Abuse: is there such a thing in the 'lifestyle'?

[Netzach]

I personally DO NOT use CP in my relationship for behavior modification because it makes me much much hotter to just backhand someone because I feel like it. Because it IS unfair, completely without merit other than it makes him aroused and it makes me aroused. And the fact that I can and will do it because I feel like it is a reinforcement of power.

In a world of D/s contracts, I prefer at will employment.

This does not render me an antisocial uncaring or abusive person. I do it with grown men of their own volition. Men who have decided that the amount of control and power they want in relation to me is zero.

A situation that, from outside it looks remarkably abusive and one-sided.

 

[JMohegan]

then what exactly is your point to all of this? you are comparing things abused women say to what Master chooses as His punishment for me. the difference in those things is CONSENT, and that He is not lashing out at me in anger when He punishes me, He doesn't punish me for no reason, and i'm sorry but i cannot agree that there is no difference between an abusive husband coming home from work and punching and kicking his partner because he's had a bad day, and Master punishing me when i've done wrong.....they are NOTHING alike, totally and completely different things.He is not harming me in any way when He punishes me with the crop, where my ex husband HARMED me many times by punching me, kicking me, throwing things at me, etc...HUGE difference....where do you see these things as the same????

If I write "Corporal punishment in a consensual D/s relationship looks the same on the surface, but of course it is very different" and you come back to me with this question, I can only conclude that I am writing in English and you are reading it as Chinese.

Since we suffer from such an appalling failure to communicate on this subject, I suggest that we cease trying to do so.

 

[JMohegan]

I am not talking about quid pro quo commerce. I am talking about a situation in which the money transfers hands as a sign of power imbalance. That is the scene. I'm given something, which would normally inspire gratitude. It inspires spit and "you can leave now."

The people treated to this behavior knew in advance that they would or might be. If you're informed "expect anything" then you're informed, yes?

Yes. I agree.

I personally DO NOT use CP in my relationship for behavior modification because it makes me much much hotter to just backhand someone because I feel like it. Because it IS unfair, completely without merit other than it makes him aroused and it makes me aroused. And the fact that I can and will do it because I feel like it is a reinforcement of power.

In a world of D/s contracts, I prefer at will employment.

This does not render me an antisocial uncaring or abusive person. I do it with grown men of their own volition. Men who have decided that the amount of control and power they want in relation to me is zero.

A situation that, from outside it looks remarkably abusive and one-sided.

This is an honest post reflecting self-awareness and confidence for which I have immense respect.

And just for the record, I don't think that what you do renders you an antisocial uncaring or abusive person either.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

If I write "Corporal punishment in a consensual D/s relationship looks the same on the surface, but of course it is very different" and you come back to me with this question, I can only conclude that I am writing in English and you are reading it as Chinese.

Since we suffer from such an appalling failure to communicate on this subject, I suggest that we cease trying to do so.

JM, my point is exactly that ...in one post you say it's different, yet in another post you compare the two..that is where i'm confused.....

 

[Pure]

JMLet's divide pain into two categories.

Type A: Pain that is converted into physical pleasure.

Type B: Pain that just plain *hurts*.

It is relatively easy to accept Type A activities as legitimate, in our own or another relationship. But the issues surrounding Type B are more complex.

Personally I think we all have not just a right but an obligation to ask questions about activities involving Type B pain. I don't find name-calling or pejorative labelling to be particularly helpful, but I do think that questions about the nature and purpose of Type B activities are reasonable and in fact helpful in advancing the common understanding of the difference between abuse and healthy D/s.

I also believe that those who publicly tout their own Type B actitivies have a responsibility to provide calm and rational explanations if questioned about what they do.

P: i read you, JM. and a couple answers like Netzach's are 'it turns me on.' these seem like good answers.

master phoenix's answer, that it seems appropriate to maintain the power dynamic, is a little hard to read. perhaps he *knows* that physical pain will ensure continued submission (consensual). i'm not sure how he'd know that, but if he and his partner agree on these 'corporal episodes' and that they're salutary, what can one say.
-----

i will say, JM, that the types are vastly oversimplified. 1) a pain that's 'converted' is going to depend on the circumstance, intentions, expectations. i can imagine a needle through a nipple being quite 'converted' one time, for Person X, but not another.

