others and I definitely don’t want to be viewed as some emotional vampire: sucking the energy and life out of someone else. Sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to live a solo life that way I don’t harm anyone else with the residuals of my experience. Of course I was told that line of thinking is just trying to come up with an excuse to avoid a relationship.

I am not currently in therapy but I feel like I have a therapist on retainer . I saw a wonderful therapist for 2 years, she was so helpful since I had not really talked about any of my experiences in detail before. At the end of the 2 years we both felt like I needed to cut the emotional apron strings so to speak and try to function on my own for a while before I became dependent on my therapist. It felt like the right thing to do and she suggested I check in with her a couple times a year. I’m definitely not opposed to seeing a therapist for a long period of time (well, except they are pretty dang expensive).

I suppose I need to clarify that I don’t find all men scary, most of them are actually pretty good people. It is the thought of being in a relationship with one that is scary to me which is likely why I am the most nervous around single men since they are the ones available for romantic relationships. Allowing a man that close, opening myself up for the potential to be intimately hurt, is what scares the crap out of me. I think most people have a normal fear of being hurt, my fear feels like it is magnified. I still have emotional flashbacks on occasion (where out of nowhere I feel all the feelings I experienced at the time I was abused). My mind understands those are memories but emotionally it feels like everything is happening right then. I have not had one of those in months, but the fear of those is pretty daunting. What happens when I meet someone and he is a nice guy and we get close and then I freak out because being close to him triggers an emotional flashback? How the heck do you find a man who would put up with that in the forming of a relationship? Sure, if he is already attached and that kind of stuff happens, if he is decent then he sticks with his partner and supports her through it. If he is not already attached he would be wise for his own sake to run like hell for the nearest relationship exit.

 

[getmesumnow]

But help you with what?

I actually don't get your problems with being obese, you look how you look (atm and it is always some kind of atm, whether u're fat, skinny or whatever), you are who you are, so I certainly don't get your pro here.

I do not think considering yourself 'a prize' for someone is the way to go.
People are not stupid and they may back off a lot earlier than you expect, perceiving you as an empty fortress.

Of course if you have issues regarding abuse, you still have them, though it's nobody else's problem but yours. You have no right to Expect people/potential sexual partners to put up with it. Your potential lovers are not your therapists. They have certain sexual expextations, like you have regarding eating, you crave food the same way they crave sex. Of course you could share some thoughts about your feelings/thoughts (abuse) with potential lovers, but don't expect them to solve your own problems. If you do, they will back off.

You are exactly right Inquietude, it is not fair of me to expect people/potential sexual partners to be burdened with my baggage, I don't want to do that. And relationships are not just about meeting my needs, he will have needs too which I am more than happy to try and meet if I am able. But the reality is that I am scared from my experiences and I can't just put those scars away because they are inconvenient, trust me I would if I could. I wasn't asking for help regarding being obese, that is not something I am even trying to change about myself at the moment, and the reference about myself being a prize was meant to be humorous. I was really looking for suggestions about how to try to develop relationships with potential lovers/partners in a way that will increase my success taking into account that I am developmentally behind in the romantic relationship area and I am emotionally scared. Perhaps there isn't anything I can do about it and I should accept that being alone is the best alternative for everyone, that way I'm not a burden to someone else who is just trying to find a partner. Thank you for your input.

 

[Inquietude]

What comes to my mind...

You start dating, and indeed there are certain expectations. You barely know the other aaaaaaaand you tell them "sorry, I can't have sex actually(today, within a week? within a year? ever?), I was sexually abused in the past'.

What the other person may think regarding your contradiction between your wantings and behaviours?! The other person will back off.
People back off because non-abused potential partners are virgins (and they know that for some fist-time-sex-story may be very important, so they just back off to give you the chance to meet someone more special than they are).

You may think almost everyone experienced sexual abuse, but it's not true, loooooooooooooot more people never experienced it.

What is not fair, sexually abused people expect to be treated differently, specially, and in fact they use past abuse, which isn't good to anybody. 'Pity me, put up with me, I was being abused!'

You can go with your feelings and anxieties with people when you know them well. If you have problems, and you know it, find other solutions, don't date, solve your problems first and then date.

 

[Inquietude]

I was really looking for suggestions about how to try to develop relationships with potential lovers/partners in a way that will increase my success taking into account that I am developmentally behind in the romantic relationship area and I am emotionally scared.

