Abortion is healthcare

[ghxstfac3z]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672241838856499201

 

[ghxstfac3z]

Appreciate the like, butters.

 

[ghxstfac3z]

Appreciate the like, adrina.

 

[RandyRebecca]

The Democrats didn't codify Roe v Wade into federal law when they had control of Congress and the Presidency. They too, like the Republicans, are delighted with the culture wars, thinking that removing Roe v Wade gets people to vote for them, i.e. a corporate party that is against the interests of ordinary Americans and wastes our federal taxes on wars across the globe and making the super rich even richer still.

 

[adrina]

The Democrats didn't codify Roe v Wade into federal law when they had control of Congress and the Presidency. They too, like the Republicans, are delighted with the culture wars, thinking that removing Roe v Wade gets people to vote for them, i.e. a corporate party that is against the interests of ordinary Americans and wastes our federal taxes on wars across the globe and making the super rich even richer still.

They, like the majority of the American electorate, took it for granted. You can blame the leaders, they do share responsibility however the majority of the responsibility lies at the door of the American non voter.

And yes I know you want to blame the politicians for everything while absolving the electorate that doesn't bother to be an electorate.

 

[Lazaran]

They, like the majority of the American electorate, took it for granted. You can blame the leaders, they do share responsibility however the majority of the responsibility lies at the door of the American non voter.

And yes I know you want to blame the politicians for everything while absolving the electorate that doesn't bother to be an electorate.

•
And to be fair; there never was enough DEMOCRATIC support at the time DEMOCRATS had a majority in the House, and 60 seats in the Senate, to codify Roe.

Manchin, for one, was never going to vote to codify Roe.

Far left radicals who make the claim that “Democrats” writ large failed to codify Roe when they had 60 seats in the Senate and control of the House, fail to realize that some “centrist” Democrats didn’t support the measure for various reasons.

Maybe that ^ will change if enough young people, women, and progressive men get out and vote in future elections.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Gallup’s latest survey data coincides with the one year anniversary. It was released just last week. Americans say abortion should be generally legal during the first three months of pregnancy, 69% to 24%. For the second three months the majority flips: 55% say illegal, and only 37% say legal. Among women, 52% oppose legal abortion in the second three months, while 40% support it. For those pushing a national policy, 12 to 15 weeks might be the politically plausible compromise that aligns with public opinion.

 

[RandyRebecca]

•
And to be fair; there never was enough DEMOCRATIC support at the time DEMOCRATS had a majority in the House, and 60 seats in the Senate, to codify Roe.

Manchin, for one, was never going to vote to codify Roe.

Far left radicals who make the claim that “Democrats” writ large failed to codify Roe when they had 60 seats in the Senate and control of the House, fail to realize that some “centrist” Democrats didn’t support the measure for various reasons.

Maybe that ^ will change if enough young people, women, and progressive men get out and vote in future elections.

The filibuster is a load of nonsense and an excuse for the Democrats to keep the stalemate. Joe Biden supports the filibuster when he could decide to oppose it. The filibuster is basically the Democrats' version of Roe v Wade before it was overturned. Republicans railed against abortion since Reagan while Roe v Wade was intact, and the Democrats support the filibuster while claiming to be on the side of ordinary Americans. Both were/are used as an excuse to keep the political stalemate.

 

[YDB95]

For those pushing a national policy, 12 to 15 weeks might be the politically plausible compromise that aligns with public opinion.

No, that would not be politically plausible. The right won't stop until they've put an end to safe, legal abortion, period.

 

[Lazaran]

The filibuster is a load of nonsense and an excuse for the Democrats to keep the stalemate. Joe Biden supports the filibuster when he could decide to oppose it. The filibuster is basically the Democrats' version of Roe v Wade before it was overturned. Republicans railed against abortion since Reagan while Roe v Wade was intact, and the Democrats support the filibuster while claiming to be on the side of ordinary Americans. Both were/are used as an excuse to keep the political stalemate.

•
https://www.axios.com/2022/06/30/biden-senate-filibuster-abortion-roe

Hope that ^ helps.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

No, that would not be politically plausible. The right won't stop until they've put an end to safe, legal abortion, period.

