G
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
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I already have a Master's degree (MS,Biogeography). I'm just (hoping to be) beginning another, oddly enough an MFA in Creative Writing (i'll get the thumbs up or down in the next week, classes begin at the end of next month).
Education is never a waste.
Never.
It benefits one's personal growth, if nothing else, MH, not an inconsiderate advantage in today's complex and often confusing world.
Education is never a waste.
Never.
It benefits one's personal growth, if nothing else, MH, not an inconsiderate advantage in today's complex and often confusing world.
Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Re: ouch
Hmmmm... I went back to try to figure out what the "ouch" referred to. From my post? I hope not. I wasn't trying to flame, just answer the question. If you go to all the stories here, how would you know which authors had an advance degree and which didn't?
Siren said:
Hmmmm... I went back to try to figure out what the "ouch" referred to. From my post? I hope not. I wasn't trying to flame, just answer the question. If you go to all the stories here, how would you know which authors had an advance degree and which didn't?
bluntforcemama
Aqua Vulva
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Education is always worth the time and effort.
Silverlily
Kitty Mama - East Coast
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cymbidia said:
Oh that's funny, a sub with a Master's degree.
listen to the woman, she knows her s%#t
G
Guest
Guest
Closet Desire
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Maybe...
...the last one to comment, but I have three degrees including a PhD. None of them have anything to do with what 90% of my living comes from. Yet, I wouldn't trade them for anything nor would I have done anything differently.
The mistake is doing something ONLY for the financial rewards. If you don't love what you're doing you'll never get rich doing it.
...the last one to comment, but I have three degrees including a PhD. None of them have anything to do with what 90% of my living comes from. Yet, I wouldn't trade them for anything nor would I have done anything differently.
The mistake is doing something ONLY for the financial rewards. If you don't love what you're doing you'll never get rich doing it.
rambling man
Somewhat Deadly
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I have an MA and am starting my PhD next fall. Education is never a waste because everything you learn helps in some way. I should think this would especially be true in creative writing. Perhaps you will be inspired by something you learn to write the Great American Erotic Novel......
An advanced degree is good for three things, education first, sense of satisfaction second, and money a distant third
An advanced degree is good for three things, education first, sense of satisfaction second, and money a distant third
G
Guest
Guest
rambling man
Somewhat Deadly
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Obey your master, master...Master of puppets is pulling your strings!!!!
Shy Tall Guy
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cymbidia said:
Never say never. I have two engineering type degrees - I leave the first off my resume, and only include the second because I is expected to have some kind of degree.
In my field (Software Engineering), and an increasing number of others, degrees matter much less than experience and knowledge. When I am looking over a resume I rarely take into consideration what the degree is in or how advanced it is - I look at what the person has done in the real world.
Of course there are professional areas where degrees of a certain type are mandatory either to get a job or to get an advancement. These areas are usually in the more institutional arenas, or those companies that are so large or old they are institutions (Boeing is one company that is like this - but even they are changing.
Teaching in K-12 schools or universities is another area, but community colleges are much less likely to care about whether you can BS, MS or Pile it Higher and Deeper.
Whether education is a waste or not seems academic to me (pun intended) - rather, the question I would ask, and want answered would be whether the return on investment (time and money) is worth it. Will this new degree get you past some kind of glass ceiling that an educational institution has, or are you just considering it for other reasons?
Personally, I think life and experience is a better teacher than any academic institution.
STG
Barb Dwyer
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Furthering your education is never wrong!
Excellent advice CD.
I have 3 advanced degrees and couldn't agree more. I actually have been able to utilize the education behind those accomplishments. But I enjoy learning in and of itself - not merely as a means to an end or for the potential financial considerations.
MH, good luck with your studies. You already demonstrate a high level of competence and acumen. It is readily apparent that your education so far has been quite successful!
Excellent advice CD.
I have 3 advanced degrees and couldn't agree more. I actually have been able to utilize the education behind those accomplishments. But I enjoy learning in and of itself - not merely as a means to an end or for the potential financial considerations.
MH, good luck with your studies. You already demonstrate a high level of competence and acumen. It is readily apparent that your education so far has been quite successful!
Closet Desire
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STG...
While I agree with you to some degree that life and experience is invaluable I must point out that attending university is "life and experience". It's true that an academic degree is often not vital to many of the more "vocational" pursuits in the IT trade. More often than not the technology moves too fast for a university degree to be much more than a primer.
Some degrees are intended to "teach" you what you need to know in order to do the job. For example, medicine, nursing, engineering, business. Other degrees teach you primarily how to learn, how to open your mind, and how to logically approach a large, challenging project--like a PhD. It's not an either-or because there is a lot of overlap but different degrees have a different emphasis.
I was interested in your comment that you want to know what they have done in real life. Overall, in the real world, those with university educations as part of their "life experience" earn more money, have more demanding and rewarding careers, and are more in demand. Not always for what they "know" but because of their ability to "do". This claim isn't something I made up but is the conclusion of studies done by businesses, government, and academics. There are always exceptions to the rule--look at Bill Gates--but in general it holds true.
It's true in our business. We started out offering positions to people who could do the job (qualifications are minimal). As time went on it sorted itself out and the majority of people left working with us have Masters in Psychology and many are finishing PhDs. What they demonstrated to us was an ability to work with difficult clients, to show up on time, clients who felt they were helping, an ability to complete the required paperwork, and to work as part of a team. We both share in the benefits--they earn double what their peers do and, because we earn a percentage, we earn more too.
It's a big world out there and there are no hard and fast rules. Education is a personal thing--if it makes you feel better and rewarded then it's a good thing. If you pursue it ONLY to get a job you stand a good chance of being disappointed (to wit the 52% college drop out rate in the US).
