Accepting Consequences

[Lucifer_Carroll]

So basically I've been having a lot of thoughts hitting me in close proximity, but one thing that's been winning dominance in this culture is the act of accepting consequences and how much it varies between all of us. I'm not just talking about accepting the consequences for an act, such as accepting that an argument has the potential to hurt feelings and hurt bonds, but also consequences of thought.

One example was when I was remembering Colly. I've always been a bit too zen and introverted for my own good and as such I've never had any ability in actively making friends or in expanding existing friendships via effort. As a consequence of that, I never knew any personal details or had any really personal conversations with a really good friend and role model.

Now these are consequences that are unavoidable. It's not like I can easily delude myself into imagining she's going to come back. Most people would act the same. But while I was dwelling on that, I noticed that on future things, especially in semi-utopian dreams for the future that this doesn't always crop up.

Some liberals for instance will actively support an ideal such as "eliminating racism" and will argue for more active pushes in that direction. However, there are consequences of truly attempting the complete and utter removal of racism (the creation of thought crimes, the neccessity for legal actions against what one thinks, perhaps a limitation on free speech for the illusion of progress) it breaks down. Some will accept these consequences and will settle for progress in the terms of education and creation of positive role models, others however will not and demand for a pushing until racism is gone despite being fervently against any attempt of thoughtcrime or freedom-limiting activity.

Libertarians who are anti-taxes also lapse into this pattern. There are some who want there to be zero taxes and thus no funding to infrastructure and "government" but still wish for the protection and justice afforded by a government. There are others who acknowledge that without some amount of infrastructure and ability of accumulating wealth, a government cannot provide stability, protection from foes, and justice when injustice occurs because they understand the consequences.

Now for me, I wouldn't mind those that know the consequences and accept them heartily. Liberals who wouldn't mind making racism a legally punishable offense if it meant one day reaching a land whether skin color no longer meant anything or Libertarians who would gladly accept an anarchy form of government and the lawlessness inherent in it. It is an acceptance of the consequences.

It is the escape from them, the denial of any consequences which is intriguing. And I mean this not just in a political way. A more personal example would be someone who is hideously abrasive to people and tends to overuse friend's generosity and then whine about having no friends without accepting the friendslessness as a consequence of their behavior. Really there are tons of examples, but I'm half-camatose on a five-day marathon of sleeplessness.

What do y'all think?


And a quick apologetic *HUSG* to anyone who thinks my political examples are unfair or malign them or their viewpoints. It wasn't intended like that, though I'll accept the consequences of the failure of my intentions if they arise.

 

[neonlyte]

Luc,
As usual your post provides an almost embarrassing clarity of truth. I do so admire your abiliity to confront yourself.

The consequence of failure took me a long time to accept. What do I mean by failure? Well, we can fail friends, we can fail to achieve a given task, or a task we set ourselves. We can fail to accept or accommodate another persons point of view, the colour of their skin, their sexuality, or political leaning. The list is almost endless, of tangible things, black or white, left or right and largely conditioned by background, principles and belief.

There is another kind of failure, conditioned by fear. Fear is good, it stops us from taking reckless steps that might endanger ourselves or others, but fear can also stop you from reaching beyond yourself to achieve a goal. A simple example are the newbies who join any forum, almost less so here at Lit because they are joining a 'club' bound by an ideology of sexuality. On conventional writers forums you can almost smell the newbies fear of joining. Their first post generally is along the lines of 'I've been looking at this site for weeks, or months or a year and finally summoned the courage to join'. The fear of rejection. Fear of not fitting in, of being seen as weak, unsubstantial. Fear of not knowing anyone.

Fear of rejection is the very last quality demanded of someone who wants to be published, but I suspect it conditions many of us and compromises the way in which we perform at all levels of our lives. Too easily do we equate rejection with failure. To be rejected, spurned, or ignored is not to have failed. Failure is in not making the attempt and too often we don't make the attempt because we fear rejection. It's a slap in the face, a dent in our pride, an embarrassment, and we hide away our rejection out of fear of others discovering that 'we've failed'. Tuck it away out of sight, maybe we pretend it never happened; and in doing that, we fail to come on even terms with rejection, we don't examine why we were cast aside. it might have been the tone of our voice, the colour of our skin, the philosophy we proclaim, the style of our writing, our proclivity. The variables are endless, as endless as the variables within the person who made the rejection.