2) pain that just hurts seems clear until one reflects a bit: yes i know bamboo under the nails, and the dentist's drill hurt; most people. but if one hypnotizes one self, he can under dental drilling. the mind has the final say.

consider the events in the story "Branded". a woman, by her consent is tied up and then branded. no[w], the red hot iron did apparently cause intense pain; but the lead up, the tying, and the after events and after care had, i think, an erotic quality. so do we say the branding is type A or type B?


regardless of the above your scheme doesn't seem to have a clear application to psychological pain (discomfort, distress). what is the reaction to hearing "you're a debased little slut' and being made to act accordingly, in front of others? (e.g. lick piss off the floor).

for the humiliation person HP, im supposing you'll say it's converted, but for MS Vanilla, next door, it's not. so are you claiming there's no 'sting' in the HP during the hearing and the doing? perhaps there is 'hurt', *but it's accompanied by arousal.*

 

[lil_slave_rose]

master phoenix's answer, that it seems appropriate to maintain the power dynamic, is a little hard to read. perhaps he *knows* that physical pain will ensure continued submission (consensual). i'm not sure how he'd know that, but if he and his partner agree on these 'corporal episodes' and that they're salutary, what can one say.

it's not about 'physical pain ensuring that i continue to submit' no one on this board/forum uses 'physical' punishment as a means to correct a behavior in their submissive?? i find it hard to believe that no one understands this. you say 'corporal episodes' as if it happens all of the time. i've been physically punished ONE time. He has explained Himself on this 4 times now, and i know you were not asking Him to do so again, pure, but i felt like you had a couple of things wrong so i wanted to answer, i am hoping that you know i'm not trying to offend or argue.....
---------------------------------------
as i said in an earlier post i truly regret that i ever said anything on this board about it, because now it has been taken out of another thread and made out to be something it wasn't, and has been used to make Master justify His actions in said punishment,when honestly He doesn't (just as anyone else) have to justify His actions to anyone. i entered into a power exchange relationship and knew from the beginning that there would be punishments physical as well as non physical.

cat said in an earlier post that no one is being attacked but it sure feels like our relationship is under attack and if being told to 'grow tougher skin, stand by your words, and shut your god damned hole' or calling someone a dumbass or saying they are full of shit isn't a personal attack, i'd sure like to know what it is...it surely is not 'debating' as in my opinion, when you resort to name calling and cussing, you've pretty much lost all credibility. (note: this paragraph has NOTHING to do with pure, i quoted her statement and made my comments that apply to her post in the first paragraph and my comments to her statement end at the dotted line, i'm just too lazy right now to quote another statement and make a post about it so i'm doing it all in one)

i am also not sure what Master's punishments to me (as few as they have been) have to do with the subject at hand, that is 'Abuse in the lifestyle' *shrugs* just some pondering i've been doing after re-reading through all of these pages of posts.......

 

[catalina_francisco]

it's not about 'physical pain ensuring that i continue to submit' no one on this board/forum uses 'physical' punishment as a means to correct a behavior in their submissive?? i find it hard to believe that no one understands this. you say 'corporal episodes' as if it happens all of the time. i've been physically punished ONE time. He has explained Himself on this 4 times now, and i know you were not asking Him to do so again, pure, but i felt like you had a couple of things wrong so i wanted to answer, i am hoping that you know i'm not trying to offend or argue.....
---------------------------------------
as i said in an earlier post i truly regret that i ever said anything on this board about it, because now it has been taken out of another thread and made out to be something it wasn't, and has been used to make Master justify His actions in said punishment,when honestly He doesn't (just as anyone else) have to justify His actions to anyone. i entered into a power exchange relationship and knew from the beginning that there would be punishments physical as well as non physical.

