A tricky question

[WillowPuss]

I wonder if anyone could please take the time to give me any help on this ...

Background:
I visit a nilla message board. During one of the (ohhh so frequent) flame wars recently, an aquaintance (a friend, but NOT a close one) posted about why she had finally fled her marital home three years ago.
The abuse she suffered was quite terrible. I wrote her a mail, because whilst I was reading the board I was also chatting to another quite (unrelated friend), who used to be with law enforcement before she retired. My conversation dried up as I read the post and my voice chat friend wanted to know what was wrong.

Cutting to the question:
The Law enforcement friend thought she MAY be able to help friend 1. I got friend 1's permission to send friend 2 the post.
Friend 2 said it didn't ring quite true as why would ANYONE put up with such things for so long.

HOWEVER ... looking again at friend 1's post - where she mentions things like rituals etc ... makes me wonder IF it may have been a SM relationship gone badly wrong.

FINALLY - THE QUESTION:
a) should I broach the subject of BDSM with friend 1?
b) How do I raise the question?


Thanks in advance ... just for reading this, even if you don't post.

willow

 

[Lancecastor]

I wonder if anyone could please take the time to give me any help on this ...

Background:
I visit a nilla message board. During one of the (ohhh so frequent) flame wars recently, an aquaintance (a friend, but NOT a close one) posted about why she had finally fled her marital home three years ago.
The abuse she suffered was quite terrible. I wrote her a mail, because whilst I was reading the board I was also chatting to another quite (unrelated friend), who used to be with law enforcement before she retired. My conversation dried up as I read the post and my voice chat friend wanted to know what was wrong.

Cutting to the question:
The Law enforcement friend thought she MAY be able to help friend 1. I got friend 1's permission to send friend 2 the post.
Friend 2 said it didn't ring quite true as why would ANYONE put up with such things for so long.

HOWEVER ... looking again at friend 1's post - where she mentions things like rituals etc ... makes me wonder IF it may have been a SM relationship gone badly wrong.

FINALLY - THE QUESTION:
a) should I broach the subject of BDSM with friend 1?
b) How do I raise the question?


Thanks in advance ... just for reading this, even if you don't post.

willow

Interesting question.

A number of things to think about based on my reading of your note:

First, given that BBS environments are anonymous, you should keep in mind that Your level of sincerity and honesty is likely not the same as Friend 1 or Friend 2's...that is, one might not really be a law enforcement person, and the other may not really be a woman in or having ended an abusive relationship. The Cop could be a freak that likes abuse victimes and the victim could be a garden variety loser that blames the world for her problems. Or they could both be 14 year old boys jerking off in mommy's basement, or one 14 year old boy, etc etc etc. Point is that people lie on anonymous BBS', for all kinds of reasons from innocent to wrong to wierd.

Second, connecting (with consent) Friend 1 & Friend 2, if all elements and people are true and real, is enough in terms of discharging any duty, moral or otherwise, to "help", as the troubled person is now in contact with the law;

Third, bringing up BDSM on a board which sounds like an ordinary "bullshitter's board", reflects on You, which, regardless if the people involved are genuine OR fakes, could impact negatively on You and your real life;

Fourth, the alleged events of Her story ended three years ago; she is in no clear and present danger... if her story is true;

Fifth, if you think there could be a BDSM future of some kind with You and Her, you should work towards meeting her for coffee in public and see for yourself how real she is, (if that's your question, ) then bring up bdsm (or not)....as opposed to posting or mailing it, given the circumstances outlined by you.

Sixth, Keep in mind that in having connected Her to a Cop, anything you say to Her could wind up in the Cop's mailbox. Also...Police agencies in my country troll bdsm and sex chat rooms, boards, etc, looking for pedophiles, abusers and such by posing as this or that. Possibly the same goes on where you live. I obviously have no knowledge of you, your life, what you do, what's technically legal or not in your area, etc.

Summary: You really don't and can't know if any of what you've seen and read is real, genuine, etc. Take care.