If you can't do it otherwise, game it.

First ask yourself what you really want. Then ask yourself how to achieve it.

Right now, from what I see, your questions are solely about your emotional issues, being scared more than being into sex with someone. You may justify your actions, like 'I am dev behind', eveybody has Some problems, and non-abused people have their own issues, just as you have yours. So?

You know, if you face situation 'here and now', then game it or forget it. That's how it is. You're no Sleeping Beauty.

Perhaps there isn't anything I can do about it and I should accept that being alone is the best alternative for everyone, that way I'm not a burden to someone else who is just trying to find a partner. Thank you for your input.

Perhaps there isn't anything you can do, this is a question I have no possibility to answer, is it? Nobody knows how the future will look like.

Good luck.

 

[SexyFatGirl]

What comes to my mind...

You start dating, and indeed there are certain expectations. You barely know the other aaaaaaaand you tell them "sorry, I can't have sex actually(today, within a week? within a year? ever?), I was sexually abused in the past'.

What the other person may think regarding your contradiction between your wantings and behaviours?! The other person will back off.
People back off because non-abused potential partners are virgins (and they know that for some fist-time-sex-story may be very important, so they just back off to give you the chance to meet someone more special than they are).

You may think almost everyone experienced sexual abuse, but it's not true, loooooooooooooot more people never experienced it.

What is not fair, sexually abused people expect to be treated differently, specially, and in fact they use past abuse, which isn't good to anybody. 'Pity me, put up with me, I was being abused!'

You can go with your feelings and anxieties with people when you know them well. If you have problems, and you know it, find other solutions, don't date, solve your problems first and then date.

I think this is a little harsh, and I definitely don't think most abuse victims think everyone's been abused or have a "poor-me" attitude. Nor is it possible to sort your issues in a vacuum. While I agree that therapy and such is important before trying to have a relationship, it does reach a point where interaction is necessary for the healing process. You can't depend on others to "fix you" like a couple of posters have worried about, but abuse will affect your life for decades more, in one degree or another, and it's stupid to let that keep you from ever experiencing a relationship.

It seems like talking to a therapist regularly as you join the dating world, just to make sure you're maintaining healthy behaviours, would be a really good idea. And I'm definitely no expert, but keeping things light and being upfront about not being ready to have sex right away seem like the way to go. Look for single guys to just hang out with, even a male friend at first. Go out for drinks, go bowling, do date stuff, and keep the pressure low. There aren't any rules to a relationship except the ones the people in it agree upon, and there are bound to be a few guys around who would be cool with hanging out with a woman and just having fun without having sex right away. It sounds like what you need right now is to find a way to be comfortable with single men and the dating dynamic.

Perhaps there are singles' volleyball leagues or book clubs in your area? If you like gaming there are lots of awesome geek guys out there who are willing to have fun without banging right away. Think about what sorts of things you enjoy that could be done with a partner. Have fun with it, maintain some single guy friends that you can do stuff with. Once you're comfortable then you can think about having sex or serious relationships.

Your virginity is nobody's business until you've decided to sleep with them, and even then only if you want to tell them (it can make it better if he knows to go gentle at first, though). The past abuse should probably be mentioned if it is affecting the relationship negatively, and/or if you find a partner you trust and want to be serious with, but in a casual setting it's not necessary right away to infodump. And when you do choose to talk about it, if he's anything less than supportive, find someone better.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Inquietude]

and there are bound to be a few guys around who would be cool with hanging out with a woman and just having fun without having sex right away.

But of course not Everybody expects you to have sex with them on a first date!
Although if you tend to procrastinate, here is your answer: in procrastinating. Some people spend yyyyyears on forums trying to solve their issues, this is nothing else but severe procrastinating.

The past abuse should probably be mentioned if it is affecting the relationship negatively, and/or if you find a partner you trust and want to be serious with, but in a casual setting it's not necessary right away to infodump. And when you do choose to talk about it, if he's anything less than supportive, find someone better.

Yes, find someone better! Take your time...

 

[Bramblethorn]

My understanding is men in their 30’s and 40’s expect to date women who are comfortable with the rituals of dating and most of them expect physical affection pretty early in the relationship.

Don't get too caught up in the idea that there's only one way to date and if you get the magic rituals wrong you'll fail. I never figured out how dating is supposed to work, and yet somehow I managed to find long-term relationships.