Fair enough. That’s just where public opinion shakes out. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The other reason a national 12 to 15 week policy might not be politically plausible is many on left won’t accept any restrictions - even after 15 weeks.

In the meantime, states are deciding. A year ago, many on both sides were anticipating about half the states would pass full or near full abortion bans. But as of now Guttmacher says only 14 states fit that category.

 

[YDB95]

Fair enough. That’s just where public opinion shakes out. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The other reason a national 12 to 15 week policy might not be politically plausible is many on left won’t accept any restrictions - even after 15 weeks.

We would if not for all the roadblocks the anti-choicers have spent decades throwing up (waiting periods, mandatory counseling, etc.) whose sole purpose is running out the clock on the 15 week mark.
The reality is, the demand for elective abortions after the first trimester is just about nonexistent - provided the woman knows she's pregnant and has the option to abort during the first trimester. Which was effectively not the case in many instances even before Dobbs.

 

[Lazaran]

No, that would not be politically plausible. The right won't stop until they've put an end to safe, legal abortion, period.

•
And what BabyBoobs omitted from that Gallup “POLL”:

• A record-high 69% say abortion should generally be legal in the first three months of pregnancy. The prior high of 67% was recorded last May after the Supreme Court’s Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization draft was leaked, showing that the court planned to nullify constitutional protection for abortion.
• Most Americans oppose abortion later in pregnancy, but the 37% saying it should be legal in the second three months of pregnancy and 22% in the last three months of pregnancy are the highest Gallup has found in trends since 1996.
• Gallup’s oldest trend on the legality of abortion finds 34% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances, nearly matching last year’s record-high 35% and above the 27% average since 1975. Another 51% currently say abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, while 13% (similar to the all-time low of 12%) want it illegal in all circumstances.
• Fifty-two percent of Americans say abortion is morally acceptable, matching last year’s all-time high. This is 10 percentage points above the historical average since 2001.

Hope that ^ helps.

BabyBoobs

 

[RandyRebecca]

Fair enough. That’s just where public opinion shakes out. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The other reason a national 12 to 15 week policy might not be politically plausible is many on left won’t accept any restrictions - even after 15 weeks.

Up to 24 weeks on demand is what it should be, in my opinion.

In the meantime, states are deciding. A year ago, many on both sides were anticipating about half the states would pass full or near full abortion bans. But as of now Guttmacher says only 14 states fit that category.

Which is a disgrace, forcing those views on people who don't agree with them. At the moment, it's 13 states that have illegalized abortion, Georgia has it at 6 weeks. And Wisconsin has no abortion providers, but is not officially illegal. This illegality of abortion in all those states most of all punishes financially poor women in the deep south who don't have the finances to travel to an area to get an abortion, increasing the likelihood of unsafe back alley abortions and increasing the risk of harm or death to the woman.

A federal law allowing abortion on demand in the first 24 weeks across the entire US is in everybody's interests except for those politicians and super rich capitalists who wish to divide us. Such a federal law would allow the women who want an abortion to get one, would allow the anti-abortion moralists not to have one, and it would end this issue as a culture war craze.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

•
And what BabyBoobs omitted from that Gallup “POLL”:

• A record-high 69% say abortion should generally be legal in the first three months of pregnancy. The prior high of 67% was recorded last May after the Supreme Court’s Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization draft was leaked, showing that the court planned to nullify constitutional protection for abortion.
• Most Americans oppose abortion later in pregnancy, but the 37% saying it should be legal in the second three months of pregnancy and 22% in the last three months of pregnancy are the highest Gallup has found in trends since 1996.
• Gallup’s oldest trend on the legality of abortion finds 34% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances, nearly matching last year’s record-high 35% and above the 27% average since 1975. Another 51% currently say abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, while 13% (similar to the all-time low of 12%) want it illegal in all circumstances.
• Fifty-two percent of Americans say abortion is morally acceptable, matching last year’s all-time high. This is 10 percentage points above the historical average since 2001.

Hope that ^ helps.

BabyBoobs

As you point out, only slightly more than a third are ok with abortion after the first trimester. About 12 to 15 weeks is where the majority falls.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Up to 24 weeks on demand is what it should be, in my opinion.