Without understanding rejection, you cannot be prepared for failure. We all fail in some things. Failure is a natural part of the process of achievement. Things rarely work first time, when they do, you are pleasantly surprised. Think of putting a thread in the eye of a needle, you know you can do it, but it might take you half a dozen attempts. You don't throw down the needle and thread on the first failure, and you smile if you get it right first time, because you didn't expect to.

I was on another writers web site yesterday, looking over a newbies first story. The critics on that site are harsh people, and the story was heavily slammed. About half way down the posts, the writer said she was leaving, she clearly wasn't a writer, that she was embarrassed to have wasted peoples time. Who failed here? Not the writer, but the critics whom I suspect have failed to come on terms with their own rejection and and visit their fear upon others.

The consequence of failure is a refusal to understand it as part of a process, learn from rejection (in all spheres of your life) and not hide it away, and apply the lessons of your failure to understand the impact rejection can have on others with whom you deal on a daily basis. Of course this advice, if that is what it is, will not help you with publishers who have a moral duty to inflict rejection in the name of profit, but it might help you with yourself. Remember, you can't be rejected by anyone or anything until you have made the first move, don't let fear of failure block your path.

 

[S-Des]

Luc,
There is another kind of failure, conditioned by fear. Fear is good, it stops us from taking reckless steps that might endanger ourselves or others, but fear can also stop you from reaching beyond yourself to achieve a goal. A simple example are the newbies who join any forum, almost less so here at Lit because they are joining a 'club' bound by an ideology of sexuality. On conventional writers forums you can almost smell the newbies fear of joining. Their first post generally is along the lines of 'I've been looking at this site for weeks, or months or a year and finally summoned the courage to join'. The fear of rejection. Fear of not fitting in, of being seen as weak, unsubstantial. Fear of not knowing anyone.

Wow, I have nothing to add, but damn that was well said.

 

[rgraham666]

Luc, we live in a society that does not allow for error, and thus for personal consequences i.e. responsibility.

Most of us belong to a group of one sort or another, a structure. The structure takes on the authourity and responsibility. We just follow orders.

We've been taught that's how it is and most of us accept that.

Even the 'individualists' amongst us are bound to a structure, the ideology of individualism. It demands, they obey. They can do no wrong and if people get hurt, that's simply a consequence of pursuing the truth. So there's no responsibility involved.

Shrugs. Who can blame people for thinking that way? Responsibility is a heavy burden. And many people are lazy.

 

[impressive]

I take the opposite approach from Rob in that I believe we cannot escape the consequences of our behavior, our choices. It's not a matter of "acceptance." Regardless of whether we face it with good grace or bitch to anyone who'll listen, those consequences do not go away. They may be mitigated, to some extent, by how much we whine.

In fact, how we choose to greet those consequences has additional consequences. It can bring respect. It can push people away. It can make our lives hell or open doors.

The same worn maxim applies: We cannot choose HOW we feel, but we CAN choose how we react to those feelings.

To act without regard for the consequences and then exhibit surprise or anger when those consequences rain down upon you is a sign of either arrogance or stupidity (or both).

Behavior is a fascinating subject for study.

 

[Guest]

. . . I was on another writers web site yesterday, looking over a newbies first story. The critics on that site are harsh people, and the story was heavily slammed. About half way down the posts, the writer said she was leaving, she clearly wasn't a writer, that she was embarrassed to have wasted peoples time. Who failed here? Not the writer, but the critics whom I suspect have failed to come on terms with their own rejection and and visit their fear upon others. . .

So, did you invite her to Lit?

 

[rgraham666]

Actually imp, I agree with you. Actions always have consequences. And if they're our actions, they're our consequences.

But our training tries to separate the two.

Forgive me if I wasn't clear, short night, not enough sleep.

 

[Recidiva]

There are consequences for just being a certain way. Colly and I shared migraines and her death prompted me in a way to be a bit more honest than usual with my sister about my illness. It's always been my fault that I'm sick, I saw that in Colly also. Unable to be treated, unable to escape, and bearing that burden with grace.

I've learned that my family considers my illness to be my doing. That I use it to be manipulative and to escape my proper responsibilities.

Partially infuriated for Colly's sake and partially knowing this is how people see things they have no compassion about: "You don't act like other people, what do you expect?" "You chose to be gay, this is what you get" "You live your life in a way that makes you sick and you need to be rescued, you're manipulative" "You're only doing it for the attention."