(You probably will fail, several times, just because those are the odds EVERYBODY lives with when looking for love. It stings every time, but it's not the end of the world unless you let it be.)

My advice:

- There's only so far you can go to make romance happen. There's a paradox at work: trying to hard to find a partner tends to make it HARDER because neediness isn't sexy. Work on meeting people, making friends, having fun, and being confident in yourself.

- Don't be afraid to date friends. Yes, there are risks, but there are also rewards.

- Don't be afraid to say up-front what you're looking for. Yes, that may scare away people who don't want the same thing you do. But isn't it better to weed them out up-front rather than investing several months into a relationship that's not going anywhere?

- Remember that not everybody is looking for a beanpole.

 

[njlauren]

Getmesum-

I can understand your therapist not wanting you to be dependent on them, that is the goal of any therapy and I can understand why they would suggest taking time off. Even if I was a trained therapist, I could not tell you over the net what to do, and obviously I am not. I think my answer to you is what I wrote originally and others have wrote, see if you can find buddy kind of dates with men and take it from there, and if you find yourself where you can't do it, then it may be time to get back into therapy. One of the reasons I recommended someone experienced in PTSD treatment is because they are focused on rooting out things so you don't get the flashbacks and so forth. my spouse did EMDR and it is like a sledgehammer if you are compatible with it (not everyone is), and I have used it myself in dealing with other issues. It isn't easy, but it IME (and that is all this is, what I experienced) gets a lot done fast...other methods work I hear as well. Therapy is a weird thing, not all therapists handle all things well, and it could be your old therapist's approach didn't work (maybe it did, obviously, that is a hypothetical). If you find yourself not even able to date, be in even a friend relationship with a guy where you do dating, that to me is a sign you may have other things to work on (with the caveat I am not a trained professional, just my opinion from my own experiences). And as you point out, things like abuse can be a kind of self fulfilling prophesy, you know you have been abused and you can use that as an excuse not to even try to have a relationship, which you don't want to have because of fears.

The other thing you are going to work on IMO is the need not to think of yourself as damaged good or whatnot, as you kind of joked about. In a sense, the fact that you were abused should be the last thing you think of when pursuing relationships, because while I would be the last one to say it isn't important, in terms of relationships it can't be. You need to understand you prob have a lot to offer people you might want to date or pursue a relationship with, and if you put the abuse first, as in "I am an abuse victim" it is going to cause you to poison your efforts IMO, because you are in effect telling yourself I am not good enough for the person I am dating. Look at your good attributes, the things you think are worthwhile about yourself, and concentrate on those. Unless a relationship starts getting serious, the abuse issue may not even be a factor, but if you keep it there like a scarlet letter "A" it won't even let it get into the beginning phases.

I have experience with something not really related but it might be relevant. A lot of trans folks when they are trying to establish themselves end up with a mindset we used to call 'tranny vision", where they focused everything through being trans. You would be talking about some issue, and they would respond "as a trans woman" or whatever, and the rest of us would be like "WTF?". They would have trouble with someone and assume it was because they were transgendered, rather then figuring out they actually had done something stupid to the other person. One person I know transitioned on the job, and their employer was really cool, supported them, but then in a support group they were complaining about their job and were blaming it on being trans..but then people started asking what she meant, and it turned out she didn't like the job she had been doing (it was a tech job, repairing cable tv equipment) and had been kind of not performing well and it was being noticed.....it took us a while, especially those of us with management background, to tell her the problem was she wasn't performing....and then suggested ways she could move into other areas and be happy, but not to blame it on being trans. The relevancy in that to your situation is it is very easy when you have something you are wrestling with, whether it be abuse or being transgendered, it is easy to put it at the forefront of everything and it ends up hurting you, if you are trans and assume everyone is reacting to you being trans rather then looking at motives, you end up shutting people out who otherwise liked you, and so forth.

My other suggestion is to see if there are online resources for people in your boat, maybe chat rooms or discussion forums and the like, wouldn't surprise me if some of the abuse groups maintain resources like that. Support groups and the like have their own problems from my own experiences, but they also can be a valuable tool, even virtual ones, and perhaps people there have good suggestions on how to move forward since many of them probably have gone through that.

 

[Que]

I don't know if this helps and it might be my very own case of arrested development, but I never particularly felt different as I got chronologically older...it still feels like I'm a 14 year old at the dance...