cat said in an earlier post that no one is being attacked but it sure feels like our relationship is under attack and if being told to 'grow tougher skin, stand by your words, and shut your god damned hole' or calling someone a dumbass or saying they are full of shit isn't a personal attack, i'd sure like to know what it is...it surely is not 'debating' as in my opinion, when you resort to name calling and cussing, you've pretty much lost all credibility. (note: this paragraph has NOTHING to do with pure, i quoted her statement and made my comments that apply to her post in the first paragraph and my comments to her statement end at the dotted line, i'm just too lazy right now to quote another statement and make a post about it so i'm doing it all in one)

i am also not sure what Master's punishments to me (as few as they have been) have to do with the subject at hand, that is 'Abuse in the lifestyle' *shrugs* just some pondering i've been doing after re-reading through all of these pages of posts.......

True, I am not into name calling etc., but I don't htink you both have been attacked as much as people seeking clarification on what you (and others) have said, which is why I said it was getting too much about semantics and not the real discussion. I also said that for the same reasons I think some are asking so many quesrions of you both, which once again comes back to clarifying what is said and wht is meant and what is actually understood....all things which for me have at times seemed to have gaps in them, but which I don't find astounding at this point. If I were you, I would concentrate on the positivity of the thread being in how many pages it has gone for in such a short time which is rare except for games threads etc., not discussion threads....to me that is one successful topic and thread discussion.

Catalina

 

[Pure]

note to rose

i am also not sure what Master's punishments to me (as few as they have been) have to do with the subject at hand, that is 'Abuse in the lifestyle' *shrugs* just some pondering i've been doing after re-reading through all of these pages of posts.......

oh, i think i can clarify (with, perhaps, what JM was getting at). we're talking about type B pains which hurt and aren't [according to JM's assumptions] eroticized ["converted"].

well, abusers dish them out quite commonly; a blow to the eye area, resulting in a 'black eye' for example. probably *not* erotic.
real blows causing real hurt, with lack of consent are abuse (assault) by defintion.

further many abusers label them as punishments (you looked at another man). indeed, some abused persons say, "I deserved it", which to me implies consent.
---

now, some SM persons say they dish out type B pains occasionally. netzach says it gets her off.

question: why is that not abuse (i assume she says it's not abuse/assault)? because it's consensual ( so she's said).

---
i think JM was trying to say that ascertaining abuse is not simply a matter of asking the person what they think they're doing; the willingness of abusers to say "punishing, as deserved" is a very sticky point, since quite good parents [or some benevolent doms] may be stating the same thing.

---
incidentally rose, none of the above is really meant to assess your relationship with MP. it appears to suit you, and is likely within the law. intentions, consents, etc. of you and him are not really known to me, so i can't for your specific case attribute assault, abuse, etc.-- or lack of them-- to your relationship. it's an unknown, to me.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

True, I am not into name calling etc., but I don't htink you both have been attacked as much as people seeking clarification on what you (and others) have said, which is why I said it was getting too much about semantics and not the real discussion. I also said that for the same reasons I think some are asking so many quesrions of you both, which once again comes back to clarifying what is said and wht is meant and what is actually understood....all things which for me have at times seemed to have gaps in them, but which I don't find astounding at this point. If I were you, I would concentrate on the positivity of the thread being in how many pages it has gone for in such a short time which is rare except for games threads etc., not discussion threads....to me that is one successful topic and thread discussion.

Catalina

i agree with you, and for the most part there has been alot of good discussion and such , but when you are asked 400 times to explain something you've already answered, it gets annoying. and starts feeling attacks. i do agree we've not been 'attacked'. but anyway, you're right this has gone on for a lot of pages, which surprised me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

i agree with you, and for the most part there has been alot of good discussion and such , but when you are asked 400 times to explain something you've already answered, it gets annoying. and starts feeling attacks. i do agree we've not been 'attacked'. but anyway, you're right this has gone on for a lot of pages, which surprised me.