Postscript: I recently read a post in which someone said he felt like killing himself that day. The words were chilling to me. I PM'd and wrote the person. No response. I reported the post. No response. Next day, the person was happlily posting again. I wrote. Blithe response. Perhaps I never should have written; perhaps I should have. I'll never know. C'est la vie.

Lesson?: BBS environments are not "real". They are, often as not, outpourings of collective and individual angst of one sort and another. You, for example, could just as easily be a loon sitting somewhere getting jollies from the time and emotional capital I have invested in this note. Personally, I often wonder if these places help bring people together....or merely harden their hearts further.


Cheers;
Lance

 

[WillowPuss]

Thanks Lance.

What you say is perfectly true, of course. I can't KNOW if what I read is true or not, from either 'friend'.

I suppose I am just too trusting? I tend to take people at their word. I think because I am such an open person, I expect everyone to be the same. I guess I am lucky that I have not been badly hurt (well, other than emotionally) in the past.

I have put friend 1 in contact with friend 2 ... and as you say, it is really now out of my hands. Maybe I shouldn't have done anything ... but felt I just couldn't sit here and do nothing.

I doubt if I will ever meet either in R/L. One lives in TN, the second in AZ amd I am in Britain.

Thanks again for you post. (I did PM my thanks, but it seem to be bounced back to me?)

 

[cymbidia]

Lesson?: BBS environments are not "real". They are, often as not, outpourings of collective and individual angst of one sort and another. You, for example, could just as easily be a loon sitting somewhere getting jollies from the time and emotional capital I have invested in this note. Personally, I often wonder if these places help bring people together....or merely harden their hearts further.

You're still relatively new to us, Lance, for all that you appear extremely comfortable here, so perhaps you don't know this one yet for sure: here, we're real. Here, we're a true community. Here, individually, we help others who are moving in generally the same direction on this lesser-known BDSM side street, a road that runs parallel to Life's Main Sexuality highway. Here our efforts work to bring people together, Lance, most definitely, not to harden thier hearts.

 

[Lancecastor]

Well...

You're still relatively new to us, Lance, for all that you appear extremely comfortable here, so perhaps you don't know this one yet for sure: here, we're real. Here, we're a true community. Here, individually, we help others who are moving in generally the same direction on this lesser-known BDSM side street, a road that runs parallel to Life's Main Sexuality highway. Here our efforts work to bring people together, Lance, most definitely, not to harden thier hearts.

...yes, there is indeed a community of real people here, or at least a fair number of players consistent to their character over time. ;-)

Yes, of course it's a community like any other....with an active core on Town Council who show up at every meeting and speak with passion on every topic and Believe always...and ordinary citizens that pop in and out with less fervour for and interest in the governance of the Community.

Though Lance is new here and the names, threads and avs at Lit have changed over the years, I'm not all that new and I sometimes suspect that some who speak with what I think of as "calm knowledge" here might be some of the same people I knew before.

From that perspective, you could be the new one for all we know.

Anyway...My comments you've quoted weren't intended to have universal application, obviously.

However, the fact remains that it is an anonymous enviro, which alters behavior and perception in all manner of ways, in all directions.

That being said, I think my response to WP was reasoned and sound.

My broader question stands....I do wonder whether anonymity's ability to allow people to speak openly about things they might not otherwise speak of also prevents a certain level of genuine closeness or connection from being attained.

There is no standard or generally accepted model for online social behavior. Perhaps that is the standard...that there is no standard.

With that in mind, I tend to lean towards a different pre-disposition towards others from time to time than I might IRL, which thereby makes me seem different online than off.

Cheers;
Lance

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Well...

Though Lance is new here and the names, threads and avs at Lit have changed over the years, I'm not all that new and I sometimes suspect that some who speak with what I think of as "calm knowledge" here might be some of the same people I knew before.

From that perspective, you could be the new one for all we know.

