A virgin question

[Louiselittle]

Not really a how to but......
If a girl has never been with a boy, only other girls doing 69 and used a strap on only for anal - would you say she is still a virgin or not - I know technically she is but whats your view??

 

[Nezhul]

Depends how you view it.

Purely technically, as you say yourself - she is.

In a broader sense, however, she's not. There are lesbian and gay people out there who never have heterosexual experience - and you can hardly call them virgins. You lose your virginity when you first have a complete sexual experience. It's up to you to decide what "complete" means. I leave this word only to account for cases like "giving handjob to a boy" - which hardly counts for losing virginity by anyone's standards, while still clearly being a sexual experience.
If said girl feels that her experiences with other girls were complete, that they were having sex - then she's not a virgin.

Lastly, you can divide virginity into forms. For example, you can be an Anal virgin - means you have had sex otherwise but never in the ass. Otherwise is applicable too. You can even divide between your homosexual and heterosexual virginity and treat them differently.

The girl in question can safely say that she's a virgin when it comes to heterosexual sex, especially if she never had any vaginal penetration. However she can also claim that she's not a virgin, because she already has sexual experiences. The best bet is to clarify, just to let partners know to be extra careful with any vaginal penetration - because hymen can still be there (some women don't have it or have it accidentally broken before they first have sex)

 

[Hypoxia]

Virginity: Big issue over a little tissue.

 

[pplwatching]

Why is this important to you? Whether or not someone cares depends on the kinds of people you're hanging out with.

At the end of the day it's both a word and a concept. Like most words its meaning is always changing. Depending on which definition you choose, whether your world view is influenced by cultural, social, and religious concepts, and even whether or not you just want to be a pedant you can call yourself whatever you want.

In the bigger picture I think we are products of all of our experiences in life. Our sexual experiences help shape us into who we are, and often influence our lives in unexpected ways. Our very biology is hard wired for sex, so we are influenced by sex from conception. The trick seems to be not letting sex influence us in ways that are to our detriment.

 

[fire_breeze]

Not really a how to but......
If a girl has never been with a boy, only other girls doing 69 and used a strap on only for anal - would you say she is still a virgin or not - I know technically she is but whats your view??

As pplwatching suggested, why is it that important? The concept of virginity (and no, this is not a debate on whether or not it is outdated or bullshit or controlling) is primarily a social one. Hell, even the etymology is contested, let alone its definition.

To reiterate pplwatching, what that concept means will be dependent on the peoples involved's understanding of the term: does it mean someone who is unmarried (pre 14th C, and German culture, for example)? One who has not had sexual intercourse, that is heterosexual penis in vagina (North American and Western European modernity)? Does oral sex count (in many American societies, it does not)? Virginity, despite what contemporary American sociologists like to promote, does not necessarily mean heterosexual intercourse. It can mean different things for different cultures, times, and peoples.

How you define virginity will absolutely be predicated on your social, cultural, religious (even if you yourself are not, and never have been, religious; the prevalent religion of your surroundings will most definitely inform you), even education and political environments.

So given the loaded concept, to ask again, why does it matter?

 

[Louiselittle]

Why does it matter? Thats a cool question - it only matters as I got into a philosophical debate and kinda went down the virgina = virgin route but then I got challenged so I simply want to examine my thinking and maybe inform debate.

 

[Angedesoleil]

It matters if it matters to the person.

It mattered to me. Not because of religion, societal norms, or anyone else, but because it was something that I was aware I was *robbed* of.
When I was in high school and it was something discussed I would reply that I was a " virgin of will". It mattered to me because it was a way to claim and come to terms with myself and my past.

I appreciate all of the opinions above, but the dismissive attitude is a bit much. If it doesn't matter to you, awesome. More power to you. It does matter to some others though, and not on flimsy pretense.

 

[tiny_tits]

Fuck labels.

 

[pplwatching]

I appreciate all of the opinions above, but the dismissive attitude is a bit much. If it doesn't matter to you, awesome. More power to you. It does matter to some others though, and not on flimsy pretense.

I think that context is important here. Louise is debating the academic nuances of whether or not someone who regularly and consensually enjoys a particular type of gender and sexual activity is a technically virgin. Her choice of sexual partners and acts seem to indicate her preferences and future sexual choices, which is much different than your situation. Louise doesn't say why her friend abstains from vaginal penetration, but the debate seems to be largely academic. If her friend is worried for some reason that she's not a virgin, or that she places some kind of value on the word then it seems that her behavior would be different.

 

[Angedesoleil]

While I can appreciate your differentiation, it does not change the fact three people seemed to imply that there was no logical, rational, or real reason to care. In essence, that it didn't matter. For many people there are very real, logical, rational reasons to care. Sure those reasons may be emotion based, but that makes them no less real and important. I understood the questions and responses on an academic basis, as well as implications for future not past choices. I also, however, understood the implications for others reading the thread. These discussions don't exist in isolation. Plenty of people read them then draw conclusions for their personal life. When we create a conversation around sexuality that says **anyone's** beliefs, thoughts, feelings, needs are less than logical or important then we do a disservice. If the person was asking the question then clearly the answer is important to them and the term carries weight *to them*, being dismissive of that isn't academic. I won't say what it is IMHO.

 

[Jada59]

To me, a virgin female is one who has an intact hymen. Sex may or may not be involved in that. Some women have a hymen reconstructed to appear that they are a virgin.

 

[coachdb18]

If you’re dressed only in a white robe, standing by an alter beside a guy about to cut your still beating heart out with a knife and throw you into a pit as a ‘sacrifice’, you’ll probably want to find somebody, ANYBODY, to fuck really really quickly!!!!