My thought is that the answers you gave were not understood in the way you meant (or what was being asked was not understood exactly) similar to when I was trying to explain my thoughts and they weren't understood in the way I meant and so caused frustration for you both. It is one of the downsides of cyber space I think.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

More and more, I have trouble processing any kind of pain as pleasurable. I used to love the canes, the whips, that paddles...for the pain they gave me. Nowadays, for reasons I really don't understand, I can't process that pain as pleasurable the way I used to. It hurts when it starts and it hurts when its done and damnit, it hurts all the way through the fucking scene too.

It still isn't abusive to me in any way. I still love to "submit" to it and take it, perhaps even more so than in the past because a larger portion of the reason I'm taking it at all is for Ma'ams pleasure. So while my own pleasure isn't really coming so much from the physical *ahem* "abuse", it's still there in the fact that I immensely enjoy pleasing her by taking it. I enjoy pushing this and taking more and more pain-i-don't-really-like, even when it scares me or just plain fucking hurts like hell. *shrugs* Ain't much interested in figuring it out, I just know it works.

Not to say I don't like any pain at all, just the kinds that Ma'am tends to be most fond of can also be the ones I have the hardest time with. The enjoyment in taking pain doesn't necessarily have to come directly in the form of enjoying the actual pain itself. Some of us really get off on mind-fucks.

*edited to add...*

Which is also a big part of the reason WHY CP works for me. I don't even have that little mind-fuck of "I'm taking this for her pleasure" going on because I know she isn't enjoying punishing me and isn't doing it for her own pleasure. Hell, she may even be doing it because she's really pissed off and is taking it out on me. That IS ok for us. The pain involved in CP is punishing, it hurts in ways I can't process into other pleasures, and it really does entice me to avoid it again. It's effective, so we do it.

 

[Netzach]

More and more, I have trouble processing any kind of pain as pleasurable. I used to love the canes, the whips, that paddles...for the pain they gave me. Nowadays, for reasons I really don't understand, I can't process that pain as pleasurable the way I used to. It hurts when it starts and it hurts when its done and damnit, it hurts all the way through the fucking scene too.

It still isn't abusive to me in any way. I still love to "submit" to it and take it, perhaps even more so than in the past because a larger portion of the reason I'm taking it at all is for Ma'ams pleasure. So while my own pleasure isn't really coming so much from the physical *ahem* "abuse", it's still there in the fact that I immensely enjoy pleasing her by taking it. I enjoy pushing this and taking more and more pain-i-don't-really-like, even when it scares me or just plain fucking hurts like hell. *shrugs* Ain't much interested in figuring it out, I just know it works.

Not to say I don't like any pain at all, just the kinds that Ma'am tends to be most fond of can also be the ones I have the hardest time with. The enjoyment in taking pain doesn't necessarily have to come directly in the form of enjoying the actual pain itself. Some of us really get off on mind-fucks.

I think H is a lot like this. His ability to enjoy pain as sensation expands and contracts at different times, it seems to be very elastic. And his willingness to take the pain and his enjoyment at MY enjoyment is static.

 

[serijules]

I think H is a lot like this. His ability to enjoy pain as sensation expands and contracts at different times, it seems to be very elastic. And his willingness to take the pain and his enjoyment at MY enjoyment is static.

Exactly

 

[catalina_francisco]

More and more, I have trouble processing any kind of pain as pleasurable. I used to love the canes, the whips, that paddles...for the pain they gave me. Nowadays, for reasons I really don't understand, I can't process that pain as pleasurable the way I used to. It hurts when it starts and it hurts when its done and damnit, it hurts all the way through the fucking scene too.

