A Very Important Question For NY And The Nation

[Marxist]

Are the Mets pitchers morally obligated to hit Roger Clemens at least once when he bats on Saturday?

This is a complex question.

 

[Marxist]

You chicks obviously need more info to correctly comment on this vital issue.

FROM THE NY POST:

June 12, 2002 -- BATTER up, Roger Clemens.
It's time to take your medicine like a man, and in your heart of hearts, you must know it.

It is called Baseball Justice, and the verdict in the baseball courtroom called Shea Stadium remains, two years later, guilty as charged for beaning Mike Piazza, and guilty to a lesser charge of hurling the jagged barrel of Piazza's bat in the direction of the Mets' star in the 2000 World

Piazza wisely did not charge the mound and damage his team with an ejection, but the Mets resembled lambs after that and the back page headline in this newspaper read: "Meek The Mets."

New York is waiting with breathless anticipation for the moment The Rocket steps into the batter's box in front of a crouching Piazza Saturday and waves his bat at Shawn Estes, if he is still in the game.

Dusty Baker has all but challenged the Mets to do something after Clemens lightheartedly joked about the possibility of hitting Barry Bonds for leaning that elbow pad over the plate and then plunking him on the right arm with impunity. Bob Watson is investigating.

The Mets do not have to go headhunting, because there is no place in the game for it, no matter what you think of Clemens. Only barbarians will be rooting for an ugly beanball war. But the Mets have to make some kind of intimidating statement, or they will have a serious credibility problem with their own bloodthirsty fans.

This is the statement they must make: Piazza is Our Franchise. No one messes with Our Franchise. It's the same statement the Yankees would make for Derek Jeter. So this is their chance to stand up to the bully.

And Clemens, as much as anyone in baseball, ought to understand the macho law of the jungle.

He isn't the only one allowed to pitch inside. He isn't the only one allowed to brush back.

And so yesterday, before the Yankees went out and beat the Diamondbacks for the second straight night, 6-4, Clemens stood at his locker and promised this: I will not be Roger The Dodger.

Clemens was asked yesterday whether he had reservations about batting at Shea Stadium.

"Uh, no," he said.

Why not?

"Why would I?"

Because there's talk that maybe . . .

"That's media-driven, too. That happened a long time ago, last time I checked, so I've got no problem with it."

Did you ask Joe [Torre] to pitch you at Shea?

"I never asked Joe to pitch me or not pitch me."

Joe tweaked the rotation so that you didn't have to pitch there last season.

"I don't believe that was the case. Again, I don't know where you got that from. I've taken the ball early, I've taken it late."

Then he chastised the media for blowing his pre-series comments about Bonds out of proportion.

"Next thing you know it's a threat, I guess," he said. "I've got enough to worry about getting people out and us trying to win ballgames and worrying about what we're trying to do here to worry about that. Comments about Mr. Valentine, what Bobby has to say, it does me no good to make any comments back towards that."

Torre hopes that the umpires do not issue a pregame warning to both sides.

"I don't have any control of that," Clemens said. "When I go out to pitch I'll go out to pitch to win the ballgame. Do what I have to do, pitch just like I've always pitched in the past. I won't change a thing, American League, National League . . . any league. Whatever."

Clemens was asked if he could understand why the issue might not be dead in Mets' eyes.

"I made all those comments a long time ago and that's way in the past."

Your comfort level as a batter?

"I'm a horrible hitter right now . . . I think what I need to do so I don't get fined is get a bunt down."

Then he went out and sprayed line drives all over Yankee Stadium.

Torre was asked if he regretted not re-arranging his rotation.

"No, because then instead of being an ogre, he'd have been a wimp," Torre said. "There are people who think that Roger is somebody out there who's just a headhunter, has no heart."

Were you one of them when he pitched for Toronto?

"He throws tight, he's intimidating," Torre said. "Back when I played, Vernon Law, they called him The Deacon. He'd knock you on your [butt] as soon as look at you. It's what you did. It didn't mean you wanted to hurt somebody."

Batter up, Roger Clemens.

 

[Rambling Rose]

Is there a mosquito in here?

 

[perks]

YES!

I'm vengeful and mean. You may call me GOD<the fundamentalist version>

BTW, I'm sooooo going to appreciate the spiritual discussion my inflammatory quip will cause in your sporty ball stick thing thread, Carlton.

edited because damn keyboard fairies keep switching my letters around

 

[Problem Child]

Baseball is a pussy sport.

 

[AzureAngel]

I'm going to have to agree with PC.

I've seen this in hockey and football, but those are blatant contact sports. In baseball, it somehow seems much less "macho" and far more pouty. Maybe because no one's getting freight trained. Toot toot!