While I agree with you to some degree that life and experience is invaluable I must point out that attending university is "life and experience". It's true that an academic degree is often not vital to many of the more "vocational" pursuits in the IT trade. More often than not the technology moves too fast for a university degree to be much more than a primer.
Some degrees are intended to "teach" you what you need to know in order to do the job. For example, medicine, nursing, engineering, business. Other degrees teach you primarily how to learn, how to open your mind, and how to logically approach a large, challenging project--like a PhD. It's not an either-or because there is a lot of overlap but different degrees have a different emphasis.
I was interested in your comment that you want to know what they have done in real life. Overall, in the real world, those with university educations as part of their "life experience" earn more money, have more demanding and rewarding careers, and are more in demand. Not always for what they "know" but because of their ability to "do". This claim isn't something I made up but is the conclusion of studies done by businesses, government, and academics. There are always exceptions to the rule--look at Bill Gates--but in general it holds true.
It's true in our business. We started out offering positions to people who could do the job (qualifications are minimal). As time went on it sorted itself out and the majority of people left working with us have Masters in Psychology and many are finishing PhDs. What they demonstrated to us was an ability to work with difficult clients, to show up on time, clients who felt they were helping, an ability to complete the required paperwork, and to work as part of a team. We both share in the benefits--they earn double what their peers do and, because we earn a percentage, we earn more too.
It's a big world out there and there are no hard and fast rules. Education is a personal thing--if it makes you feel better and rewarded then it's a good thing. If you pursue it ONLY to get a job you stand a good chance of being disappointed (to wit the 52% college drop out rate in the US).
Shy Tall Guy
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Re: STG...
I mostly interview people for Software Engineering positions, so in that perspective the degree is not really relevant, or at least not as relevant as what they have done since they got their degree - at least in my opinion. My degree is a EE, very little software engineering. I know people with Comp Sci degrees know more about writing compilers than I do, as most CS programs lean heavily on that - but very few S/W Engineers write compilers. So I look for what they have done that is relevant to what they will be doing.
Another factor is that if we really like the applicant, and they don't have the experience, then we don't look so much at what they know, but how they think and how well they can solve problems. Sure many degree programs help in that respect, but it doesn't seem to matter that much which degree it is, or how advanced it is. Among others, we had two senior engineers that had Pysch degrees, a junior engineer with an structural engineering degree, and one senior engineer with an advanced CS degree who worked in an academic GUI research lab. The only one who really had anyone consider his/her degree was the last one, and that was mostly due to his research work.
There are other anecdotes that I could relate, but I agree that in some, maybe even many areas, degrees are helpful, advanced degrees being more helpful. But I think the world of employment is getting more relaxed in how they look at degrees, with non-academic accomplishments becoming more important than degrees.
Now certainly, my professional field is more about general problem solving using computer languages. The problems solved cover a wide range of problem domains. My career is an example; I have worked on software for comm systems that bounced signals off meteorites, voice mail apps, immunoassay research, spinal trauma therapy and publishing industry.
Certainly the people who were the domain experts usually had advanced degrees in many of those fields, especially the medical fields, and you probably wouldn't want someone with a 2 year vocational degree heading up the next Mars lander, but there are a lot of jobs out there that just having a degree is enough, and work experience is more important than what you forgot from school.
YMMV,
STG
Closet Desire said:
I mostly interview people for Software Engineering positions, so in that perspective the degree is not really relevant, or at least not as relevant as what they have done since they got their degree - at least in my opinion. My degree is a EE, very little software engineering. I know people with Comp Sci degrees know more about writing compilers than I do, as most CS programs lean heavily on that - but very few S/W Engineers write compilers. So I look for what they have done that is relevant to what they will be doing.
Another factor is that if we really like the applicant, and they don't have the experience, then we don't look so much at what they know, but how they think and how well they can solve problems. Sure many degree programs help in that respect, but it doesn't seem to matter that much which degree it is, or how advanced it is. Among others, we had two senior engineers that had Pysch degrees, a junior engineer with an structural engineering degree, and one senior engineer with an advanced CS degree who worked in an academic GUI research lab. The only one who really had anyone consider his/her degree was the last one, and that was mostly due to his research work.
There are other anecdotes that I could relate, but I agree that in some, maybe even many areas, degrees are helpful, advanced degrees being more helpful. But I think the world of employment is getting more relaxed in how they look at degrees, with non-academic accomplishments becoming more important than degrees.
Now certainly, my professional field is more about general problem solving using computer languages. The problems solved cover a wide range of problem domains. My career is an example; I have worked on software for comm systems that bounced signals off meteorites, voice mail apps, immunoassay research, spinal trauma therapy and publishing industry.
Certainly the people who were the domain experts usually had advanced degrees in many of those fields, especially the medical fields, and you probably wouldn't want someone with a 2 year vocational degree heading up the next Mars lander, but there are a lot of jobs out there that just having a degree is enough, and work experience is more important than what you forgot from school.
YMMV,
STG
Closet Desire
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I think...
...we agree more than disagree. There are lots of people working in fields that have nothing to do with their degrees--tending to support my suggestion that the ability to see something through demonstrates the character of the person.
My first career in nuclear engineering wasn't learned at university but in Adm Rickover's programme. A university degree didn't come for another fifteen years. So there's always lots of possibilities.
...we agree more than disagree. There are lots of people working in fields that have nothing to do with their degrees--tending to support my suggestion that the ability to see something through demonstrates the character of the person.
My first career in nuclear engineering wasn't learned at university but in Adm Rickover's programme. A university degree didn't come for another fifteen years. So there's always lots of possibilities.
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