I am as i appear, Lance. I registered at Lit for the first time on the date my profile indicates, though i wandered around the stories unregistered for a long time before i found the forums. I’ve never been anyone here but myself; i’ve never been anyone online but myself, really. I don’t get into role playing games, not much in skin-to-skin play, and doing it online has even less appeal for me. If that means i’m new in your eyes, so be it.

My broader question stands....I do wonder whether anonymity's ability to allow people to speak openly about things they might not otherwise speak of also prevents a certain level of genuine closeness or connection from being attained.

Of course we can speak more openly in this environment than we could if we were all sitting around together sipping lattes or sharing a good bottle of Merlot. Such isn’t even open to debate. Of course we’re all more open, in all ways I think, in this environment, a place where we can go read a book or take a walk or turn on the ‘toons if we get upset/bored/hurt feelings/anything else.

And closeness is fostered in a very swift fashion here, too, as we all know. It’s as if having access to someone else’s innermost thoughts allows an intimacy that one has to spend a lot more time evolving in that coffeeshop setting. Is that closeness real? Is only the other kind real? What’s real?

Having been online for 10+ years, and having lived all 45 years of my offline life (except the month i was in a coma as a result of being a 16 year old reckless driver), i can say this: both kinds of closeness and friendships are valid and real. Many (most?) “net friendships” fall away very quickly, it is true, but some remain true and of importance. I’ve got a friend in Toronto, a woman i met within a couple months of my very first and exceedingly tentative explorations into the net life. She’s been to my house. She knows my kids. I know about her life. Here at Lit, i’ve logged hours and hours and hours on the phone with both Risia and Muff. I know them. They know me. I know thier spouses and families; they know mine. I know their dreams and hopes and plans and hurting secrets. They are my friends, real and true.

The attainability of genuine closeness or connection with the others around you in a place like this is a function, i think, of the reality quotient you put into your “self” here. If you’re real, you attract others who are real, too, i believe, and so real friendships can be formed.

Like all facets of a person’s life, one gets from any given situation/encounter what they give. Why should that be less true here, inside net relationships?

There is no standard or generally accepted model for online social behavior. Perhaps that is the standard...that there is no standard.

With that in mind, I tend to lean towards a different pre-disposition towards others from time to time than I might IRL, which thereby makes me seem different online than off.

There is no standard, no. Even within the embrace of offline social interactions, though, there is wide variance for what’s acceptable behavior. Offline, everything depends on what the situation is (formal wedding vs. day at the beach with friends), who is there (Grandma Pearl and her dog Pokey vs. the small group of co-workers with whom you’re the most friendly) or why you’re gathering (Christmas Dinner vs. standing in line for hot dogs at the Giants game).

So it is with online interactions. BDSM-type chat rooms, for example, anywhere on the net, are very different in acceptable social behavior then we are here – for all that we’re both (nominally, at least) BDSM in flavor.

There is a standard for online interactions, it’s simply less defined, more relaxed. It’s true, however, that there’s a LOT more room for creeps and freaks and perverts and abusers (and i don’t mean any of those words in a complimentary fashion, either) in net places, and so, within the embrace of net friendships. I’m not blind, nor am i a Pollyanna.

I believe, though, that like people everywhere, most online people are good, most online people are as they present themselves. I believe that the making of new friends, offline and on, is entirely within the realm of everyday possibility. For all that i am a bit different here then in my offline life, i've made real friends online, Lance, friends that became integral parts of my everyday life, online and off. I think you must have, too.

A good day to you, Lance.

 

[Lancecastor]

Our online experiences...

...have been very similar, as are our ages and time online.

I too have made several genuine friends online ...people I rarely email anymore, because we pick up the phone or meet for dinner, etc.

And I seek real life connection, using the net as a facilitator as opposed to an alternate reality or game/hobby.

But others treat the medium differently for a vast array of reasons.

Which is fine.

It just makes me wonder how to separate the wheat from the chaff sometimes, that's all.



Cheers;
L