 

[harleyhog]

so,,,,,who are the mets and what is a roger clemens ????

only sport that interests me is waterbed polo.

 

[Problem Child]

I'm going to have to agree with PC.

I've seen this in hockey and football, but those are blatant contact sports. In baseball, it somehow seems much less "macho" and far more pouty. Maybe because no one's getting freight trained. Toot toot!

The Boy is wise.

I say send "The Rocket" across the middle for a short pass and let him get speared by Ronnie Lott when he was in his heyday. Then we'll see how tough he is.

 

[Problem Child]

Is there a mosquito in here?

Chicks with depression era hairstyles and thick, heavy-rimmed spectacles quite frequently give me hard pulsating boners.

 

[nasty1]

Being a Yankee fan...NO!!!!!!! This whole feud thing is ridiculous. Did Roger mean to hit Piazza? I don't really think so. Did Roger know that when he throw the bat, it would come that close to hiting Piazza? Again, NO!!!!!!! If you watch that clip over & over,(like they DID, because, they NEED controvery,)you can clearly see "Rocket" isn't even paying attention at where he's throwing it. He just throw it, because, he didn't want it to hit him. Can ya blame em? That's just how I see it.

 

[AzureAngel]

I say send "The Rocket" across the middle for a short pass and let him get speared by Ronnie Lott when he was in his heyday. Then we'll see how tough he is.

The sign of someone who is disturbed: laughing out loud at the thought of ANYONE getting speared like that.

I've surely seen one too many "greatest hits" highlight reels.

 

[Marxist]

Baseball is a pussy sport.

Anybody remember what happened to Robin Ventura when he charged Nolan Ryan? Here's a reminder.

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/ryan/photos/poundhim.html

 

[Marxist]

http://users2.ev1.net/~mingster/photo/ventura.jpg

 

[JazzManJim]

Baseball is a pussy sport.

Nowadays, yeah it is.

Back in the 1960's, though, when Don Drysdale and Bob Gibson were on the mound, it was a stone-cold bitch being in the batter's box. They'd throw hard inside. They'd plunk you with a real fastball. They'd give you the chin music if you crowded them.

Hell, pitchers don't even have most of the inside half of the plate these days and the hitters just hang over it. Come in too close and you either get a warning or get thrown out.

Wimps.

 

[Marxist]

Jim, you can still hit the guy if you want to. The problem is that the batters are allowed to wear copious amounts of armor. My favorite baseball pussy:

http://www.scottsdalecards.com/psabb3107.jpg

HALL OF FAME PITCHER CITED FOR ASSAULT


OMAHA, Neb. (February 19, 2002 10:31 p.m. EST) - Hall of Fame pitcher Bob Gibson was cited for assault after a case of possible road rage.

Authorities said the situation started Friday in traffic in Omaha and ended about 10 miles away after a fist fight at an Interstate 80 gas station in Sarpy County.

Miguel Sanchez alleged Gibson pulled out from a car lot and cut him off in traffic. Sanchez admitted he retaliated and cut Gibson off but believed the altercation would end there.

"I learned a lesson," he said.

Both Gibson and Sanchez were cited Saturday for third-degree assault. They were expected in court March 20.

"I don't have any comment," Gibson said from his Bellevue home Tuesday. "It just doesn't do any good to talk about that kind of stuff."

Sanchez claimed Gibson followed him for more than 10 miles as he left Omaha and traveled west on Interstate 80.

When Sanchez stopped for gas, he said Gibson confronted him.

"I turned my back to reach for the nozzle ... that is when he hit me here and hit me here," Sanchez said, pointing to both eyes.

He also had a cut above one black-and-blue eye that he said required five stitches.

Gibson told authorities he followed Sanchez because he wanted the Omaha man to pay for his eyeglasses, which he said were broken when Sanchez cut him off in traffic. According to police records, Gibson also claimed the 45-year-old Sanchez swung first.

Sanchez said they continued to fight until it was broken up by another driver.

According to authorities, Gibson left the scene after the fight, and a witness wrote down his license plate number.

Gibson, 66, was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1981.

He won 20 games five times for St. Louis and posted a 1.12 ERA in 1968 - the lowest figure since 1914, and a factor in convincing baseball officials to lower the pitching mound the next year.

Gibson holds World Series records of seven consecutive wins and 17 strikeouts in a game.

 

[Joe Adcock]

If Roger Clemens calls John Gotti a pussy to his face...

I have known several major league ball players, and can contact many others through work I've done with a video game company. I can arrange for you to tell them they play a pussy sport to their faces, tiny Jim, PC, et al. Are you interested? Would you like to call Jay Buhner a pussy? Would you even be willing to tell Chuck Finley's fucking WIFE he's a pussy? I'll make sure to give Jay -- or Tawny -- a few beers to give them the proper suspension of personal accountability to approximate the conditions under which these posts are written....