Which is a disgrace, forcing those views on people who don't agree with them. At the moment, it's 13 states that have illegalized abortion, Georgia has it at 6 weeks. And Wisconsin has no abortion providers, but is not officially illegal. This illegality of abortion in all those states most of all punishes financially poor women in the deep south who don't have the finances to travel to an area to get an abortion, increasing the likelihood of unsafe back alley abortions and increasing the risk of harm or death to the woman.

A federal law allowing abortion on demand in the first 24 weeks across the entire US is in everybody's interests except for those politicians and super rich capitalists who wish to divide us. Such a federal law would allow the women who want an abortion to get one, would allow the anti-abortion moralists not to have one, and it would end this issue as a culture war craze.

Except up to 24 weeks on demand is out of synch with where most Americans are on the question.

 

[Bn2f]

Fair enough. That’s just where public opinion shakes out. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The other reason a national 12 to 15 week policy might not be politically plausible is many on left won’t accept any restrictions - even after 15 weeks.

In the meantime, states are deciding. A year ago, many on both sides were anticipating about half the states would pass full or near full abortion bans. But as of now Guttmacher says only 14 states fit that category.

Could you please provide me clarification on what you mean by ‘fair enough’??? It would seem to me that you’re acknowledging the quiet part out loud that the end game is to ban all abortions.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Except up to 24 weeks on demand is out of synch with where most Americans are on the question.

I've never seen such a poll, and certainly not one that is reliable. Republican Kansas voted for abortion rights last year.

24 weeks in federal law caters to everyone except the divisive politicians.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Except up to 24 weeks on demand is out of synch with where most Americans are on the question.

Most Republicans 50 years ago believed abortion to be a private matter between the woman and her doctor, and not a place for the government to be. Yet today's Republicans are held captive by anti-choice fanatics and evangelicals.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Could you please provide me clarification on what you mean by ‘fair enough’??? It would seem to me that you’re acknowledging the quiet part out loud that the end game is to ban all abortions.

By “fair enough”, I meant that you had a valid argument. Many on the pro life side want to ban all abortions and many on the other side want abortion on demand without any restrictions. Given the composition of Congress, the chances of a national policy looks pretty low.

Most Americans are in the middle. About 12 to 15 weeks is where the clear majority fall.

 

[Bn2f]

Fair enough. That’s just where public opinion shakes out. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The other reason a national 12 to 15 week policy might not be politically plausible is many on left won’t accept any restrictions - even after 15 weeks.

In the meantime, states are deciding. A year ago, many on both sides were anticipating about half the states would pass full or near full abortion bans. But as of now Guttmacher says only 14 states fit that category.

Well, um, ok.
Pretty sure you’re probably feeling that you’re about to get ganged up upon, but my intention was only to thank you for your frank honesty on the matter. Have yourself a good night.

 

[Bn2f]

By “fair enough”, I meant that you had a valid argument. Many on the pro life side want to ban all abortions and many on the other side want abortion on demand without any restrictions. Given the composition of Congress, the chances of a national policy looks pretty low.

Most Americans are in the middle. About 12 to 15 weeks is where the clear majority fall.

Ok. Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I've never seen such a poll, and certainly not one that is reliable. Republican Kansas voted for abortion rights last year.

24 weeks in federal law caters to everyone except the divisive politicians.

Here is the Gallup story. The headline might cheer you up, but the actual results might not. They show that solid majorities support abortion rights in the first trimester but only slightly more than a third support abortion in the 2nd trimester and even less in the third.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/506759/broader-support-abortion-rights-continues-post-dobbs.aspx

 

[YDB95]

Here is the Gallup story. The headline might cheer you up, but the actual results might not. They show that solid majorities support abortion rights in the first trimester but only slightly more than a third support abortion in the 2nd trimester and even less in the third.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/506759/broader-support-abortion-rights-continues-post-dobbs.aspx

It's only fair to keep in mind, there is literally no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever had an elective third-trimester abortion. Not one in half a century that abortion was legal. You're mostly talking about people who've chosen a name for the baby, bought bedroom furniture for it, etc., and who then receive catastrophic news about the baby's health and viability. In those extreme circumstances, only the most heartless among us would oppose abortion.

 

[Chernosoth]

"Healthcare" in the US is insanely expensive. Letting docs monopolize abortion was the start of the restrictions.