Ad's linked to increase risk of suicide

[Colleen Thomas]

BETHESDA, Md. (Reuters) - All nine antidepressants studied by regulators raise concerns about a higher risk of suicidal behavior in children and teens who take the drugs, a U.S. advisory panel said on Tuesday.

The drugs are GlaxoSmithKline Plc's Paxil and Wellbutrin, Eli Lilly and Co.'s Prozac, Bristol-Myers Squibb's Serzone, Pfizer Inc.'s Zoloft, Forest Laboratories Inc.'s Celexa, Wyeth's Effexor, Solvay's Luvox and Akzo Nobel's Remeron.

Sorry for the new thread, I couldn't dig up the depression thread. I am on two of these and have been on three others. No information on risks to adults, but those of you who have kids, it might be good to have the list.

-Colly

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Well that explains a lot now.


Sorry, I read but those as butt hose.....LOL

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Well that explains a lot now.


Sorry, I read but those as butt hose.....LOL

Since you didn't quote it. I'll just fix it and everyone can wonder what in the world you are talking about

 

[cloudy]

Since you didn't quote it. I'll just fix it and everyone can wonder what in the world you are talking about

I saw it, I saw it!!!

Okay, thread hijacking over.....sorry, Colly.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I wonder how they did these studies? What did they use as controls?

In some ways these anti-depressents are insidious. I'm used to drugs that when you take the drug, you know you've taken a drug. Anti-depressents aren't like that, You lose your frame of reference.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I have always wondered what they used as controls. Obviously depressed people are more likely to commit suicide, but giving Ad's to a normal person is going to screw them up. I suppose the only way to test the theory is to compare a control group of depressed patients who don't get Ads with your test group who does. Even then, the margin for error seems excassive.

-Colly

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Makes you wonder if they are worth the trouble?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Makes you wonder if they are worth the trouble?

To me they are. there may be fall out, even serious side effects, but that pales in comaprrison to the way the world becomes colorless, litstless and futile when I am depressed.

-Colly

 

[ABSTRUSE]

To me they are. there may be fall out, even serious side effects, but that pales in comaprrison to the way the world becomes colorless, litstless and futile when I am depressed.

-Colly

Point made and how stupid of me to even think that at this time in my life.
I can feel the difference when I'm late or miss a dose, I think I just hate the vertigo I get sometimes with mine.

 

[thenry]

The study I read was a retroactive case study. So they look at health records of children on antidepressants and compare them to health records of depressed children not on antidepressants.

The obvious problem with is that the child has to do something self-destructive in the first place to have a record, and actual suicide rates are low. So what the studies actually measure is the ratio of "suicidal behavior," or bad self-destructive behaviors (including alcohol binging, I believe, and any sort of accident involving bleeding), to "not dangerous" destructive behavior.

Also, much like the Xanax "problem" (people taking it longer than a week have a 10x greater risk of suicide), the studies don't take into account a masking effect. Which is to say all the seriously depressed children are on antidepressants and were more liable to commit suicide anyway.

This is a good article discussing the study's statistical difficulties.

 

[impressive]

I just hated taking Paxil. Oh, I wasn't depressed while taking it -- I just wasn't. Apathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.

A friend said that my depression was situational rather than chemical. I disagree. I'm sure the circumstances played a part, but underlying it all was the chemical imbalance.

 

[rgraham666]

Speaking from experience, it's very hard to tell where the situation ends and the chemistry begins.

I'm now wondering if Paxil may have held me back. I didn't really start coming out of the shell I built until I stopped taking it.

 

[impressive]

Speaking from experience, it's very hard to tell where the situation ends and the chemistry begins.

I'm now wondering if Paxil may have held me back. I didn't really start coming out of the shell I built until I stopped taking it.

YES! I got my "spark" back when I came off the Paxil.

And, as for situational/chemical issue -- we could talk for years and never solve the "which came first" debate to anyone's satisfaction.

In all, balancing my blood sugars made the biggest difference. Those spikes and crashes were wreaking havoc on my moods, my appetite, inflammation, joint pain, sleep, etc. You name it -- it's all interrelated.

 

[rgraham666]

I found that handling stress helped a lot.

Keeping out of situations that caused it, and learning how not to take things seriously all the time.

I used to be a ridiculous perfectionist. Once I honestly gave that up, things got a lot better.

 

[minsue]

I just hated taking Paxil. Oh, I wasn't depressed while taking it -- I just wasn't. Apathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.

EXACTLY

 

[Pure]

It's worth pointing out that 'suicidal tendencies' might NOT be a side effect, in the strict sense, of the AD's mentioned.