I was actually talking about the development of the current situation last night with some other baseball fans. The first and greatest pro-hitter movement took place in the 1920s, when the so-called "rabbit" or cork-center ball was introduced, and at the same time, spit, shine and scuff balls were officially made illegal in the major leagues. Babe Ruth responded with a 54 home run season, doubling his own previous record for a single campaign.

From that moment on, pitchers fought to recover their previous advantages, and went well beyond them by embracing new breaking balls like the slider and the screwball, the knuckleball, the "slurve", and finally the forkball or split-finger fastball which came to dominate baseball in the 1980s. About 80% of all closers in the major leagues since 1981 have thrown the forkball as their out pitch. Steps to improve the hitters lot once more, such as creating the designated hitter rule, lowering the pitcher's mound, and feeding hitters large handfulls of anabolic steroids, have all produced temporary changes in the general trend, but for over 60 years, the pitchers have been catching back up.

And pitchers did once rely on pitching inside a great deal more than they do now, both because it was difficult for many hitters to get the head of the bat on an inside pitch, and because it made hitters reluctant to perch on the plate and dive for the ball outside. But many hitters, especially left-handed power hitters, have become quite adept at swinging early and driving the inside pitch over the right field wall. And today hitters are so strong that they can swing late and "inside-out" the ball over the opposite field fence. As a result, for the past 20 years the most successful pitchers seem to be the ones who do one of two things -- pitch breaking balls that pass so far outside or low that no one can hit them fair, or else they change the speed of their pitches well enough to make hitters swing and miss. Throwing inside to move the hitter off the plate, and possibly set up the slider on the outside corner, is still a valid tactic, but when you puff out your chest and strut around like a big, dumb bully as Clemens does, you attract attention to its use. Pedro Martinez and Bartolo Colon do it all the time, but no pays much attention to it anymore.

People still get hit all the time, as pitchers can't control their delivery worth a damn. Last night in the case of Atlanta Braves v. Minnesota Twins (Significant precedent includes Kelly v. Cox, 1991), the Twins' pitcher was almost out of control, and plunked several Atlanta hitters. They issued a warning at one point, but then when the guy did it again, he was so clearly unable to control where the ball went that the Ump "forgot" to throw him out of the game. The Braves' broadcasters didn't stop talking about for at least three innings.

There is an excellent Robert Coover short story in a recent issue of Playboy about a pitcher who loses a perfect game when he fatally skulls the hitter who has been fucking his wife.

Which moves me to see if anyone is actually paying attention anymore. Why are Mike Kekich and Fritz Peterson the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball? Please phrase your answer in the form of a Sestina.

 

[fanzee1]

Are the Mets pitchers morally obligated to hit Roger Clemens at least once when he bats on Saturday?

This is a complex question.

As a longtime Mets fan, I can honestly say that I don't give a damn whether the Mets bean Clemens. Yeah, it'd be kinda funny if they did but the Mets blew their opportunity to stand up for themselves in the face of Clemens and the Yankees when they never retaliated for Clemens throwing a broken bat at Piazza in the World Series. They backed down and the Yankees intimidated them the rest of the series. Nothing they do now can make up for that. The time has passed. The Mets just need to forget about all of that and worry about winning ball games, lest they lose the nl east to a very average Atlanta Braves team YET AGAIN.

 

[fanzee1]

I'm going to have to agree with PC.

I've seen this in hockey and football, but those are blatant contact sports. In baseball, it somehow seems much less "macho" and far more pouty. Maybe because no one's getting freight trained. Toot toot!

baseball is hardly a pussy sport. It takes a warrior to be a major leaguer because the grind is relentless. Really people, let us not degenerate into "my favorite sport is more mainly than yours" nonsense. We're better than that aren't we? (don't bother answering PC)

 

[fanzee1]

Being a Yankee fan...NO!!!!!!! This whole feud thing is ridiculous. Did Roger mean to hit Piazza? I don't really think so. Did Roger know that when he throw the bat, it would come that close to hiting Piazza? Again, NO!!!!!!! If you watch that clip over & over,(like they DID, because, they NEED controvery,)you can clearly see "Rocket" isn't even paying attention at where he's throwing it. He just throw it, because, he didn't want it to hit him. Can ya blame em? That's just how I see it.

pffffft, yankee fans. I'm sure in your mind, they have never done anything wrong. Roger did what he did for whatever reason but he did it on purpose. Everything was right there in front of him, what are you arguing that he suddenly just went blind? Like I said though, the time to retaliate for that has passed. The Mets need to worry about hitting Clemens' pitches now, not him.

