Academia

[Dougy]

Academia gets a bad rap because of the predominance of the results oriented, mechanistic world view that Samurai is perpetuating. The implication that abstraction is not a valid pursuit is to me a depressing prospect. I will grant you that the real world demands 'messier' solutions, but that in no way means that the advancement of knowledge is unnecessary or unimportant.

I have often thought about, and attempted to read things that would enhance my knowledge of, the world around me. Why is secular reflection on life given so much less legitimacy than religious reflection?

 

[lavender]

 

[deliciously_naughty]

As a member of academia...my two cents worth....

If we're talking about the k-12 level academia...a lot of the resentment comes from a misconception of the job. Short hours, you just stand up and talk at kids, summers off...you know...all the lies that people tell themselves. People say "those who can't do, teach" when the reality is that most who do something can't give an adequate explanation of their methodology to teach it.

If we're talking college level...I would disagree. If someone says they're a college professor, I usually find that they are seen with a degree of respect, if only because they hold a PhD. In addition, most professors are published authors as well, which adds to the prestige. However, I can see that people could percieve it as "cushy" No it's not a 9-5 job, but sometimes it's a 7am to 11pm job in between prepping for a class, advising a thesis, acting on a committe, researching/writing/editing your next book...etc etc etc. And what on earth do you think most profs on sabbatical are doing? That's right...writing their next book. Because you don't get tenure without one or two under your belt and the promise of more to come.

 

[Dougy]

Simple.

You won't go to hell for not getting a degree.

You joke, but it is a serious issue. Do we need a threat to care about the state of the world enough to give some thought to its improvement? I would say that we are all in danger of going to a proverbial hell if we continue to act based on our own needs and 'getting something accomplished'.

I know I am now officially off the thread topic, but still...

And grad students, particularly in more esoteric fields, get little to no respect in my experience. So are you saying that you only get respect once you have succeeded? Should we only have respect for people on a Board of Directors too?

 

[deliciously_naughty]

And grad students, particularly in more esoteric fields, get little to no respect in my experience. So are you saying that you only get respect once you have succeeded? Should we only have respect for people on a Board of Directors too?

I don't know what planet you live on that grad students get any kind of respect

Seriously though...I would say yes, we tend to reserve approval for those who have tangible sucess (a PhD, a book, a million dollar bank account). I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying this is how it works. Personally, I tend to have respect for those who have earned it...women I've met who have balanced jobs, marriages and motherhood and did a good job at all three for example, or people who succeeded against all odds. I tend to have little respect for those who recieve "sucess" too easily (ie they inherited it, such as W). A meritocracy is a nice fantasy and in all fairness, is how the world should work. But that's not the world we live in.

 

[Cheyenne]

So why do you think academia gets such a bad rap? Why do you think that people in the "real world" with corporate jobs or the like think so lowly of academia?

I really don't get it.

I respect those who have proven they can actually do something more than those who just tell you how they would do it. The best professors, in my opinion, are those who have actually worked in their area of expertise, not just gone to school and written paper upon paper to show their "knowledge." The best accounting professor I know spent his summers working in a Big 8 (at the time) firm so that he could teach from a better knowledge base during the school year.

Also, from personal experience I can tell you that after 4 years of college, I had accounting theory down cold. But I had no clue how to really do an audit until I got into public accounting and learned the practical side of all the academic stuff I had in my head. Theory is great, if you only live in a theoretical world.

 

[Never]

Are you saying you could do everything you're doing now with none of the education?

 

[Hamletmaschine]

So why do you think academia gets such a bad rap? Why do you think that people in the "real world" with corporate jobs or the like think so lowly of academia?

I really don't get it.

People mistrust what they don't understand.

 

[Jedi_Outcast]

I used to work at a small university and for the most part the faculty sucked, a bunch of nimrods and assholes. They thought they were better that the average joe because they had tenure. I was THE IT department at the time, I got sick of explaining to them how the tech worked, then having to sit through thier class while the butchered my explanation.

The best profs were the ones who worked in thier fields during the day and taught at night, the part timers really knew thier shit, because the had too. There were a older prof that I really respected, he paid his dues in the "real" world, didn't know much about modern tech, but was very appreciative of the help the staff (me) gave him.

That is why I give much more credence to an indoustry certification than a CS degree, at lease with an MSCE I know that the guys who wrote the software say "he knows his shit" not some college prof who doesn't know TCP/IP from IPX.

Now I'm not going after the research profs or the humanities guys. I'd say 60% of the tech we use today came from university labs. Humanities have thier place, I woudn't make a career out of it, but they have thier place". I'm just going after the guys who just sit back and collect the pay without giving the knowledge the students paid for. (which is most of them)

 

[Samuari]

Academia gets a bad rap because of the predominance of the results oriented, mechanistic world view that Samurai is perpetuating. The implication that abstraction is not a valid pursuit is to me a depressing prospect. I will grant you that the real world demands 'messier' solutions, but that in no way means that the advancement of knowledge is unnecessary or unimportant.

I'm sorry that you got that impression of my thinking, because it is far from what I think that I think. Abstraction is a valid pursuit becuse that is what gives us standards to judge actions by, and measure progress with. The advancement of knowaldge is in everyone's best interest. It is in the application of that knowaldge that the real wold incounters the "ivory tower".



But really this is off the topic of the thread, and what I was trying to do was answer Lavy's question.

 

[Sandia]

Academia is primarily liberal and business is primarily conservative I would guess.

That's a good point, Sillyman.

As usual, I'm gonna go off topic and say what I have against it, instead of why other people don't like it...

It's too much of a rat race. Too many people building sandcastles in the air, not because they care about what they're doing or even because they think it's important, but because they think what they're doing is impressive. It's showmanship. One-upmanship. Struggling over prestige, not genuine research or... whatever.

That's what I dislike about academia.

Not that it's all bad, of course.

 

[Hamletmaschine]

. . . It's too much of a rat race. Too many people building sandcastles in the air, not because they care about what they're doing or even because they think it's important, but because they think what they're doing is impressive. It's showmanship. One-upmanship. Struggling over prestige, not genuine research or... whatever. . . .

LOL

And of course that never happens in any other business or profession.