For it's known that people who, for one reason or another, after a long spell 'in the pits,' start to feel better (and in particular have more energy) are at increased risk of suicide, compared to those remaining in the 'pits.'

So it seems possible that getting a person out of a serious low, is an intrinsically risky business. The person must be observed closely. It *might* be a testimony to the drugs 'working', that the suicide risk goes up, for a while.

 

[DarkDuchess]

When I was in high-school, I took Zoloft and Lithium, I had a very bad reaction. All I could do was smile all of the time. Even when I was angry, sad, whatever...my face was perpetually frozen into that cheerful grin. I could feel muself get angry, but it was sort of seperated from me. I quit taking them when I practically beat the brain juice out of some poor girl who bumped into me in the hallway. I bashed her head into her locker until security pulled me off of her, and I was still smiling.

I manage my depression by knowing what it is and fighting it every day. I can't write when I am on any of that stuff, and the good for me is never as real when I am taking it. So I take it all, good and bad and handle it as I can. Though, it seems that my chemical levels have started to balance out to a shaky rising and falling action rather than a plunging and soaring.

DD

 

[Xelebes]

Paxil gave me some form of paralysis while I was on it and made my sister overweight. Drugs are often over-prescribed and are often thought as a quick fix er upper. I would know because I remember being under that train of thought. Now I know it is just a bunch of bullshit.

The only one on medication in my family is my brother who's depression is really really bad and needs to be regulated some how.

 

[Huckleman2000]

considering the alternative

The alternative is not treating depression, unless your insurance covers a reasonable, ongoing talk-therapy regimen. Most only cover a certain number of Psychologist visits per year, which amount to about 3 months or so of weekly visits. In my experience, the best situation is drugs plus therapy, but at 3 months of therapy, the heavy work has just begun. It takes 6-8 weeks just to unload your baggage and develop a trust with the therapist.
Unfortunately, the system doesn't really cover the optimum, which is combined drug and therapy. The drugs will get you out of the hole, but unless you develop new thought patterns, it's damned difficult to keep from sliding back into it.
I agree with the poster above who pointed out that the initial energizing effect of ADs is just enough to get some people off their backs and able to carry out the suicidal impulse. The early AD experience has to be monitored closely, especially in adolescents.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I did notice increased rage when I was taking Effexor, and I hear that's a fairly common side effect.

I belive that there are several different types of depression. There's that feeling of total apathy, there's one that mostly concerns despair, and there's another where your anger's directed at yourself. If your depression contains a lot of self-directed rage, I can see where something like Effexor could be pretty hazardous.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I noted the increased anger with effexor Doc. For me, it was really more like an irritability, my patience for and ability to put up with even minor irritations was far less. That particular effect went away when I cut back from three a day to just 1 and went back on the remeron overnight.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

I've taken Effexor for a few years, with an increase about a year ago. I've never had any notable side effects including any to do with anger or rage. (The only thing lately that provokes anger in me is a political thread here. )

We are all unique in body and mind; it's a wonder there are drugs developed that can actually help a majority of sufferers.

As for drugs for children, I do believe those in charge need to be much more careful. When my sons were very young I even questioned giving them antibiotics. A child's physiology is such a different thing than an adult's.

Perdita

 

[ABSTRUSE]

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

I saw this on a website while researching depression, it's very good for someone having these thoughts. Wish I found it last week.
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

I might help somone else here or someone you know.

~A~

 

[Huckleman2000]

I've taken Effexor for a few years, with an increase about a year ago. I've never had any notable side effects including any to do with anger or rage. (The only thing lately that provokes anger in me is a political thread here. )

Perdita

I've been on Effexor for a few years too, and I do have dreams where I rage a bit - it's disconcerting when I wake up. But I think I've always had those dreams from time to time.

Prozac just made me an emotional flatliner.

They keep prescribing Wellbutrin for me as well, but I'm not convinced it does anything. The newer extended release ones seem to work better, and they don't smell like farts. I guess that counts for something.

My gut feeling is that I need something more akin to an ADD drug. The Effexor and Wellbutrin are supposed to hit the Norephinephrine neurotransmitters, which supposedly affect energy levels. I think my lack of energy is because I can't hold on to one thread for very long, and the constant strain to focus becomes mentally exhausting.

I'm sure this post sounds strange, at least; I re-read this post and think, WTF? Still, depression and mental illness are real, biological pathologies, a truth that I still find disconcerting at some level.

 

[Remec]

To me they are. there may be fall out, even serious side effects, but that pales in comaprrison to the way the world becomes colorless, litstless and futile when I am depressed.

Not to make light of such things, but the world's not usually colorless, listless, and futile? Damn, must be me then.