 

[Guest]

There are alternatives...

Baseball is a pussy sport.

____________

Yes, we should instead focus on something more universal, wordly,... and MANLY, like...

Soccer.

 

[fanzee1]

Re: If Roger Clemens calls John Gotti a pussy to his face...

I have known several major league ball players, and can contact many others through work I've done with a video game company. I can arrange for you to tell them they play a pussy sport to their faces, tiny Jim, PC, et al. Are you interested? Would you like to call Jay Buhner a pussy? Would you even be willing to tell Chuck Finley's fucking WIFE he's a pussy? I'll make sure to give Jay -- or Tawny -- a few beers to give them the proper suspension of personal accountability to approximate the conditions under which these posts are written....

I was actually talking about the development of the current situation last night with some other baseball fans. The first and greatest pro-hitter movement took place in the 1920s, when the so-called "rabbit" or cork-center ball was introduced, and at the same time, spit, shine and scuff balls were officially made illegal in the major leagues. Babe Ruth responded with a 54 home run season, doubling his own previous record for a single campaign.

From that moment on, pitchers fought to recover their previous advantages, and went well beyond them by embracing new breaking balls like the slider and the screwball, the knuckleball, the "slurve", and finally the forkball or split-finger fastball which came to dominate baseball in the 1980s. About 80% of all closers in the major leagues since 1981 have thrown the forkball as their out pitch. Steps to improve the hitters lot once more, such as creating the designated hitter rule, lowering the pitcher's mound, and feeding hitters large handfulls of anabolic steroids, have all produced temporary changes in the general trend, but for over 60 years, the pitchers have been catching back up.

And pitchers did once rely on pitching inside a great deal more than they do now, both because it was difficult for many hitters to get the head of the bat on an inside pitch, and because it made hitters reluctant to perch on the plate and dive for the ball outside. But many hitters, especially left-handed power hitters, have become quite adept at swinging early and driving the inside pitch over the right field wall. And today hitters are so strong that they can swing late and "inside-out" the ball over the opposite field fence. As a result, for the past 20 years the most successful pitchers seem to be the ones who do one of two things -- pitch breaking balls that pass so far outside or low that no one can hit them fair, or else they change the speed of their pitches well enough to make hitters swing and miss. Throwing inside to move the hitter off the plate, and possibly set up the slider on the outside corner, is still a valid tactic, but when you puff out your chest and strut around like a big, dumb bully as Clemens does, you attract attention to its use. Pedro Martinez and Bartolo Colon do it all the time, but no pays much attention to it anymore.

People still get hit all the time, as pitchers can't control their delivery worth a damn. Last night in the case of Atlanta Braves v. Minnesota Twins (Significant precedent includes Kelly v. Cox, 1991), the Twins' pitcher was almost out of control, and plunked several Atlanta hitters. They issued a warning at one point, but then when the guy did it again, he was so clearly unable to control where the ball went that the Ump "forgot" to throw him out of the game. The Braves' broadcasters didn't stop talking about for at least three innings.

There is an excellent Robert Coover short story in a recent issue of Playboy about a pitcher who loses a perfect game when he fatally skulls the hitter who has been fucking his wife.

Which moves me to see if anyone is actually paying attention anymore. Why are Mike Kekich and Fritz Peterson the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball? Please phrase your answer in the form of a Sestina.

The only part of that I disagree with is your statement about Bartolo Colon. He still doesn't throw inside enough (i live just outside Cleveland).

 

[Problem Child]

Re: If Roger Clemens calls John Gotti a pussy to his face...

I have known several major league ball players, and can contact many others through work I've done with a video game company. I can arrange for you to tell them they play a pussy sport to their faces, tiny Jim, PC, et al. Are you interested? Would you like to call Jay Buhner a pussy? Would you even be willing to tell Chuck Finley's fucking WIFE he's a pussy? I'll make sure to give Jay -- or Tawny -- a few beers to give them the proper suspension of personal accountability to approximate the conditions under which these posts are written....

I think you need to settle down a little Joe. You strike me as a big pussy.

 

[Marxist]

Re: Re: If Roger Clemens calls John Gotti a pussy to his face...

I think you need to settle down a little Joe. You strike me as a big pussy.

Hey, leave Joe alone. He rambles like Uncle Bill given a dose of common sense, a brain, and a new vocabulary. Me like.

 

[fanzee1]

Re: Re: If Roger Clemens calls John Gotti a pussy to his face...

I think you need to settle down a little Joe. You strike me as a big pussy.

what do the sopranos have to do with this?