Not a lot changed for me. I always aimed high, some thought over my head. caught one...that took a couple of decades out of my life, and now that im chasing girls again, its like I'm a 14 year old again, just with better game this time.

I will say though dating changed, but that won't affect you much if you didn't date...i do think its more sexually charged...(might be that I'm just irresistible)...

I failed for a while to get a date...I found out that its easier to get laid than to get a date.

 

[Inquietude]

scare away people who don't want the same thing you do. But isn't it better to weed them out up-front rather than investing several months into a relationship that's not going anywhere?

Eee, it's not a matter of being scared or scaring away. If you like sexual activity number 375 and the other do not, the other likes activity number 3579, no wonder this potential partner loses SEXUAL interest in you, coz what you like is not to the partner's liking and it is not sexy, therefore yearning/lust dies naturally.

Remarks about weeding are not nice, it's pure objectification of a person who supposed to deliver you what You want (and only this counts). If you have no regard for people's feelings no wonder they back off.

Badly hurt and abused sexually people have entirely different outlook on sex, they were objects and they trade sex. Manipulation is natural to them - and this is unaccetable to so called 'normals'. Manipulation, esp. in sex is off putting. It's not that abused person is worse, 'damaged goods', not the point, it's the style they present.

Obviously i's very hard to get things right when your mind was seriously twisted by abuser who used you, tortured you and you supposed to thank them for their 'care'. Brainwashing takes is toll, surely. Don't be fooled that you don't find understanding, you do, though not always you will find acceptance to your scripts. What's bad should not be nurtured (it's not YOU who is bad, some of your scripts are, but still, you will identify yourself with your scripts and take things personally).

 

[MissBonita2012]

Badly hurt and abused sexually people have entirely different outlook on sex, they were objects and they trade sex. Manipulation is natural to them - and this is unaccetable to so called 'normals'. Manipulation, esp. in sex is off putting. It's not that abused person is worse, 'damaged goods', not the point, it's the style they present.

Obviously i's very hard to get things right when your mind was seriously twisted by abuser who used you, tortured you and you supposed to thank them for their 'care'. Brainwashing takes is toll, surely. Don't be fooled that you don't find understanding, you do, though not always you will find acceptance to your scripts. What's bad should not be nurtured (it's not YOU who is bad, some of your scripts are, but still, you will identify yourself with your scripts and take things personally).

Wow, I was already thinking your comments were harsh and then I get to this response. I find it interesting that you portray a victim as a person who harms others. Yes people need to avoid using life experiences as an excuse for doing unhealthy things, but making a statement that abuse survivors are somehow natural manipulators is cruel and a manipulation in and of itself. You just reinforced the idea that people who have had traumatic life experiences are damaged and broken and therefore attempting to elevated yourself (a “normal”) above abuse survivors because you imply you are without damage yourself. Way to be supportive stud. There is not a person over the age of 15 who doesn't have issues and skewed perceptions.

As far as “seriously twisted” minds, I am trying to come up with a nice way of saying “Mr. Pot, stopping talking about the color of the kettle.” Most people on lit would be considered seriously twisted by judgmental asses, seems there is a cast system for lit in your mind as well.

As for the OP, hang in there. Change is difficult and expect to make mistakes and feel uncomfortable. I truly believe a life without connections to others, especially romantic connections, is a half-life. Don’t let the choices of someone else limit what you can enjoy in life. Seems like you have already lost a lot of time limiting yourself because of fear, don’t give any more of your life to those who abused you.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Eee, it's not a matter of being scared or scaring away. If you like sexual activity number 375 and the other do not, the other likes activity number 3579, no wonder this potential partner loses SEXUAL interest in you, coz what you like is not to the partner's liking and it is not sexy, therefore yearning/lust dies naturally.

Indeed. But 'naturally' can be pretty painful if you've spent a while getting to that point and invested a lot into it before realising you're not compatible.

Remarks about weeding are not nice, it's pure objectification of a person who supposed to deliver you what You want (and only this counts). If you have no regard for people's feelings no wonder they back off.

It's not a question of selfishness vs generosity. If what you need out of a relationship isn't compatible with what they need out of a relationship, BOTH parties are better off figuring that out early and moving on. It's not selfish to tell somebody else: "I am not what you're looking for."

 

[Ozfetishguy]

When in this whole process do I fess up about my baggage so that the guy has an opportunity to decide if he wants to invest his time and energy into pursuing a relationship with someone like me? When I think about putting myself out there to meet men and start this adventure of dating I feel overwhelmed and even at a loss as to how to even begin.