There are consequences that are undeserved. But they have to be borne. There's no changing some minds when it's so easy to blame someone else for how things are. Truly insult to injury.

And as I know Colly knew, the only thing you can arm yourself with is strength and forgiveness. Those are the only things you have control over yourself. Yes, wrath. No doubt. But that controls you.

I can't control certain consequences, can't stem them, can't alter them. I can only bear them alone. Sometimes I consider that compulsory community service.

 

[impressive]

There are consequences that are undeserved. But they have to be borne. There's no changing some minds when it's so easy to blame someone else for how things are. Truly insult to injury.

And as I know Colly knew, the only thing you can arm yourself with is strength and forgiveness. Those are the only things you have control over yourself. Yes, wrath. No doubt. But that controls you.

I can't control certain consequences, can't stem them, can't alter them. I can only bear them alone. Sometimes I consider that compulsory community service.

Extraordinarily well said!

 

[SesameStreet]

I take the opposite approach from Rob in that I believe we cannot escape the consequences of our behavior, our choices. It's not a matter of "acceptance." Regardless of whether we face it with good grace or bitch to anyone who'll listen, those consequences do not go away. They may be mitigated, to some extent, by how much we whine.

In fact, how we choose to greet those consequences has additional consequences. It can bring respect. It can push people away. It can make our lives hell or open doors.

The same worn maxim applies: We cannot choose HOW we feel, but we CAN choose how we react to those feelings.

To act without regard for the consequences and then exhibit surprise or anger when those consequences rain down upon you is a sign of either arrogance or stupidity (or both).

Behavior is a fascinating subject for study.

Very well said, impressive. I agree with you completely.

 

[neonlyte]

So, did you invite her to Lit?

What... on a first date? Shame on you

I will do that. She will not be the first who has come across.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I can't control certain consequences, can't stem them, can't alter them. I can only bear them alone.

You don't have to bear them alone... that's what a community is for.

That's what Colly found here, and look how much joy she got from it, and how much joy she brought...

it isn't in the doing, it's in the being... It isn't what you do about something that happens, it's who you are in the midst of it...

Colly bore her illness with a great deal of grace and so do you, Diva...

on a side note, I had my first ever migraine this year, and whatever fleeting thoughts of "come on, it can't be THAT bad" I might have had about my sister's complaints about migraines went RIGHT out the window... apparently, I need to be shown... slow learner, me...

 

[Recidiva]

You don't have to bear them alone... that's what a community is for.

That's what Colly found here, and look how much joy she got from it, and how much joy she brought...

it isn't in the doing, it's in the being... It isn't what you do about something that happens, it's who you are in the midst of it...

Colly bore her illness with a great deal of grace and so do you, Diva...

on a side note, I had my first ever migraine this year, and whatever fleeting thoughts of "come on, it can't be THAT bad" I might have had about my sister's complaints about migraines went RIGHT out the window... apparently, I need to be shown... slow learner, me...

It's so hard. There are times I come here for support, and times when I have to withdraw because of the sheer helplessness. And knowing someone loves me somehow makes the pain easier and harder to bear at once. And then definitely harder in some ways, undeniably. Because someone's told me that I don't deserve this. So the injustice is tacked on. Supportive and yet still a weight to wonder why.

I know what she meant about wanting oblivion, and sometimes it's easier to imagine it. Clean, free, painless. But remembering the ones you love makes you fight, and sometimes you don't want to fight any more. Because you know you'll fight harder for the ones you love, than yourself.

And when you're at your weakest, and you just want to collapse, and you're going to collapse and worse, you're in the company of just exactly what breaks you, what nobody wants to have you broken by, and you see the gap, and it's unbridgeable. You surely can't share that with those you love. Watered down, perhaps. Put eloquently. Put poetically. But you can't take that pain and put it in someone else's head. And that's what it would take to share that space.

The worst part is having this be such a huge thing, constant companion. And not wanting to sound like a broken record, but having little else to say for yourself. So you find ways to entertain yourself and skip out of that groove, at least temporarily. You think in the dark and the pain, it's comfort and company. Dark and pain are second nature.

But by seeing everyone else's sunlight, and flowers, getting dragged back to hell just makes it seem harsher than the last time I was there. I've got more to lose on my way down. It's the contrast between staying in hell where you don't have to do much about it, and being transported back from heaven to hell, do you dig in your will each time? Or do you just...fall...and maybe not climb back out? Tempting.