Have been there more times than I wish to remember, and in some ways are still there with some activities. Like D, F tends to pick those things which are more difficult to process in terms of pain, partly because they are some of his favourites and partly ebcause he likes to know it is hurting beyond pleasureable in the usual sense. Why it changes I am not sure though for me I suspect it can be any number of things including skin being a little drier than usual, emotional sensitivity, other issues under the surface which I have not dealt with or perhaps mentioned to him. Hope you continue to find a way through this and even get back to the pleasure zone of before.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Which is also a big part of the reason WHY CP works for me. I don't even have that little mind-fuck of "I'm taking this for her pleasure" going on because I know she isn't enjoying punishing me and isn't doing it for her own pleasure. Hell, she may even be doing it because she's really pissed off and is taking it out on me. That IS ok for us. The pain involved in CP is punishing, it hurts in ways I can't process into other pleasures, and it really does entice me to avoid it again. It's effective, so we do it.

so we are not the only ones who do not find CP to be enjoyable for either party. i knew there was someone else out there LOL. you have it explained it much better than i ever could have and i agree 100% especially the last part about hurting in ways you cannot process into other pleasures and enticing you to avoide it again. very effective. and alot of it for me is in my mind to, in knowing that i have displeased Master..so yea..it works for us too

 

[catalina_francisco]

so we are not the only ones who do not find CP to be enjoyable for either party. i knew there was someone else out there LOL. you have it explained it much better than i ever could have and i agree 100% especially the last part about hurting in ways you cannot process into other pleasures and enticing you to avoide it again. very effective. and alot of it for me is in my mind to, in knowing that i have displeased Master..so yea..it works for us too

Ah, not the only 2....I have mentioned before that we use pain for punishment and it is far from pleasureable. Then again, though he always has used pain and once it was the reason behind it which caused the pain, these days he tends to move beyond CP methods which are normally included in our lifestyle to the more extreme areas which make any chance of pleasure a definate no.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

i will say, JM, that the types are vastly oversimplified. 1) a pain that's 'converted' is going to depend on the circumstance, intentions, expectations. i can imagine a needle through a nipple being quite 'converted' one time, for Person X, but not another.

2) pain that just hurts seems clear until one reflects a bit: yes i know bamboo under the nails, and the dentist's drill hurt; most people. but if one hypnotizes one self, he can under dental drilling. the mind has the final say.

consider the events in the story "Branded". a woman, by her consent is tied up and then branded. not the red hot iron did apparently cause intense pain; but the lead up, the tying, and the after events and after care had, i think, an erotic quality. so do we say the branding is type A or type B?

I agree that the Type A vs. Type B categories are over-simplified.

For example, if you note the delightful responses provided by Shank in post 300, Wench in 301, and Cutiemouse in 317, you'll see evidence that even though pain is not converted into immediate physical pleasure, the Type B arousal of the Top frequently causes arousal in the bottom.

Though over-generalized, the intent of identifying two categories was to acknowledge the fact that consensual D/s activities involving physical pain are not always done for the direct purpose of arousing or pleasing the bottom.

Examples of these Type B activities include:

1 - Dominant comes home from a frustrating day at work and takes out his bad mood on the submissive's backside.

2 - Dominant finds the words or behavior of the submissive unacceptable and imposes corporal punishment.

3 - Dominant & submissive engaging in behavior commonly referred to as "pain play", and the Dominant deliberately takes things beyond the pain/pleasure for the submissive to the point where it truly just *hurts*.

Each of these examples, on the surface, bears similarity to the actions of DV perps. So what distinguishes legitimate, consensual D/s Type B activities from DV-style abuse? The answer is: consensual D/s Type B behavior satisfies and fulfills both parties on some level.

To read a description of the satisfaction and fulfillment found in example 1-style D/s, I recommend reading posts by someone like osg.

To read a description of the satisfaction and fulfillment found in example 2- style D/s, I recommend reading posts written by Serijules, both this one (the same one to which I linked earlier on this thread) and also post 336, above.

Post 336 by Serijules also gives an eloquent description of the satisfaction and fulfillment found in example 3-style D/s.

regardless of the above your scheme doesn't seem to have a clear application to psychological pain (discomfort, distress). what is the reaction to hearing "you're a debased little slut' and being made to act accordingly, in front of others? (e.g. lick piss off the floor).

for the humiliation person HP, im supposing you'll say it's converted, but for MS Vanilla, next door, it's not. so are you claiming there's no 'sting' in the HP during the hearing and the doing? perhaps there is 'hurt', *but it's accompanied by arousal.*

I don't do degradation, so I'll leave comments on Type A vs. Type B in this context to others, should they choose to respond.