On a first date, I'd suggest saying something like "I haven't been on a date for a while, so I'm a bit nervous". Most guys would understand that, and it avoids having to share a lot of information up front. I've got some health issues that I don't share on first dates. If after a few dates, it looks like a serious relationship is going to develop then that's when I say something, but even then, I don't think you need to tell them everything, all at once.

On the issue of how to start, have your considered joining an internet dating site? That way, you can get to know a bit about someone before you meet them face to face. My sister met her husband that way, and it seems to be working for them!

 

[Inquietude]

/answered/

ah ah my lovely, don't be bad

 

[Inquietude]

Indeed. But 'naturally' can be pretty painful if you've spent a while getting to that point and invested a lot into it before realising you're not compatible.

Can be, but doesn't have to be.

It's not a question of selfishness vs generosity. If what you need out of a relationship isn't compatible with what they need out of a relationship, BOTH parties are better off figuring that out early and moving on. It's not selfish to tell somebody else: "I am not what you're looking for."

"I am not what you're looking for." - is NOT selfish (aka shellfish).

Making remarks about someone being a weed is selfish, it's plain aggression which stems from fellings of rejection ---> 'You are not giving me what I want, then f*** you, I will make you hurt, coz you don't appreciate ME and good spanking I want to give you to open your doors of perception.' Something like that.

YOU CAN'T FORCE YOURSELF ON OTHERS (whatever you wish to do). If you do you will be rejected for Real.

The subject regulates which door they want to open and to what.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Making remarks about someone being a weed is selfish, it's plain aggression which stems from fellings of rejection ---> 'You are not giving me what I want, then f*** you, I will make you hurt, coz you don't appreciate ME and good spanking I want to give you to open your doors of perception.' Something like that.

Er, no. You're reading WAAAY too much into that. Using the expression "weeding out" is not synonymous with calling somebody a "weed"; it's just a colloquial expression for removing things that need to be removed.

And the whole point is to avoid feelings of rejection - on both sides - by figuring out early when people aren't going to be compatible. Because the later they realise that, the messier it gets.

 

[Inquietude]

Er, no. You're reading WAAAY too much into that. Using the expression "weeding out" is not synonymous with calling somebody a "weed"; it's just a colloquial expression for removing things that need to be removed.

Highly circumstantial.

Objectively: internet is a medium where you cannot see, touch, hear the other person. You rely on written text Only.

If you are manipulaive, you will manipulate interlocutor to feel and think things You want them to feel and think (basing on what they read). If you are not manipulative, you will not manipulate your interlocutor at all.

The very interpretation of words I read here or anywhere for that matter is up to me, the subject, Even if I make a mistake, it's still my judgement and my mistake. On the other hand if you are trying to mainpulate me (as above), I may draw conclusions (or just assume) that you are deliberately manipulating me and that you may have serious issues with closeness, which means you are So Very Scared Being Vulnerable. If you are so very scared, then you would do anything not to be vulnerable. Manipulativeness and avoidance makes other people BACK OFF.

In the end: you have no right to write me how to interprete texts, how to feel and what to think.

1. You being overhelpful means that You cannot accept help yourself, You prefer to stay in control of others.
2. You prefer to stay in control of others, You being overhelpful means that You cannot accept help yourself.
3. Closed circuit.

You push and pull at the same time. This for example makes you push away things that you pull towards yourself. Things=your own needs. If Things, that's half of a problem, worse is when you push/pull real people; you need to differentiate Things You need/want from People. Either way effect of your actions is bad: people BACK OFF. Most of them will back off for good, as safer option, others will stare at you with this notion 'How much longer?'.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The very interpretation of words I read here or anywhere for that matter is up to me, the subject, Even if I make a mistake, it's still my judgement and my mistake. On the other hand if you are trying to mainpulate me (as above), I may draw conclusions (or just assume) that you are deliberately manipulating me

At no point did I attempt to "manipulate" you. (Readers are welcome to look through our discussion above and confirm this for themselves.) I wasn't even looking for a conversation with you; the OP asked for advice and I responded to her. You have every right to join the conversation, but don't mistake yourself for the focus of the discussion.

and that you may have serious issues with closeness, which means you are So Very Scared Being Vulnerable. If you are so very scared, then you would do anything not to be vulnerable. Manipulativeness and avoidance makes other people BACK OFF.