At THAT particular moment, virginity is hugely important. Otherwise, not so much.

 

[Louiselittle]

Thank you for your honest and balanced answer - I happen to think, religion, emotions, society, culture, social norms and much much more make up the answer - I guess I could ask - if a guy masterbates, is he still a 'virgin' (though study of correct use of the term will probaly be thrown at me!!) - but thank you again for including your own pain in the answer

It matters if it matters to the person.

It mattered to me. Not because of religion, societal norms, or anyone else, but because it was something that I was aware I was *robbed* of.
When I was in high school and it was something discussed I would reply that I was a " virgin of will". It mattered to me because it was a way to claim and come to terms with myself and my past.

I appreciate all of the opinions above, but the dismissive attitude is a bit much. If it doesn't matter to you, awesome. More power to you. It does matter to some others though, and not on flimsy pretense.

 

[just4friends]

Quite experienced... but.. virgin

 

[bone251]

Fuck labels.

So difficult.
Paper cuts are pain.

 

[curioustxn]

Not really a how to but......
If a girl has never been with a boy, only other girls doing 69 and used a strap on only for anal - would you say she is still a virgin or not - I know technically she is but whats your view??

Physically she is virgin. Psychologically, she is sexually experienced. Physically virgin means her hymen is still intact; however, is she uses tampons; her hymen is probably already ruptured. The rest is semantics.

 

[Louiselittle]

So there is Psychological - what the girl thinks
There is physiological - what has happened to the girl
There is a Sociological aspect in what society deems has happene to the girl
There is an Emotional response - from the girl and others
And there is Epistemological definition - the distinction between justified belief and opinion.

So really no one has a clue - there isn't a clear definition its only what anyone thinks and then its only what someone else thinks.

I think the girls opinion matters most - do you???

Thank you for the answers I've enjoyed reading them

 

[pplwatching]

I think the girls opinion matters most - do you???

I think that her actions are what matter most. She is free to hold whatever opinion that she wants. It seems to me that if she's engaging in consensual sexual activity in any form with other people then it seems contradictory for her to be of the opinion that she's a virgin. Actions would seem to speak much louder than personal opinions, but people's opinions are often contradictory to their actions.

My opinion comes from my own experience. I didn't have sex until I was 27. I started masturbating at least as early as the Lit minimum age tho . Not having sexual partners until I was ready was a personal choice, and 'being a virgin' meant nothing special to me so I didn't think about it much. When I eventually had sex with a girlfriend (I wasn't waiting for marriage) it was so completely different than anything that I'd imagined or experienced before that, in hindsight, I would say that I was a virgin until that time.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. For me, having put my penis inside of a vagina wasn't the definition of losing my virginity. I was a virgin with respect to how powerfully moving the experience would be emotionally. Sex with with my wife continues to take that to a whole new level, but the sexual act has always been less important than the intimate connection. Experiencing what it's like to have that kind of intimate connection and focus on another person was, in hindsight, when I lost it.

I think that personal responsibility and accountability is more important than opinions about definitions. It seems to me that our actions should be compatible with our convictions and opinions. If 'being a virgin' has personal value, then our choices and behavior should reflect the value that we place on being a virgin. We can of course split hairs over definitions, but at the end of the day if the word doesn't mean anything to us then it seems to follow that our opinion doesn't mean anything to us either. It seems that we would be better off spending our time focusing on issues that we consider to be important.

So, in a sense I think that as long as we're willing to accept the consequences of our choices then it doesn't matter what words and definitions we use.

 

[Nezhul]

So there is Psychological - what the girl thinks
There is physiological - what has happened to the girl
There is a Sociological aspect in what society deems has happene to the girl
There is an Emotional response - from the girl and others
And there is Epistemological definition - the distinction between justified belief and opinion.

So really no one has a clue - there isn't a clear definition its only what anyone thinks and then its only what someone else thinks.

I think the girls opinion matters most - do you???

Thank you for the answers I've enjoyed reading them

You are pretty much correct. But the same can be said about almost every aspect of society or human culture.

For example, when do you become an adult? At 18? How come you are considered a child one moment, but an hour later when midnight passes you are an adult? I know that I personally wasn't adult enough at 18.

Virgin is a label that essentially changes nothing, as people had said, and it is as important as it is important to YOU. You may glorify it or you may think it's totally ridiculous.

Personally, the only reason I would want to know if someone's a virgin is to be extra careful with penetration because hymen. Wouldn't want to hurt a girl more than necessary. It's not like it changes anything else about sex - it's not like you try extra hard to make it good for her, because frankly I think that as a man you should try extra hard every time.
I'm actually quite content that I didn't have a chance to take anyone's virginity. I don't have a fetish about that.

 

[Hypoxia]

Attitude. You're a maiden if you think you are. You needn't visit a Japanese virginity restoration surgeon to make it so, but such can boost your attitude.

Be what you want to be. You already are almost what you are going to be.

 

[Louiselittle]

So - maybe the anarchists view ??? Everyone does their own thing - wonder if that would work in Iran??

 

[Nezhul]

So - maybe the anarchists view ??? Everyone does their own thing - wonder if that would work in Iran??

COntrary to how it may seem, not all muslim are backwards and tribal. Some are very civilized, especially those living in big cities.

Also there is SO MANY cultures and subcultures that you'll grow old before wondering about them all. Not all of the most radical of them are in poor countries. Take for example US Amish society, as well as many other cults and secluded communities who sometimes have very unliberal views on things.

 

[curioustxn]

So - maybe the anarchists view ??? Everyone does their own thing - wonder if that would work in Iran??

I agree with Louiselittle. In the view of our peers, we are what society judges us to be. We only delude ourselves into believing we can choose our own title.