Pure - if you don't mind me asking, are you male or female? As a matter of common courtesy, I would like to use the appropriate pronoun if necessary when referring to you or your posts.

 

[JMohegan]

More and more, I have trouble processing any kind of pain as pleasurable. I used to love the canes, the whips, that paddles...for the pain they gave me. Nowadays, for reasons I really don't understand, I can't process that pain as pleasurable the way I used to. It hurts when it starts and it hurts when its done and damnit, it hurts all the way through the fucking scene too.

It still isn't abusive to me in any way. I still love to "submit" to it and take it, perhaps even more so than in the past because a larger portion of the reason I'm taking it at all is for Ma'ams pleasure. So while my own pleasure isn't really coming so much from the physical *ahem* "abuse", it's still there in the fact that I immensely enjoy pleasing her by taking it. I enjoy pushing this and taking more and more pain-i-don't-really-like, even when it scares me or just plain fucking hurts like hell. *shrugs* Ain't much interested in figuring it out, I just know it works.

Not to say I don't like any pain at all, just the kinds that Ma'am tends to be most fond of can also be the ones I have the hardest time with. The enjoyment in taking pain doesn't necessarily have to come directly in the form of enjoying the actual pain itself. Some of us really get off on mind-fucks.

*edited to add...*

Which is also a big part of the reason WHY CP works for me. I don't even have that little mind-fuck of "I'm taking this for her pleasure" going on because I know she isn't enjoying punishing me and isn't doing it for her own pleasure. Hell, she may even be doing it because she's really pissed off and is taking it out on me. That IS ok for us. The pain involved in CP is punishing, it hurts in ways I can't process into other pleasures, and it really does entice me to avoid it again. It's effective, so we do it.

Great post, Serijules.

The most frequent answer I've received when asking Dominants why they choose corporal punishment is the statement I've colored red. They're pissed off at the transgression and it's a hell of a lot more satisfying to smack her ass than to just send her off to do some writing assignment.

The second most freqent response I've been given is that the submissive in question has a strong need to feel as if she atoned for the sin, so to speak, and she feels this atonement more completely if made to suffer genuine, non-pleasurable pain. The Dominant's sense of fulfillment comes from meeting this need while at the same time reinforcing his/her own sense of power and control. The intimacy borne of this encounter frequently leads to the kinky equivalent of the non-kinky world's spectacular "make-up sex".

 

[serijules]

Have been there more times than I wish to remember, and in some ways are still there with some activities. Like D, F tends to pick those things which are more difficult to process in terms of pain, partly because they are some of his favourites and partly ebcause he likes to know it is hurting beyond pleasureable in the usual sense. Why it changes I am not sure though for me I suspect it can be any number of things including skin being a little drier than usual, emotional sensitivity, other issues under the surface which I have not dealt with or perhaps mentioned to him. Hope you continue to find a way through this and even get back to the pleasure zone of before.

Catalina

At first it really bothered me, but I have found a way through it by realizing it really is ok to just accept it and take it and find the joy in that. If anything, the inability to enjoy the pain on the levels I used to makes it more intense for me.

I think a large part of the change is just the switch in the level of submission (or the PRESENSE of submission) with D. The times when I used to enjoy pain for the pain it was was also a time when submission wasn't a part of the deal. I can no longer sink into that deep subspace that helped me process the pain as being so pleasurable because that would mean taking my focus off what I am there for, to serve.

So it's not really something I look to gain back as I think gaining that back would mean sacrificing some of my focus. Not acceptable anymore

I'm like you though in that if there is something on my mind that I haven't talked to her about yet or dealt with...that for sure has an effect on my focus and thus, my pain tolerance, as to tiredness and health issues.