In the end: you have no right to write me how to interprete texts, how to feel and what to think.

Uh-huh. Well, you feel free to interpret my words however you like. Meanwhile, I will exercise my freedom to interpret your words as it seems appropriate to me.

I'm going to interpret them as the words of somebody for whom English is not a first language, and whose English - both expression and comprehension - are not quite as good as you think they are. (It's not bad, but there are a few tell-tales - my first guess would be Germany.)

As long as we're playing "amateur Internet psychoanalyst", I'm also going to interpret them as the words of somebody who brought way too much of their own baggage into this conversation, somebody who is determined to dump that baggage into the discussion regardless of how irrelevant it might be.

1. You being overhelpful means that You cannot accept help yourself, You prefer to stay in control of others.

I'll remind you that the OP asked for advice. If you think replying to that by giving advice is "overhelpful", you have serious reading comprehension issues.

Either way effect of your actions is bad: people BACK OFF. Most of them will back off for good, as safer option, others will stare at you with this notion 'How much longer?'.

I don't know who you're talking to there - maybe somebody from your past? maybe somebody from inside your head - but it ain't me, babe.

And at this point I'm going to stick you on ignore. You are welcome to interpret that as you like, but the real reason is that you're being a prat.

 

[MissBonita2012]

Highly circumstantial.

Objectively: internet is a medium where you cannot see, touch, hear the other person. You rely on written text Only.

If you are manipulaive, you will manipulate interlocutor to feel and think things You want them to feel and think (basing on what they read). If you are not manipulative, you will not manipulate your interlocutor at all.

The very interpretation of words I read here or anywhere for that matter is up to me, the subject, Even if I make a mistake, it's still my judgement and my mistake. On the other hand if you are trying to mainpulate me (as above), I may draw conclusions (or just assume) that you are deliberately manipulating me and that you may have serious issues with closeness, which means you are So Very Scared Being Vulnerable. If you are so very scared, then you would do anything not to be vulnerable. Manipulativeness and avoidance makes other people BACK OFF.

In the end: you have no right to write me how to interprete texts, how to feel and what to think.

1. You being overhelpful means that You cannot accept help yourself, You prefer to stay in control of others.
2. You prefer to stay in control of others, You being overhelpful means that You cannot accept help yourself.
3. Closed circuit.

You push and pull at the same time. This for example makes you push away things that you pull towards yourself. Things=your own needs. If Things, that's half of a problem, worse is when you push/pull real people; you need to differentiate Things You need/want from People. Either way effect of your actions is bad: people BACK OFF. Most of them will back off for good, as safer option, others will stare at you with this notion 'How much longer?'.

I am hoping you are drunk and that is why you sound like a lunatic; otherwise you may need some significant mental health treatment yourself.

 

[Inquietude]

And

'(Readers are welcome to look through our discussion above and confirm this for themselves.)'
Sure.
'but don't mistake yourself for the focus of the discussion.'
I don't.
'and whose English - both expression and comprehension - are not quite as good as you think they are.'
They are as they are.
'(It's not bad, but there are a few tell-tales - my first guess would be Germany.)'
You are absolutely right. And what r you gonna do about it?
'As long as we're playing "amateur Internet psychoanalyst", I'm also going to interpret them as the words of somebody who brought way too much of their own baggage into this conversation, somebody who is determined to dump that baggage into the discussion regardless of how irrelevant it might be.'
Absolutely, you are absolutely right, but what are you going to do about it?!
'you have serious reading comprehension issues.'
Thank you doctor!
'maybe somebody from inside your head - but it ain't me, babe.'
Thank you doctor!
'And at this point I'm going to stick you on ignore. You are welcome to interpret that as you like, but the real reason is that you're being a prat.'
To interpret:
1."Withdrawal is my greatest punishment."
2."If you can ignore something, do it."
3."Belittle at every opportunity."
4."Lash out if your integrity is questioned."
5."Well, the f***ing rules suck ass."

Indeed, withdrawal is your greatest punishment to Yourself. It won't be long when you unstick me from 'ignore' mode. Hugs.

 

[SexyFatGirl]

Inquietude, can you please take your issues elsewhere instead of continuing to insert them into the thread of this lady who just wants some help? You're not being helpful, and your hijack and weird hostility toward people who have experienced abuse isn't really conducive to a helpful atmosphere either.

 

[reader366]

advice

xxxxx