A very old lesbian with a new poem

[oggbashan]

I have posted a thread in the Author's Hangout -

This one

about a newly discovered poem by Sappho, the original lesbian (because she lived on the island of Lesbos).

The second post gives the English translation of the full text.

What do you think of it?

Og

 

[Angeline]

I have posted a thread in the Author's Hangout -

This one

about a newly discovered poem by Sappho, the original lesbian (because she lived on the island of Lesbos).

The second post gives the English translation of the full text.

What do you think of it?

Og

Thank you for this link! I have read some Sappho and I've tried to write in Sapphic verse. It's hard--an odd meter to fit in the number of feet allowed per line. I've read other poems by her I like more. Maybe this is not as good a translation as the ones I've seen. I imagine that now that it has been rediscovered there will be other translations.

Anybody know Greek? Lauren?

Thank you again Og. It's big poetry news.

Here's the poem so others can read it without even having to click on the link.


[[You for] the fragrant-blossomed Muses’ lovely gifts
[be zealous,] girls, [and the] clear melodious lyre:

[but my once tender] body old age now
[has seized;] my hair’s turned [white] instead of dark;

my heart’s grown heavy, my knees will not support me,
that once on a time were fleet for the dance as fawns.

This state I oft bemoan; but what’s to do?
Not to grow old, being human, there’s no way.

Tithonus once, the tale was, rose-armed Dawn,
love-smitten, carried off to the world’s end,

handsome and young then, yet in time grey age
o’ertook him, husband of immortal wife.

 

[The Mutt]

"Be zealous, girls."

Words of wisdom.


http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/trapped/wonderwoman.gif

 

[ishtat]

Re Sappho

I know that her name has become synonymous with lesbianism but was she a lesbian or did she merely come from Lesbos?

I thought that she was supposed to have drowned herself because of her rejection by a youth called Phaon.

 

[Equinoxe]

I know that her name has become synonymous with lesbianism but was she a lesbian or did she merely come from Lesbos?

I thought that she was supposed to have drowned herself because of her rejection by a youth called Phaon.

To my knowledge, there is no actual evidence that she was a lesbian in the sense of being solely sexually interested in women. She wrote a series of poems which appear to have a homoerotic quality to them, but that may be more a result of the nature of Ancient Greek language and religion.

As later Christian scholars looked back on her poems, they became fixated upon that seeming element and hence lesbian and sapphic/sapphist came to mean what they mean to the modern ear.

I don't believe there are any ancient Greek sources which identify her as such. According to available sources, she was married and had a daughter and went about those sort of expected things. That doesn't necessarily signify anything, but there is no historical evidence that she was gay and some things that suggest that she wasn't (like the story about her and Phaon which, while first appearing in Roman times centuries after her death, is significantly older than accounts of her lesbianism). Now, she may have been sexually attracted to women, that's entirely possible, but she appears to have also been interested in men.

Either way, in ancient Greek and Roman times, the isle of Lesbos was known for other sexual proclivities. Ones which lesbians, in the modern sense, decidedly do not take part in.

 

[Angeline]

To my knowledge, there is no actual evidence that she was a lesbian in the sense of being solely sexually interested in women. She wrote a series of poems which appear to have a homoerotic quality to them, but that may be more a result of the nature of Ancient Greek language and religion.

As later Christian scholars looked back on her poems, they became fixated upon that seeming element and hence lesbian and sapphic/sapphist came to mean what they mean to the modern ear.

I don't believe there are any ancient Greek sources which identify her as such. According to available sources, she was married and had a daughter and went about those sort of expected things. That doesn't necessarily signify anything, but there is no historical evidence that she was gay and some things that suggest that she wasn't (like the story about her and Phaon which, while first appearing in Roman times centuries after her death, is significantly older than accounts of her lesbianism). Now, she may have been sexually attracted to women, that's entirely possible, but she appears to have also been interested in men.

Either way, in ancient Greek and Roman times, the isle of Lesbos was known for other sexual proclivities. Ones which lesbians, in the modern sense, decidedly do not take part in.

Hi.

Ok, I have to get ready for work now...

 

[oggbashan]

Sappho

Much more about Sappho, but not her latest discovery, can be found here

Og

 

[Equinoxe]

Hi.

Ok, I have to get ready for work now...

Hello! She says twelve hours later.

I know, I never post over here, but given the opportunity to briefly opine about ancient history and sexuality, I had to take it.

 

[Angeline]

Hello! She says twelve hours later.

I know, I never post over here, but given the opportunity to briefly opine about ancient history and sexuality, I had to take it.

I dunno--it sounds like there's a poem in it to me. If you ever want to stick around and write some, we'll be sweet (mostly) but give you feedback--and then you can opine back. lol. some people like that. Me, for example.

 

[Equinoxe]

I dunno--it sounds like there's a poem in it to me. If you ever want to stick around and write some, we'll be sweet (mostly) but give you feedback--and then you can opine back. lol. some people like that. Me, for example.

I may indeed, I've actually been considering working on both poems and stories; also just generally expanding my posting on here, straying from the GB and the GLBT board.

 

[Angeline]

I may indeed, I've actually been considering working on both poems and stories; also just generally expanding my posting on here, straying from the GB and the GLBT board.

Well in that case, welcome. This is a pretty cool place--a little oasis, I like to think.

 

[Equinoxe]

Well in that case, welcome. This is a pretty cool place--a little oasis, I like to think.

Thank you very much, I shall definitely have to spend more time here.

 

[The_Fool]

Thank you very much, I shall definitely have to spend more time here.

You just have to watch out for monkeys, fools, fish and flying dildoes....


Not having studied it, but understanding that ancients looked at sex quite different than Puritanically bound moderns, did the concept of homosexuality really mean much? I'm sure that as today, one preferred male or female but weren't they more inclined to seek whatever path suited them on that specific day without worrying about labeling that act as homo- or heterosexual?

 

[Equinoxe]

You just have to watch out for monkeys, fools, fish and flying dildoes....

Oh no!

Not having studied it, but understanding that ancients looked at sex quite different than Puritanically bound moderns, did the concept of homosexuality really mean much? I'm sure that as today, one preferred male or female but weren't they more inclined to seek whatever path suited them on that specific day without worrying about labeling that act as homo- or heterosexual?

They were certainly more accepting of alternative sexuality than most of modern history has been and much less concerned about that sort of thing. There were still some expectations placed upon a person, of course, but there wasn't the moral component, not in the way that Western society has inherited it now at least.