 

[serijules]

so we are not the only ones who do not find CP to be enjoyable for either party. i knew there was someone else out there LOL. you have it explained it much better than i ever could have and i agree 100% especially the last part about hurting in ways you cannot process into other pleasures and enticing you to avoide it again. very effective. and alot of it for me is in my mind to, in knowing that i have displeased Master..so yea..it works for us too

One of our reasonings for using CP also stem from the fact that both D and I were "spankos" when we first started out in the lifestyle (10 years ago for me, probably about 15 or 20 for her, not sure). That discipline dynamic is a big part of milder, less D/S-oriented spanko lifestyle that just stuck around even as we grew into more extreme interests because it always worked for us.

I know MANY MANY people (mostly spankos, as I call them) for whom discipline and CP are mostly just roleplays that both partners get off on and while they may pretend it is effective, I'm not sure why they claim that since the behaviour is constantly repeated, heh. We are often cast into that mold when I mention that CP is a part of our interaction. That really is ok though...we know what works for us, we know WHY it works, and there is absolutely no reason why anyone else's opinions or misconceptions on that should or will affect it. It IS fantastic when I share something and someone else says "hey, I understand that!", especially when it is someone that doesn't do CP or even agree with it. So I continue to share my experiences and thoughts on the subject for exactly that reason....every once in awhile I'll say something that will spark a lightbulb and one less mold will be cast the next time the subject comes up.

 

[serijules]

Great post, Serijules.

The most frequent answer I've received when asking Dominants why they choose corporal punishment is the statement I've colored red. They're pissed off at the transgression and it's a hell of a lot more satisfying to smack her ass than to just send her off to do some writing assignment.

The second most freqent response I've been given is that the submissive in question has a strong need to feel as if she atoned for the sin, so to speak, and she feels this atonement more completely if made to suffer genuine, non-pleasurable pain. The Dominant's sense of fulfillment comes from meeting this need while at the same time reinforcing his/her own sense of power and control. The intimacy borne of this encounter frequently leads to the kinky equivalent of the non-kinky world's spectacular "make-up sex".

That's very true. After a punishment, one of my rules is to not linger or dwell on the issue. Once the punishment is over, the transgression is forgiven, and we move on. If I still am not ready to let go, the punishment continues. That doesn't mean she keeps wailing on my ass until I just drop it....it means we talk and talk until the issue is resolved and I'm usually past the point of tears and words anymore. We hug, the brush is put away, the issue is done with. Atonement.

It's good for her too as you say because not only has she helped me learn or reinforce a lesson (aka, exercised her control/power) but she's gotten some of her OWN frustration of the situation out as well. When I disobey her, she's not pleased. She has her own set of emotions and reactions to the situation as well and needs to deal with them the same as I do. Spanking the hell out of someones backside with a really fucking hard wood brush is a GREAT way to deal with negative emotions, or so she claims <g> She can walk away from it knowing her point was made, I walk away reassured that despite a mistake, I'm still valued and wanted (which IS important to me and one of my vurlnerable areas), and we both walk away knowing we won't need to go down this path again. Forgive and forget (well, sort of, not enough to repeat the mistake!).

Even rare physical punishments that come about in a moment of anger have that eventual effect. It's an unspoken "not going to bed angry" thing.

 

[Pure]

note to JMoh,

i am a male. your postings are excellent, btw. why turn off both PM and email access? are you a hunted man? trolled?

pure
j.

 

[CutieMouse]

why turn off both PM and email access? are you a hunted man? trolled?

pure
j.

I was gonna say that my theory is that it's something about the whole being a sadist thing (it's rather frustrating to want to send a PM and realize you can't, because certain people don't do PMs or emails), but then I decided to not go there.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I personally DO NOT use CP in my relationship for behavior modification because it makes me much much hotter to just backhand someone because I feel like it. Because it IS unfair, completely without merit other than it makes him aroused and it makes me aroused. And the fact that I can and will do it because I feel like it is a reinforcement of power.

In a world of D/s contracts, I prefer at will employment.

This does not render me an antisocial uncaring or abusive person. I do it with grown men of their own volition. Men who have decided that the amount of control and power they want in relation to me is zero.

A situation that, from outside it looks remarkably abusive and one-sided.

You are like the female me.

 

[Marquis]

Rosco sighting!