 

[minsue]

on a side note, I had my first ever migraine this year, and whatever fleeting thoughts of "come on, it can't be THAT bad" I might have had about my sister's complaints about migraines went RIGHT out the window... apparently, I need to be shown... slow learner, me...

You're not the only one. Most people who don't suffer from migraines are like that. It's hard to comprehend until it happens to you.



A thoughtful and thought provoking thread, Luc. As I knew it would be because you started it. I'll be back when I've gotten my scattered thoughts in order. Until then, just this - please, cut yourself some slack. I hate to see you so hard on yourself all the time.

 

[neonlyte]

*bump* because Luc's words are worth reading

 

[Liar]

And this is why I'm a fanatic commonsenseinist.

 

[minsue]

Accepting the consequences of our actions seems to be less and less of value in our culture. We are all victims, if you believe the lawyers' commercials and armchair psychiatrists, and nothing is our own fault any more. It appears that the first thing one is expected to do when something bad happens is to figure out who to blame.

We have managed to raise generations of Americans who accept no responsibility for the consequences of their own actions. Worse yet, based on the television commercials I've seen in the UK, we appear to be exporting that mindset along with our pop culture and fast food.

I find it all very sad.

The political consequences that you've listed are ones that I've thought of myself. I've yet to come to a decision as to what consequences I'm willing to live with when it comes to things like destroying racism, sexism, and other prejudices. I think it's likely something that I'll struggle with for some time before I figure out exactly how far I'm willing to go.

Regardless, I'm all for a come back of personal responsibility in our culture.


(sorry if I've missed the main point or not made much sense, Luc. )

 

[Belegon]

Yes Luc, one thing you need to do on occassion is cut yourself SOME slack...as such I've never had any ability in actively making friends or in expanding existing friendships via effort...*cough*bullshit*cough*...you have ability, but like all skills it needs practice to improve...that said, I appreciate that you are the way you are.

Surprise! Imp and I have similar thoughts on this...that you can not help how you feel but you damn sure do have some control on the actions you take about it...

The decline of personal responsibility is such an overwhelming part of our culture now that it is hard to pinpoint where it started or why....but I know that I also am sick of the whole "it is someone else's fault" attitude, as I am also sick of the people who stand on a soapbox and rant and rave but have no wish to contribute to a cure for the ill they are ranting about or who think that they are supporting a cause by putting a bumper sticker decrying our dependance on foreign oil on the back of their Hummer...

I think the first step is within us...the more of us who act responsibly, the more others will (hopefully). And for those of us who are parents, we can have even more impact. Can you imagine Logo's kids growing up to believe in homosexualty as a disease, or Imp's kids growing up to believe that disabled people are less human?

 

[Recidiva]

I think the first step is within us...the more of us who act responsibly, the more others will (hopefully). And for those of us who are parents, we can have even more impact. Can you imagine Logo's kids growing up to believe in homosexualty as a disease, or Imp's kids growing up to believe that disabled people are less human?

As to this, the ability of children to reject what their parents teach has been shown time and time again.

I rejected a lot of what my parents taught, which was negative. My husband's father was in the KKK and he's not bigoted.

Although I have an influence in my children's lives, they have their own thoughts. I'm at most a sounding board. I provide a menu of thought. They think what they want about it. But then again this is allowed with me, you can tell me as a parent you disagree. And they do.

This wasn't really allowed with me growing up, but I'm a stubborn wench and held onto my thoughts. Didn't voice them, but held onto them.

 

[impressive]

As to this, the ability of children to reject what their parents teach has been shown time and time again.

True. But leading by example is the best chance we've got to turn the tide.

 

[Recidiva]

True. But leading by example is the best chance we've got to turn the tide.

Absolutely! As to the menu of thought, there's no way getting out of years of living with me without having to at least taste the ideas I live by. You don't have to like it, but if you don't, you will have to explain why you won't try even a little bite

 

[CharleyH]

Well, I think you could have said it all in fewer words, Luc.

but one thing that's been winning dominance in this culture is the act of accepting consequences

I mulled over this sentance again and again, as it seemed a bit out of place and immediately from the rest. Do you mean that accepting consequence has become ... nothing more than something one does to facilitate an illusion of truthfuness?

In my understanding of you (and I may be very wrong) you are an existentialist, and so consequences of actions - I get, especially as you articulate in your post. Yet, I will wait a bit to give an op on that.